[nate977p]

Hello All,
I wanted to ask a few questions before I take a plunge on a new (used) car and most likely join the BMW community. I have spent hundreds of hours figuring out what car to get and I have narrowed it down to a few. I am down to a BMW F30 (328 or 335), BMW X1, Cadillac ATS, or Volvo S60 T6 R-Design. Now I know these are all a bit different, but my main needs are:

1) Commuting-I commute between 20-25k/year (maybe a bit less going forward, but above average) so the car needs to have the ability to be comfortable (i.e. dream car would have adaptive suspension).

2) Reliability-A CPO or extended warranty helps here, but I would like to keep this car to 200k miles or so.

3) Sporting- I cannot deal with a car that is not fun. Handling is #1 in this department, with the ideal being an adaptive dampener setup. I hate using 0-60 numbers, but I do require some good pickup so being around 6 seconds and under is a requirement. Would prefer manual and RWD, but those are a dime and dozen in these northern climates. RWD needs an easy to add LSD (i.e. X1 sDrive28i there is no aftermarket support for one).

-Utility-Really all these cars are better than my current car’s trunk and have useable rear seat space.

I currently have a Monogram Series FR-S that is very fun, but not practical, and a bit down on power. Also, it is not comfortable for my long drives; I have put over 50k on it in 18 months.

My questions:

1) F30: I have a lead on a 335i RWD with EVERYTHING and paddle shifters. It is a ok color (Meh) and has 48k miles on it. The problem: it is a 2012. I really hate the idea of a first year car, especially with all this tech and it has a 11/29/11 build date meaning it was built in the first month of the F30. It is also from a local independent, but high quality, luxury used car dealer. Carfax is clean, but looks like oil was changed at 17k and 37k (it was a lease). Also the hood stuck a bit. I am planning on driving it to BMW for a pre purchase inspection. But it is right in my budget. So am I being crazy by worrying about it being a very early first year and from a independent dealer, even if it passes the BMW dealer pre-purchase inspection? Also, I know we only have a bit less than 4 years of history, but how do the N55 F30 hold up over time? It looks pretty well from my searching?

2) F30 ActiveHybrid: These look amazing and I found one with 48k miles on it for $24k? If it checks out am I crazy not to get this? Or maintenance nightmare?

3) E84 X1: For whatever reason I love these: Basically E90 chassis, a 3-series wagon that is raised 2 inches, hydraulic steering, pretty peppy in 28i spec, downright fast (for what it is) in 35i spec. I have a lead on a 35i CPO (has 47k miles) for a bit more than my budget. Am I crazy in getting one of these for the extra utility? It kills me there is no aftermarket support, but I can get a lot more in an X1 for my budget. How are these for long term reliability? Do I become the unloved child of the BMW world if I get one? I also have a lead on an 35i M-sport that is from a private party just a hair out of my budget with 48k miles, but no CPO scares me a bit.

So does anyone have any thoughts?

Thank you all for reading my long message here. Just a big decision and BMWs are all new to me (even though I have researched left, right, up, and down .

[fshubert]

Welcome to BMW! To contribute my thoughts:
1) I do 15k/yr and the F30 is a dream to drive. I did NY-Chicago last month for a weekend trip to see a friend. 11-hours each way and not an uncomfortable muscle.
2) New or CPO is a great way to go.
3) I love the 335i RWD. What a blast! I'm in Northern NJ so get a decent dump of snow. I put on a square Blizzak set-up from Tire Rack and go just about anywhere. No, I don't go out into 12' of snow, but a few inches is fine and certainly after the plow goes by all is well.

Good luck!

[AudiA4]

If fun and handling are your #1 priorities, you should definitely test drive a Cadillac ATS.

[rking117]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

If fun and handling are your #1 priorities, you should definitely test drive a Cadillac ATS.

what!?!

[Buttons]

If fun is your #1 priority, why is the 328 on the list?

[dalto]

I test drove a Volvo S60 R design a few weeks ago. It wasn't a bad car but I don't think many people would categorize it as "fun".

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by nate977p

Hello All,
I wanted to ask a few questions before I take a plunge on a new (used) car and most likely join the BMW community. I have spent hundreds of hours figuring out what car to get and I have narrowed it down to a few. I am down to a BMW F30 (328 or 335), BMW X1, Cadillac ATS, or Volvo S60 T6 R-Design. Now I know these are all a bit different, but my main needs are:

1) Commuting-I commute between 20-25k/year (maybe a bit less going forward, but above average) so the car needs to have the ability to be comfortable (i.e. dream car would have adaptive suspension).

I have been averaging 30k/year with my 2014 335i. Currently at ~45k miles. It's comfortable on long hauls.

2) Reliability-A CPO or extended warranty helps here, but I would like to keep this car to 200k miles or so.

You're going to need to do a lot to keep it to 200k. The key is preventative maintenance. It'll go beyond what BMW's Free Maintenance entails. Parts are expensive. Labor, even more. If you don't have access to a garage with a lift, air tools, alignment machines, etc. it'll get expensive.

3) Sporting- I cannot deal with a car that is not fun. Handling is #1 in this department, with the ideal being an adaptive dampener setup. I hate using 0-60 numbers, but I do require some good pickup so being around 6 seconds and under is a requirement. Would prefer manual and RWD, but those are a dime and dozen in these northern climates. RWD needs an easy to add LSD (i.e. X1 sDrive28i there is no aftermarket support for one).

My 335i is RWD and Sport Suspension (non-adaptive). I like it a lot. If you're keeping your car beyond 100k miles, I'd recommend a static suspension. Look at the price of adaptive dampeners because they're at least double the cost of regular Sport struts.

-Utility-Really all these cars are better than my current car’s trunk and have useable rear seat space.

I currently have a Monogram Series FR-S that is very fun, but not practical, and a bit down on power. Also, it is not comfortable for my long drives; I have put over 50k on it in 18 months.

My questions:

1) F30: I have a lead on a 335i RWD with EVERYTHING and paddle shifters. It is a ok color (Meh) and has 48k miles on it. The problem: it is a 2012. I really hate the idea of a first year car, especially with all this tech and it has a 11/29/11 build date meaning it was built in the first month of the F30. It is also from a local independent, but high quality, luxury used car dealer. Carfax is clean, but looks like oil was changed at 17k and 37k (it was a lease). Also the hood stuck a bit. I am planning on driving it to BMW for a pre purchase inspection. But it is right in my budget. So am I being crazy by worrying about it being a very early first year and from a independent dealer, even if it passes the BMW dealer pre-purchase inspection? Also, I know we only have a bit less than 4 years of history, but how do the N55 F30 hold up over time? It looks pretty well from my searching?

N55 should hold up pretty well over time if you replace plugs, coils, filters, and oil on a regular and consistent basis. I've been doing oil changes with M1 0w-40 every 5-7.5k miles. At 50k miles, you'll have a bit to do... Spark plugs, air filter, and possibly ATF drain and fill. (I don't subscribe to this lifetime fluid BS especially if you plan to keep the car to 200k miles.)

2) F30 ActiveHybrid: These look amazing and I found one with 48k miles on it for $24k? If it checks out am I crazy not to get this? Or maintenance nightmare?

Absolutely stay AWAY from a hybrid vehicle if you are going past 100k miles on it. It's simply NOT worth it. My girlfriend had a 2005 Honda Civic and the battery ate shit. Her car is worth $3-4k in good working condition. The problem is a failing battery trips the CEL. A CEL is automatic failure for emissions in MD. The cost to replace her hybrid battery is $2.5k alone in parts. Whatever fuel you save from the hybrid technology will be wiped out by the replacement cost of the battery.

3) E84 X1: For whatever reason I love these: Basically E90 chassis, a 3-series wagon that is raised 2 inches, hydraulic steering, pretty peppy in 28i spec, downright fast (for what it is) in 35i spec. I have a lead on a 35i CPO (has 47k miles) for a bit more than my budget. Am I crazy in getting one of these for the extra utility? It kills me there is no aftermarket support, but I can get a lot more in an X1 for my budget. How are these for long term reliability? Do I become the unloved child of the BMW world if I get one? I also have a lead on an 35i M-sport that is from a private party just a hair out of my budget with 48k miles, but no CPO scares me a bit.

So does anyone have any thoughts?

Thank you all for reading my long message here. Just a big decision and BMWs are all new to me (even though I have researched left, right, up, and down .

Bolded text.

[cptcrunch]

I drove the ATS a year back and its a really nice car. Great steering feel, interior is a little cramp feeling, suspension is right on, great handling car. The F30 could learn a few things from it.

So I'd drive an ATS and 335i back to back, see which one you like more.

[nate977p]

Thank you for the replies all. I actually am thinking of jumping on the ATS wagon. It is a great car. I swore against GM, but for a car with lots of warranty left, Magnetic suspension, RWD, and 300 HP on a great chasis, with a cheap, semi reliable engine, I really think its too tempting.

[Jagamov]

My parents own an ATS and I've driven it several times. It's a nice car and it drives pretty good.

3 reasons why I would never own one:

1. The shifting (automatic) is absolutely horrible. GM's quest for gas mileage causes it to shift up as fast as possible. Anytime, and I mean anytime you get on the gas it has to down shift at least 2 gears. Sport mode is useless for shifting, it doesn't change a thing. It does tighten up the suspension, but shifting still sucks. It gets really old.

2. It's a pretty cramped cabin at least for me (6 ft tall). Roof line is a little low too. I don't find it super comfortable for longer rides.

3. The CUE system is garbage. The touch panel controls are horrible and it's very glitchy. Nuff said on that, it's well documented.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by Jagamov

My parents own an ATS and I've driven it several times. It's a nice car and it drives pretty good.

3 reasons why I would never own one:

1. The shifting (automatic) is absolutely horrible. GM's quest for gas mileage causes it to shift up as fast as possible. Anytime, and I mean anytime you get on the gas it has to down shift at least 2 gears. Sport mode is useless for shifting, it doesn't change a thing. It does tighten up the suspension, but shifting still sucks. It gets really old.

2. It's a pretty cramped cabin at least for me (6 ft tall). Roof line is a little low too. I don't find it super comfortable for longer rides.

3. The CUE system is garbage. The touch panel controls are horrible and it's very glitchy. Nuff said on that, it's well documented.

The 2016 ATS with its new 8 speed and all new 3.6 V6, along with updated QUE (with Apple CarPlay) addresses 2 of the 3 issues mentioned. The cabin however, does remain a bit snug.

[ka24682468]

you want saving budget? go for cadillac
you want safety? go for volvo
you want room? go for X1 (it has the largest room in your selections)
you want not much fun? go for 328
you want fun? go for 335
just my opinion

[nate977p]

Originally Posted by Jagamov

My parents own an ATS and I've driven it several times. It's a nice car and it drives pretty good.

3 reasons why I would never own one:

1. The shifting (automatic) is absolutely horrible. GM's quest for gas mileage causes it to shift up as fast as possible. Anytime, and I mean anytime you get on the gas it has to down shift at least 2 gears. Sport mode is useless for shifting, it doesn't change a thing. It does tighten up the suspension, but shifting still sucks. It gets really old.

2. It's a pretty cramped cabin at least for me (6 ft tall). Roof line is a little low too. I don't find it super comfortable for longer rides.

3. The CUE system is garbage. The touch panel controls are horrible and it's very glitchy. Nuff said on that, it's well documented.

1- I love, love, love manuals. That is only reason I have not pulled trigger, and I have a lead on a 2.0T with the manual, but that engine first year is plagued with problems and a bit slow. That being said, I really, really liked that auto. It was no BMW 8-speed, but it held gears without up shifting in manual mode, paddle shifters were very responsive when asked to shift, and it was pretty quick overall.

2-I cannot disagree with, but i am 6' 3" and currently a bit larger than I like statute, but I fit comfortably up front and could squeeze someone behind me. Headroom less than I would love, but remember I am currently in an FR-S and think that is comfortable soooo. The long ride thing idk about though. Have only driven it for 45 minute stints.

3-you are spot on with, but as long as I can put one radio station on and answer BT calls, I am good. In cars with screens, I typically turn the screens off and call it a day. Granted the climate control lives on there, but there are still physical touch buttons, so I think I am okay with it.

Originally Posted by AudiA4

The 2016 ATS with its new 8 speed and all new 3.6 V6, along with updated QUE (with Apple CarPlay) addresses 2 of the 3 issues mentioned. The cabin however, does remain a bit snug.

If we were talking new in the 50k price range, I would not be looking at the Caddy . Looking used, preferably CPO as I drove 25k+/year and not looking to be car poor on repairs, and a soft budget of $25k, hard budget of $27k.

Originally Posted by ka24682468

you want saving budget? go for cadillac
you want safety? go for volvo
you want room? go for X1 (it has the largest room in your selections)
you want not much fun? go for 328
you want fun? go for 335
just my opinion

I want fun, but 335 out of budget and even a late E90, only would get max year or two on extended warranty and they want 4k for full warranty at the few dealers I called

Have you driven the Volvo? Yes its front heavy, yes its a Ford Chasis, but man did they dress it up well and it was more fun than it had the right to be.

Let me change the question here.

If you had a budget of $25k, would plan on driving 75k over the next 3 years, have a small repair budget (excluding normal wear and tear such as oil, tires, ext), and cannot be dealing with a car in the shop all the time, what would you buy? Oh, and need a real back seat because friends.

Thanks!

[Jagamov]

Originally Posted by nate977p

1- I love, love, love manuals. That is only reason I have not pulled trigger, and I have a lead on a 2.0T with the manual, but that engine first year is plagued with problems and a bit slow. That being said, I really, really liked that auto. It was no BMW 8-speed, but it held gears without up shifting in manual mode, paddle shifters were very responsive when asked to shift, and it was pretty quick overall.

3-you are spot on with, but as long as I can put one radio station on and answer BT calls, I am good. In cars with screens, I typically turn the screens off and call it a day. Granted the climate control lives on there, but there are still physical touch buttons, so I think I am okay with it.

1. I never drove it in manual mode, so I can't comment. My experience was just normal driving at say 40 miles an hour and it was in like 6th gear, and just to accelerate to pass, you really had to jam on the gas to get it even do anything. Surprisingly, my Corvette was the same way. Its whole goal was to get into 6th gear as soon as possible and downshifts seem to require more pedal than you would think. Both my BMW's are nothing like that.

3. As pointed above, maybe 2016 will bring a much needed update. Your idea of turning off the screen is good, but imagine driving down the road and the stereo going to full volume. Turning off the system or the car is the only fix. Cadillac has been unable to figure it out so far. And the physical touch buttons are all electronic and they can be less than ideal when it comes to response.

But overall, it is a nice car, and from what I've seen the 2016's appear to be a good leap forward so I don't think its a bad choice.

[nate977p]

Originally Posted by Jagamov

1. I never drove it in manual mode, so I can't comment. My experience was just normal driving at say 40 miles an hour and it was in like 6th gear, and just to accelerate to pass, you really had to jam on the gas to get it even do anything. Surprisingly, my Corvette was the same way. Its whole goal was to get into 6th gear as soon as possible and downshifts seem to require more pedal than you would think. Both my BMW's are nothing like that.

3. As pointed above, maybe 2016 will bring a much needed update. Your idea of turning off the screen is good, but imagine driving down the road and the stereo going to full volume. Turning off the system or the car is the only fix. Cadillac has been unable to figure it out so far. And the physical touch buttons are all electronic and they can be less than ideal when it comes to response.

But overall, it is a nice car, and from what I've seen the 2016's appear to be a good leap forward so I don't think its a bad choice.

Okay yeah things blowing up is a bit scary. Did you actually have it go to full volume for no reason?

If its hunting in normal mode, that I am okay with. Get a bit annoying sure, but not the end of the world if I can override it.

Thanks!

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by ka24682468

you want saving budget? go for cadillac
you want safety? go for volvo
you want room? go for X1 (it has the largest room in your selections)
you want not much fun? go for 328
you want fun? go for 335
just my opinion

Get a GTI and get it all.

[CHCCubs]

Originally Posted by nate977p

Thank you for the replies all. I actually am thinking of jumping on the ATS wagon. It is a great car. I swore against GM, but for a car with lots of warranty left, Magnetic suspension, RWD, and 300 HP on a great chasis, with a cheap, semi reliable engine, I really think its too tempting.

Do you mean the previous gen CTS wagon? There is no ATS wagon and the current CTS is also no longer available in wagon form.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by nate977p

Thank you for the replies all. I actually am thinking of jumping on the ATS wagon. It is a great car. I swore against GM, but for a car with lots of warranty left, Magnetic suspension, RWD, and 300 HP on a great chasis, with a cheap, semi reliable engine, I really think its too tempting.

The ATS has been commended for its handling, but I've never seen a comparison where it came out on top overall. And--used ATS models are cheap (i.e., have horrible resale value) for a reason. Make sure you do all your research, given the mileage you will be racking up.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by CHCCubs

Do you mean the previous gen CTS wagon? There is no ATS wagon and the current CTS is also no longer available in wagon form.

I thought the same thing. He means the ATS bandwagon.

[Jagamov]

Originally Posted by nate977p

Okay yeah things blowing up is a bit scary. Did you actually have it go to full volume for no reason?

If its hunting in normal mode, that I am okay with. Get a bit annoying sure, but not the end of the world if I can override it.

Thanks!

Yep. Driving down the road and the volume just starts going up and never stops. Only way to get it down is with the steering wheel controls. Sometimes it'll stay down, but most of the time, it'll head right back up again. Turning off the stereo is the fix while driving, otherwise the car needs to be shut off for it to stop doing it once it starts.

Dealer found a ground wire that wasn't attached to the radio and thought that would fix it, but it hasn't.

[nate977p]

Originally Posted by Jagamov

Yep. Driving down the road and the volume just starts going up and never stops. Only way to get it down is with the steering wheel controls. Sometimes it'll stay down, but most of the time, it'll head right back up again. Turning off the stereo is the fix while driving, otherwise the car needs to be shut off for it to stop doing it once it starts.

Dealer found a ground wire that wasn't attached to the radio and thought that would fix it, but it hasn't.

Oh man. Yeah I am a bit scared of the ATS now But also, yes not ATS wagon, I meant bandwagon! I am thinking about GTI, but I need dual AC and you have to get top trim for that....

[nicknaz]

OP, for a 200k miles keeper and 0-60 in 6s or less, I think you should take a strong look at the E90 328. I LOVED my old one, which was RWD, 6MT and sport package. It was a lot of fun, and I think the old school engine is going to be a lot cheaper to keep on the road for 200k miles