[Bbc14f]

Originally Posted by madmortar

So... they basically stole $900 from you and sent you on your way only to breakdown and have to come back

Pretty much; it just adds to the frustration.

[natesi]

You diagnosed the issue before arriving, they misdiagnosed the issue, then bilked you out of $900 -- some of which included an unnecessary software update.

I'd say it's on them. The engine could have been salvaged when you brought it in, originally.

And now....? I'm surprised they are only saying $5500. Is that for a new engine? Other people were quoted three to four times that.

Either way, it's not your fault.

[Bbc14f]

Originally Posted by natesi

You diagnosed the issue before arriving, they misdiagnosed the issue, then bilked you out of $900 -- some of which included an unnecessary software update.

I'd say it's on them. The engine could have been salvaged when you brought it in, originally.

And now....? I'm surprised they are only saying $5500. Is that for a new engine? Other people were quoted three to four times that.

Either way, it's not your fault.

Originally Posted by natesi

You diagnosed the issue before arriving, they misdiagnosed the issue, then bilked you out of $900 -- some of which included an unnecessary software update.

I'd say it's on them. The engine could have been salvaged when you brought it in, originally.

And now....? I'm surprised they are only saying $5500. Is that for a new engine? Other people were quoted three to four times that.

Either way, it's not your fault.

As far as I know everything else is fine, the service representative just mentioned there was slack in the timing chain and that it needs to be replaced.

[etinifni]

I've never heard of a loose timing chain that hasn't grenaded an engine causing limp mode. That being said $5,500 is almost double what mine cost (covered under CPO). My posts are earlier in this thread but basically a tech heard the notorious whine while I was getting my OFH recall done and a PUMA case was opened.

[Bbc14f]

Originally Posted by etinifni

I've never heard of a loose timing chain that hasn't grenaded an engine causing limp mode. That being said $5,500 is almost double what mine cost (covered under CPO). My posts are earlier in this thread but basically a tech heard the notorious whine while I was getting my OFH recall done and a PUMA case was opened.

What is PUMA?

[Delija]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=349739

[turbocomppro]

I've been following this thread and it's really scarring me. I went back and reread a few pages but I don't recall anyone having this issue (at least not yet due to low mileage and age) for a mid 2015 produced N26. Has this problem been fixed on the newer cars?

On a personal note: Who the F**K thought it was good idea to use plastic in an engine with hot oil? I mean doesn't heat = bad for any plastics? Especially on such a critical component? What were they thinking?

[Gamb1t]

I believe VAG cars use plastic chain guides too.
There are many engine components that are made with plastics. I think it comes down to design.

[turbocomppro]

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

I believe VAG cars use plastic chain guides too.
There are many engine components that are made with plastics. I think it comes down to design.

Plastic outside the engine for non critical parts like connectors, wire holders, and are easily inspected and replaceable (so I can do a preemptive strike), cool.

Inside the engine where heat typically degrades plastics no matter how high the grade, on a critical part that if it breaks it grenades the engine, not easily replaceable nor inspected, not cool.

[etinifni]

Originally Posted by turbocomppro

Plastic outside the engine for non critical parts like connectors, wire holders, and are easily inspected and replaceable (so I can do a preemptive strike), cool.

Inside the engine where heat typically degrades plastics no matter how high the grade, on a critical part that if it breaks it grenades the engine, not easily replaceable nor inspected, not cool.

If that is the case than there would or will potentially be an insane number of BMW's with failing engines. On the other hand BMW has historically used plastic in a lot of high heat areas, i.e. e36 radiator, n20 OFH.

[turbocomppro]

Originally Posted by etinifni

If that is the case than there would or will potentially be an insane number of BMW's with failing engines. On the other hand BMW has historically used plastic in a lot of high heat areas, i.e. e36 radiator, n20 OFH.

There aren't an insane a number of smokers dying, but that doesn't mean it's good for you.

A radiator or OFH or most things outside the engine itself is considered non critical. If those break, they are inexpensive and quite easily replaceable. They certainly wouldn't grenade your engine. And you'll likely have plenty of early warnings (sudden low water level or oil/antifreeze on your driveway) to prevent being stuck on the side of the road or have a catastrophic engine failure.

Sure the number of failures hasn't been insane, but the repair cost sure is. Worst is that they are lasting just outside of the warranty period so people are stuck with forking the bill or fighting an uphill battle against BMW to cover some of the costs.

From what I've read on the other forums, the only warning you MAY get is a whining noise coming from the front of the engine and it changes pitch with throttle position. This is caused by slack on the timing chain. This may indicate that the tensioner is broken.

[etinifni]

Originally Posted by turbocomppro

There aren't an insane a number of smokers dying, but that doesn't mean it's good for you.

A radiator or OFH or most things outside the engine itself is considered non critical. If those break, they are inexpensive and quite easily replaceable. They certainly wouldn't grenade your engine. And you'll likely have plenty of early warnings (sudden low water level or oil/antifreeze on your driveway) to prevent being stuck on the side of the road or have a catastrophic engine failure.

Sure the number of failures hasn't been insane, but the repair cost sure is. Worst is that they are lasting just outside of the warranty period so people are stuck with forking the bill or fighting an uphill battle against BMW to cover some of the costs.

From what I've read on the other forums, the only warning you MAY get is a whining noise coming from the front of the engine and it changes pitch with throttle position. This is caused by slack on the timing chain. This may indicate that the tensioner is broken.

Oh mine was caught before it grenaded the engine, so I understand. I am just saying that there are probably millions of n20's on the road now. If the plastic was really an issue the number of failures would be a lot higher.

[chums]

Thread scares me hearing about the plastics. I'm actually getting a burned plastic smell from my car lately. Hope it's just a plastic bag that got caught on my exhaust system.

[turbocomppro]

Originally Posted by etinifni

Oh mine was caught before it grenaded the engine, so I understand. I am just saying that there are probably millions of n20's on the road now. If the plastic was really an issue the number of failures would be a lot higher.

You're probably one of the lucky ones that the broken pieces of plastic did not fell between the chain and sprocket as you're driving down the freeway at 65mph.

Point is, that part shouldn't be breakable that easily. It should of been made like the valves and cams and connecting rods. Under normal conditions, those parts should last the life of the engine.

Thing is, it isn't even the guide itself (the part that's putting actual pressure on the chain) that's breaking. It's the supporting housing with thin plastic pieces that's breaking. I don't understand why that couldn't be made with metal other then to save cost.

[Bbc14f]

Originally Posted by Bbc14f

As far as I know everything else is fine, the service representative just mentioned there was slack in the timing chain and that it needs to be replaced.

Update:

They replaced the timing chain but the drivetrain malfunction light is still on. I will go ballistic if they try to tack on another 5 grand.

[RobbCory]

So last Thursday while driving in town I got the Drivetrain malfunction warning, followed by the low oil pressure light. I pulled off the road and called BMW service and they had a tow truck come pick it up and take it to the dealership. Dealership is saying that the oil timing chain is "stretched" and that the oil pumped stopped working. The dealership has been helpful at this point and are working with BMW NA for resolution. He quoted me $1200 to just diagnose it, $5K to replace timing chain and pump and if it ruined the valves or cylinder walls due to no oil, could be $20k for a new engine.

I have a 2012 328i with 57,000 miles.

[madmortar]

Originally Posted by RobbCory

So last Thursday while driving in town I got the Drivetrain malfunction warning, followed by the low oil pressure light. I pulled off the road and called BMW service and they had a tow truck come pick it up and take it to the dealership. Dealership is saying that the oil timing chain is "stretched" and that the oil pumped stopped working. The dealership has been helpful at this point and are working with BMW NA for resolution. He quoted me $1200 to just diagnose it, $5K to replace timing chain and pump and if it ruined the valves or cylinder walls due to no oil, could be $20k for a new engine.

I have a 2012 328i with 57,000 miles.

Holy shit wtf this sucks!!!

Keep us posted

[etinifni]

Originally Posted by RobbCory

So last Thursday while driving in town I got the Drivetrain malfunction warning, followed by the low oil pressure light. I pulled off the road and called BMW service and they had a tow truck come pick it up and take it to the dealership. Dealership is saying that the oil timing chain is "stretched" and that the oil pumped stopped working. The dealership has been helpful at this point and are working with BMW NA for resolution. He quoted me $1200 to just diagnose it, $5K to replace timing chain and pump and if it ruined the valves or cylinder walls due to no oil, could be $20k for a new engine.

I have a 2012 328i with 57,000 miles.

Not sure if it can help you but here is what my cost was, albeit I never had the timing chain actually fail.

[IMG]http://d.pr/i/AXuy+[/IMG]

[perry8912]

I haven't heard too much sad stories about timing chain failure happened on vehicle built 2014 and after. Any reason? Less miles?

[motorwerkeman]

Originally Posted by perry8912

I haven't heard too much sad stories about timing chain failure happened on vehicle built 2014 and after. Any reason? Less miles?

I am convinced that mileage is not a factor as my chain stretched causing engine failure at 21,000mi. Come to think of it, the car would stall after a cold startup occasionally months prior, which I am now convinced was the first sign of the timing being off. Mentioned it during warranty and of course was assured it was "nothing" by the dealer.

Willing to put money that this will not happen to engines made after 04/2015. Timing chain was replaced with a new part # 01/2015 and oil chain was replaced with new part # 04/2015 - meaning it took 4 years for BMW to track down and solve the problem. Both chains stretch and a service bulletin should have been issued.

I have not heard of a single case on a newer car (04/2015 or newer) with this happening and believe the new chains fix the issue until I am proven wrong.

So last Thursday while driving in town I got the Drivetrain malfunction warning, followed by the low oil pressure light. I pulled off the road and called BMW service and they had a tow truck come pick it up and take it to the dealership. Dealership is saying that the oil timing chain is "stretched" and that the oil pumped stopped working. The dealership has been helpful at this point and are working with BMW NA for resolution. He quoted me $1200 to just diagnose it, $5K to replace timing chain and pump and if it ruined the valves or cylinder walls due to no oil, could be $20k for a new engine.

I have a 2012 328i with 57,000 miles.

I was quoted about the same in Canadian dollars December 2016 -- so all of those numbers seem high considering you're in the US. Hopefully you're CPO but if not try to see if BMW NA will do anything for you.

Rather than taking a $6200 jump hoping the chain alone solves it, demand an oil analysis of what came out of the car. Will tell you pretty quickly if the engine has failed. They did my timing and oil chains first then proceeded to call and tell me the engine was gone... which added more labor to the job compared to if the engine failure was properly diagnosed in the first place.

[englishguy84]

Is the consensus that the B48/B58 share the same timing chain design (plastic guardrails) but with whatever improvements were made in 2015? haven't found a clear answer.

[Hobie18]

My Mazdaspeed6 had a bad timing chain that required replacement at 90,000 miles.
It stretched and was a known issue. Mazda did a half assed program extending warranty on it to 7 yrs /70,000 miles. First symptoms were poor idle followed by occasional hard starting. All during 4 trips to dealership where it was misdiagnosed everytime. Finally repaired by independent garage. In the end you could lift timing chain up off gears thru oil filler cap. 25,000 miles later burned a valve due to carbon buildup from poor DI design.

I bought BMW F30 for drivetrain reliability my friends experienced with their BMWs. Now I'm concerned I can't afford to hang on to this car long term.