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      08-28-2013, 09:22 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Arktctr View Post
nope...I'm in there too but for some reason not on your list...19s here as well
Go back in and reselect your car as the AH3 is still not on their approved list, lol.

list the car as ActiveHybrid 3

I suspect you have a - or no space instead of the space so that it did not pick up correctly.

What is your average MPG?

Last edited by Kabrich; 08-28-2013 at 09:32 PM..
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      08-28-2013, 09:34 PM   #376
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Hey on the bright side... I recreated my driving pattern 4 times on a loaner 328i. In the "go to work" loop, my AH3 ends up getting 28-30mpg, the 328i gets off the highway with a healthy 29mpg most of the time, but as soon as I hit the surface street traffic I lose 5 mpg to average 22-24mpg.

And taking coworkers out to lunch on a dense 5 mile trek that involves blasting the AC, stop lights every block, and 35mph speed limit? 14mpg on 328i, 20mpg ish on AH3.


So if you think your heavy city + A/C fuel economy is bad on your AH3, I have a feeling you really don't wanna know what it is on a non-hybrid! . It also goes to show, different commute / different driving style on the same car can yield a 2x difference, so comparing your fuel economy with someone else's is not very scientific.


P.S. Auto start stop. What a mess. The most I have had it stop was 15 seconds before firing up the engine again, and the cabin heats up pretty fast.

P.P.S. Now with 12000 miles on the car (still original oil), I'm noticing that my fuel economy has went up around 10% across the board. So you might be a bit more pleased with your fuel economy as time goes on.
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      08-29-2013, 12:21 AM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdong View Post
P.P.S. Now with 12000 miles on the car (still original oil), I'm noticing that my fuel economy has went up around 10% across the board. So you might be a bit more pleased with your fuel economy as time goes on.
Hmmmm. I sold my last car with 14k miles on it after 4 years, so it may not make it to 12k as this is a 3 year lease.

I might just have to take your word on it.
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      08-29-2013, 05:38 AM   #378
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And taking coworkers out to lunch on a dense 5 mile trek that involves blasting the AC, stop lights every block, and 35mph speed limit? 14mpg on 328i, 20mpg ish on AH3.
This type of driving/traffic describes what I experience every single day. And I average 20-21mpg. It got so frustrating for a while, I actually considered swapping for a 2014 328i, because I assumed mpg would be the same in this situation. Glad to know that seems unlikely!

So ASS in the regular cars turns off the A/C? That would be terrible here in TX. I often need to run Max A/C for 15+ minutes.
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      08-29-2013, 07:41 AM   #379
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The hybrid/EV's natural habitat is city driving. All the regen braking and start/stop acceleration. A petrol engine is much better under constant load, which is the case on the HWY.

BMW is widely lauded as having the worst start/stop implementation amongst OEM's, measured in Things Gone Wrong (TGW's) - the primary data source for the JD Power quality rankings. I went to a Ford technology seminar about start/stop and they repeatedly dogged BMW (they normally worship BMW powertrain tech). This only applies to the the conventional powertrain, since the hybrid has a higher voltage environment and a larger starter motor.
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      08-29-2013, 09:01 AM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabrich View Post
Go back in and reselect your car as the AH3 is still not on their approved list, lol.

list the car as ActiveHybrid 3

I suspect you have a - or no space instead of the space so that it did not pick up correctly.

What is your average MPG?
I'm at 21.6 average so far...I need to figure out how to add the fuelly signature link so it shows up (update: just updated signature)...
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      08-29-2013, 10:38 AM   #381
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Fuelly now fully supports the ActiveHybrids.

If you are not included on this list, revise your vehicle description and select it from the BMW Selections.

https://www.fuelly.com/car/bmw/activehybrid%203/2013

Hello and thanks for contacting Fuelly,
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
You'll find the Active Hybrid 3, 5 & 7 are now publicly visible.
Thanks,


Robert V- Forums Staff

Ticket Details
Ticket ID: CPH-278-17140
Department: Fuelly.com
Type: Issue
Status: Closed
Priority: Medium

Support Center: http://www.socialknowledge.com/suppo...ex.php?/fuelly
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      08-29-2013, 10:49 AM   #382
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Cool, nice job dude!
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      08-29-2013, 11:30 AM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
This type of driving/traffic describes what I experience every single day. And I average 20-21mpg. It got so frustrating for a while, I actually considered swapping for a 2014 328i, because I assumed mpg would be the same in this situation. Glad to know that seems unlikely!

So ASS in the regular cars turns off the A/C? That would be terrible here in TX. I often need to run Max A/C for 15+ minutes.
Haha, trust me, you're glad you didn't! The 328i's fuel savings come through running a smaller engine -- that really pays off on the highway, where 328i owners can report 40mpg if they set cruise control at a reasonable speed. We can't do that in our ActiveHybrids -- I find I top out at around 36-38mpg when I do that. However, if you're crawling through city traffic you can obviously tell your hybrid system is kicking in and assisting. The 328i can't do anything. Just watch the trip computer MPG steadily drop down.


And ASS in regular cars: Without the engine running, the AC compressor stops. From what I understand, these cars have a larger AC refrigerant reservoir to maximize on the residual cooling effect. But the fan slows down almost immediately, and if you are in the sun you'll start cooking at this point. You can feel the air getting warmer and more humid, and after about 15 seconds the engine starts back up, and the fan suddenly gets faster, and the air gets cold again. If you've felt Eco Pro climate control in the AH3, imagine that but with the fans slowing down to 1 notch whenever the engine is off. It is very unrefined and I've got all negative remarks about what it does. The kicker is, you only get 10-15 seconds of engine-off time. Seriously, how many drops of fuel does a 4 banger use in 15 seconds of idling?

drob23 is right about BMW's auto-start-stop being surprisingly basic. They just reinforced a starter motor for the additional cycles. That technology limits the stops to when you are completely at a standstill. And once a stop is initiated, the engine must fully come to a stop before the starter can engage again.

Meanwhile, the ActiveHybrid 3 actually has a more advanced starter solution. They use a belt-driven integrated starter alternator (ISA). This thing is capable of starting the engine even while it's moving. On the AH3, if you are clever with your pedal timing, you can actually "interrupt" the engine stopping halfway down, and the engine quickly springs back to life. Also, the AH3 has 2 12V batteries, and an isolator in between. While the engine is starting, the car actually disconnects the 2 batteries so that the engine starting does not result in a brownout. If they had put this system in the 328i, then (say in Eco Pro mode) the 328i can actually shut off its engine while the car is coasting / going downhill and the starter-alternator can still regenerate more electricity while you're coasting. This would at least keep the engine off for a good half-block or longer if you're good at hypermiling.

I hope that's a part of BMW's future plans. It would make sense for them to use the ActiveHybrids as a guinea pig for new components before taking the risk on deploying it to millions of cars. Right now, BMW is ruining the reputation of Auto-Start-Stop the same way the American carmakers ruined the reputation of diesel, or the same way that driving a 4spd Corolla ruins the reputation of what a good automatic transmission is capable of.
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      08-31-2013, 08:28 AM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabrich View Post
Fuelly now fully supports the ActiveHybrids.

If you are not included on this list, revise your vehicle description and select it from the BMW Selections.

https://www.fuelly.com/car/bmw/activehybrid%203/2013

Hello and thanks for contacting Fuelly,
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
You'll find the Active Hybrid 3, 5 & 7 are now publicly visible.
Thanks,


Robert V- Forums Staff

Ticket Details
Ticket ID: CPH-278-17140
Department: Fuelly.com
Type: Issue
Status: Closed
Priority: Medium

Support Center: http://www.socialknowledge.com/suppo...ex.php?/fuelly
Good work! It finally recognises my ActiveHybrid 5. I just popped over to say hi from the F10 forum

I seem to be doing slightly better than you ActiveHybrid 3 guys at 28 MPG (US) compared to the 25.4 MPG average for the five ActiveHybrid 3s on Fuelly. Best tank so far has been 34 MPG (US), and it is still improving slowly with more mileage on the car. I even have the car's MPG reading spot on now, but I did have to use a correction factor of 1090 in the setup menu.

Anyway glad Fuelly have sorted out their end. Maybe one day there might be another ActiveHybrid 5, as I'm the only one so far
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      08-31-2013, 09:27 AM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdong View Post
Haha, trust me, you're glad you didn't! The 328i's fuel savings come through running a smaller engine -- that really pays off on the highway, where 328i owners can report 40mpg if they set cruise control at a reasonable speed. We can't do that in our ActiveHybrids -- I find I top out at around 36-38mpg when I do that. However, if you're crawling through city traffic you can obviously tell your hybrid system is kicking in and assisting. The 328i can't do anything. Just watch the trip computer MPG steadily drop down.


And ASS in regular cars: Without the engine running, the AC compressor stops. From what I understand, these cars have a larger AC refrigerant reservoir to maximize on the residual cooling effect. But the fan slows down almost immediately, and if you are in the sun you'll start cooking at this point. You can feel the air getting warmer and more humid, and after about 15 seconds the engine starts back up, and the fan suddenly gets faster, and the air gets cold again. If you've felt Eco Pro climate control in the AH3, imagine that but with the fans slowing down to 1 notch whenever the engine is off. It is very unrefined and I've got all negative remarks about what it does. The kicker is, you only get 10-15 seconds of engine-off time. Seriously, how many drops of fuel does a 4 banger use in 15 seconds of idling?

drob23 is right about BMW's auto-start-stop being surprisingly basic. They just reinforced a starter motor for the additional cycles. That technology limits the stops to when you are completely at a standstill. And once a stop is initiated, the engine must fully come to a stop before the starter can engage again.

Meanwhile, the ActiveHybrid 3 actually has a more advanced starter solution. They use a belt-driven integrated starter alternator (ISA). This thing is capable of starting the engine even while it's moving. On the AH3, if you are clever with your pedal timing, you can actually "interrupt" the engine stopping halfway down, and the engine quickly springs back to life. Also, the AH3 has 2 12V batteries, and an isolator in between. While the engine is starting, the car actually disconnects the 2 batteries so that the engine starting does not result in a brownout. If they had put this system in the 328i, then (say in Eco Pro mode) the 328i can actually shut off its engine while the car is coasting / going downhill and the starter-alternator can still regenerate more electricity while you're coasting. This would at least keep the engine off for a good half-block or longer if you're good at hypermiling.

I hope that's a part of BMW's future plans. It would make sense for them to use the ActiveHybrids as a guinea pig for new components before taking the risk on deploying it to millions of cars. Right now, BMW is ruining the reputation of Auto-Start-Stop the same way the American carmakers ruined the reputation of diesel, or the same way that driving a 4spd Corolla ruins the reputation of what a good automatic transmission is capable of.
Good stuff, the solution I saw involved some very cool engine/trans feedback control. The issue is essentially that when starting the engine with tranny in D, there is a lot of overshoot to idle engine speed, which more or less sends a "shock" down the driveline. The solution I saw involved some stratification of fuel injection, retarding valve/spark timing (but in a very pre-planned sequential manner), and slipping some clutches within the AT.

While the higher voltage environment of a hybrid + larger starter motor makes the problem much less difficult to solve, it introduces additional costly/complex hardware into the mix that is arguably unnecessary. I think the solution could be found without going this route, will just involve some good engineering and navigating the IP minefield.

My thinking was there was just a bad assumption made by BMW powertrain engineers that owners would "tolerate" this feature and a lot of pressure from higher-ups to make the car a leader in "green" tech and best in class fuel econ.
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      08-31-2013, 11:46 AM   #386
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The ActiveHybrid's starter-alternator is actually just on the 12V bus. It's almost certainly more expensive and BMW likely has little data on its long term reliability. They're likely using the AH to beta test this component.

It's kind of ridiculous actually. Even if you rip off all the high voltage components from this car, it still qualifies as a mild hybrid.
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      09-01-2013, 09:13 PM   #387
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The AH3 is the biggest waste of money. It's stupid heavy, costly, no faster than the 335i and the mileage is 3mpg more at best. If you live in Berkley CA and trying to keep up with your hippie friends I can see why one would buy it.
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      09-01-2013, 10:58 PM   #388
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Quote:
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The AH3 is the biggest waste of money. It's stupid heavy, costly, no faster than the 335i and the mileage is 3mpg more at best. If you live in Berkley CA and trying to keep up with your hippie friends I can see why one would buy it.
If you had read a little bit more of the thread, you might have found because of incentives and money factor, the AH3 actually ends up cheaper than a non-hybrid 335. On top of that, the added 300 lbs actually balances out the car better (better weight distribution), not to mention the car has more horsepower and more torque.

And let's not forget ASS actually works properly and the 2013's had the updated NAV not available with non-hybrids, plus as you pointed out gets better gas mpg than a 335i.

Not bad for less money!

But thanks for your opinion!

Last edited by Kabrich; 09-01-2013 at 11:08 PM..
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      09-01-2013, 11:38 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Kabrich View Post
If you had read a little bit more of the thread, you might have found because of incentives and money factor, the AH3 actually ends up cheaper than a non-hybrid 335. On top of that, the added 300 lbs actually balances out the car better (better weight distribution), not to mention the car has more horsepower and more torque.

And let's not forget ASS actually works properly and the 2013's had the updated NAV not available with non-hybrids, plus as you pointed out gets better gas mpg than a 335i.

Not bad for less money!

But thanks for your opinion!
There are no BMW incentives in Seattle area, I test drove one and the only incentive was tax payers $2,500 as per sales manager.

Car felt heavy, was $61k, butt dyno it was no faster than the m sport, gas mileage was only a few mpg at best. I don't understand the fascination of hybrids - weight of batteries and two motors makes for a 2 ton 3 series which equates to wearing out brakes and tires faster, poorer cornering/braking, more electronics to fail resulting in higher maintenance costs.

Now, when Tesla makes a car that is competitive in size as the 3 series or makes an electric 3 series for BMW I will get excited.

P.s.i did read the thread.
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      09-02-2013, 11:25 AM   #390
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I'm continuing to monitor the AH3 threads closely as it is "on my list" as a possible replacement when my Chevy Volt lease expires (I've owned 5 BMWs prior to the Volt - still own 1 of them). I appreciate you guys continuing to update this and other threads!
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      09-02-2013, 12:01 PM   #391
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Quote:
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I don't understand the fascination of hybrids - weight of batteries and two motors makes for a 2 ton 3 series which equates to wearing out brakes and tires faster, poorer cornering/braking, more electronics to fail resulting in higher maintenance costs.
I doubt it wears out the brakes any faster, since braking effort comes in part from recharging the battery, so it may even use the brake pads less overall. Maintenance costs for faults are a bit irrelevant when the car is under warranty. If your gas cost $8.25 a gallon like here and you didn't like diesels, you might find them more attractive
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      09-02-2013, 02:05 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Gastoys View Post
The AH3 is the biggest waste of money. It's stupid heavy, costly, no faster than the 335i and the mileage is 3mpg more at best. If you live in Berkley CA and trying to keep up with your hippie friends I can see why one would buy it.
If you do not value the technological progress of a 10-15% improvement (e.g. 3mpg as you stated), then this is not the car for you. BMW isn't exactly expecting the ActiveHybrid to become the top seller nor are they pitching it as a performance car. Personally, I wanted a car that gets the best fuel economy possible while still meeting my performance demands. And the AH3 was the best car on the market that met those criteria. The Lexus GS450h was on my short list but the Prius-like 2 mode hybrid architecture made the whole drive experience feel like slush.

Even incentives aside, it's for people who have money to spare and are willing to put it towards more advanced technology that allows them to have a fun to drive car and reduce their fuel consumption. It fits a unique position in BMW's lineup.

Not sure why an all-electric 3-series (which will almost certainly be much below 300HP), or why a Tesla (which is much heavier than a 3 or 5 series) excites you more, but *shrug*. Personally what I'd like to see is a plug-in ActiveHybrid 3, with a 15-20 mile all-electric range and double the electric power (100HP). In boost, that could mean I can make my work commute and only have the engine come on when I'm accelerating on an onramp.

But it seems clear from BMW's roadmap that their plugin hybrids will most likely be N20-based or below, and I'm not sure I want an engine downsize either. Oh well.
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      09-02-2013, 06:06 PM   #393
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Anyone else out there having problems with the A/C in their AH3?

My A/C blows warm air out the right side and right center dashboard vents. It's been in the shop a couple of times and seems to work ok for a week or two.....and then the hot right side problem re-emerges?

After the car and A/C have been running and have cooled down, the air temp from the 2 right vents is cooler....and might even finally feel the same as left 2.

Any ideas or suggestions?
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      09-02-2013, 07:31 PM   #394
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Anyone else out there having problems with the A/C in their AH3?

My A/C blows warm air out the right side and right center dashboard vents. It's been in the shop a couple of times and seems to work ok for a week or two.....and then the hot right side problem re-emerges?

After the car and A/C have been running and have cooled down, the air temp from the 2 right vents is cooler....and might even finally feel the same as left 2.

Any ideas or suggestions?
Eco-Pro mode or all modes?

I noticed this for the in mine but then everything seemed to balance out when around ~100 miles were on the car. I did not do anything to it to cause the change and have not seen anyone else mention it, so I *assumed* I was probably imagining it as I never measured the exact temp coming out of the vents.
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      09-02-2013, 07:35 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjb View Post
Anyone else out there having problems with the A/C in their AH3?

My A/C blows warm air out the right side and right center dashboard vents. It's been in the shop a couple of times and seems to work ok for a week or two.....and then the hot right side problem re-emerges?

After the car and A/C have been running and have cooled down, the air temp from the 2 right vents is cooler....and might even finally feel the same as left 2.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Someone on BimmerFest complained about similar symptoms and their dealership told them that the refrigerant needed to be refilled.

I've not experienced this issue on my ActiveHybrid.
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      09-02-2013, 07:50 PM   #396
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Personally what I'd like to see is a plug-in ActiveHybrid 3, with a 15-20 mile all-electric range and double the electric power (100HP). In boost, that could mean I can make my work commute and only have the engine come on when I'm accelerating on an onramp.

But it seems clear from BMW's roadmap that their plugin hybrids will most likely be N20-based or below, and I'm not sure I want an engine downsize either. Oh well.
As most of my driving is done in trips of 10 miles or less, I was very intrigued by the Prius Plug In Hybrid from the beginning. Most expected the cars to sellout quickly and be in tight demand.

Bottom line, America has not accepted the Prius Plug In Hybrid and most Dealers in the few states that sell them cannot get them off the lots unless highly discounted.

Bottom line in terms of sales, the Prius Plug In is to the Prius Line as the AH3 is to the Series 3 in the BMW line (~100,000 per year BMW Series 3 to 100 a month AH3).

I am sure every car company in the world is looking at the lack of success in the highly successful Prius line and their Plug In Hybrid when developing future plans for their Companies.
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