[devil84]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

I don't think the Dyno is over as when I did the same run on Surrey Rolling road a few months back with the DTUK box the BHP was 3 BHP higher at Evolve than SRR so confident the figures are accurate

Danny Fireblade had his 30D which is standard at the same time at SRR and his car did 285 BHP so I feel the 30D produces more power than published

The MPPK will max out at 300BHP no matter what.

It may be worth putting your car on a dyno before its changed to an MPPK to see what its producing

interesting so what we saying is that a mppk will only add 8 bhp to your car based on that logic 😀

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by devil84

interesting so what we saying is that a mppk will only add 8 bhp to your car based on that logic ��

Yes that my opinion.

MPPK are always higher than their stated 286BHP and produce 300BHP ish but that's because the standard engines produce more than 258 bhp standard quoted power.

Personally I would not have an MPPK on a 30D unless you were really worried about the warranty side of things

BMW = Lot of money but piece of mind less power than Evolve remap
Evolve = Half the price but no manufacturer warranty, more power than MPPK

I don't think a remap at the Evolve level of tune will ever do any harm to the engine or the drivetrain

Decisions, decisions

[KCH1984]

I think what Jon was saying is he's confident in the comparison between box and remap, given the box produced a very similar figure on a previous Dyno. The stock figure does look high, and given only one run could be some hangover from having the box fitted or the way the car was run on the Dyno. I saw similar with my car making slightly more 'stock' before and after a box was fitted.

Important thing is to get a Dyno run (preferably same day, same Dyno) before and after you have the MPPK fitted to see what the gains it's producing are. Whether you're 250bhp, 260bhp or 270bhp before is irrelevant, it's the gains it makes which is where your money has gone.

As others have pointed out to me time and again, @engine figures are not an exact science. It would be better if we were all comparing what was being made at the wheels.

[KCH1984]

I would agree with the above comment r.e. value for money on the MPPK. I could see the argument for it before when you had to rip out the ECU to get a remap done, but with the OBD method now available the argument for the MPPK is largely redundant.

With the 30d I believe the turbo itself is the limiting factor in achieving more power, as opposed to the standard intercooler.

[devil84]

swings in roundabouts i guess. assume mppk car may have higher resale value to offset cost.

can't put a price on piece of mind 're warranty. each to their own k guess.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by devil84

interesting so what we saying is that a mppk will only add 8 bhp to your car based on that logic 😀

No it will add around 25bhp and a good stage 1 remap on these cars will add 50/60bhp. Take any stock dyno readings close to 300bhp with a pinch of salt, maybe 270/275bhp stock on a good one, then around 300bhp with mppk and 320/330bhp max from stage 1 remap. Either way the OP gained over 50bhp over stock from his remap which is nice gains from just a stage 1 remap

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by devil84

what I am saying is that dyno is 13 percent inflated.

therefore if you took your stock reading of 292bhp and added mppk it would have been 322bhp?

A few things to bear in mind :

Stock 30Ds tend to make more than published. My car made 274bhp at BW Chiptune, for example. Other 30Ds have made more.

MPPK gives a very modest increase. On the same dyno it made 295bhp on the same dyno. This seems to be consistent with others which have been dyno'd with the MPPK.

Different 30Ds on the same dyno have all made strong figures. Jon's 30D on different dyno has delivered very similar figures - this helps to corroborate the figures.

The 30D, and the 35D, do seem to respond well to tuning and especially to a good remap.

[mikeoz]

The MPPK also does other things than str8 power increase.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

The MPPK also does other things than str8 power increase.

I know.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

The MPPK also does other things than str8 power increase.

What like other than intercooler and brakes?

On a 530D its only ECU a intercooler.

It's also twice the price of a remap though

[YR430D]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

I don't think the Dyno is over as when I did the same run on Surrey Rolling road a few months back with the DTUK box the BHP was 3 BHP higher at Evolve than SRR so confident the figures are accurate

Danny Fireblade had his 30D which is standard at the same time at SRR and his car did 285 BHP so I feel the 30D produces more power than published

The MPPK will max out at 300BHP no matter what.

It may be worth putting your car on a dyno before its changed to an MPPK to see what its producing

Mine made 264 stock.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by YR430D

Mine made 264 stock.

Maybe it was a Friday car

[Skwirrel]

On a traction limited car, (slightly) lower peak power over a wider range is the way forward. A 330d is not hard to light up the wheels as standard and a big slug of extra torque at low rpm is the last thing needed.

4x4 does not have the same challenge. I have had 3 x mapped cars, all completely different in the way they changed the car.

S3 265>310 4x4 no traction issues - high boost early - but ran out of steam as the revs got to the top end. Felt quicker than it actually was due to early hit of power and short gearing.

Octavia VRS 210>255 FWD traction issues up to 40mph even though a much less aggressive map - an absolute weapon once rolling a little faster and on the motorway but again all done by 5500-6000 rpm. Longer gearing than above made much better use of extra power once you'd got off the line

Fiesta ST 180>215 FWD traction limited - not much difference under 3000rpm to std - builds quickly and progressively with an aggressive dash to the limiter at the top end. Feels like a standard car just much quicker.

Point being the extra power and delivery needs to be matched to the available traction and work with the gearing to be successful. There is a subjective element to how the car drives following a remap that cannot be quantified by the numbers on a graph.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

Maybe it was a Friday car

Or an average car with an accurate dyno result

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Hooded

Or an average car with an accurate dyno result

So on that basis do you think the Evolve and SRR dyno over read my output by 12% on both occasions?

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Skwirrel

On a traction limited car, (slightly) lower peak power over a wider range is the way forward. A 330d is not hard to light up the wheels as standard and a big slug of extra torque at low rpm is the last thing needed.

4x4 does not have the same challenge. I have had 3 x mapped cars, all completely different in the way they changed the car.

S3 265>310 4x4 no traction issues - high boost early - but ran out of steam as the revs got to the top end. Felt quicker than it actually was due to early hit of power and short gearing.

Octavia VRS 210>255 FWD traction issues up to 40mph even though a much less aggressive map - an absolute weapon once rolling a little faster and on the motorway but again all done by 5500-6000 rpm. Longer gearing than above made much better use of extra power once you'd got off the line

Fiesta ST 180>215 FWD traction limited - not much difference under 3000rpm to std - builds quickly and progressively with an aggressive dash to the limiter at the top end. Feels like a standard car just much quicker.

Point being the extra power and delivery needs to be matched to the available traction and work with the gearing to be successful. There is a subjective element to how the car drives following a remap that cannot be quantified by the numbers on a graph.

Totally agree.

For me it's one of the reasons why the remap is better than the box.

Less torque on the map compared to the box initially which reduces wheel spin but more BHP to drive the car harder once it's moving.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

So on that basis do you think the Evolve and SRR dyno over read my output by 12% on both occasions?

What I believe is that your car made roughly an extra 52bhp after the remap going by the fact it was tested before and after on the same dyno on the same day decent gains.
I personally don't believe any of these cars make 290bhp+ stock and the good ones make around 270/275, average ones around 265. Question: Do you really believe your car was nearly 300bhp stock?

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Hooded

What I believe is that your car made roughly an extra 52bhp after the remap going by the fact it was tested before and after on the same dyno on the same day decent gains.
I personally don't believe any of these cars make 290bhp+ stock and the good ones make around 270/275, average ones around 265. Question: Do you really believe your car was nearly 300bhp stock?

I see you point, it made 292 bhp not 300 bhp

I always run the car with a cetane booster so has this had an effect? Who knows.

It does seem high I agree but ultimately as has been said numbers are pub talk and what it's like to drive is what matters

No doubt end up on another rolling road day soon enough for more debate.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

I see you point, it made 292 bhp not 300 bhp

I always run the car with a cetane booster so has this had an effect? Who knows.

It does seem high I agree but ultimately as has been said numbers are pub talk and what it's like to drive is what matters

No doubt end up on another rolling road day soon enough for more debate.

At the end of the day you know it's gained over 50bhp from the remap (50/60bhp gains from stage 1 on these is decent) even if the dyno was reading a little high

I completely agree the important thing is how it drives and I'm sure you can tell the difference now looking at the before and after dyno graph you posted.

What I do know about these cars is a stock car does 80-120kph on the flat in around 3.6 seconds, and an mppk one does it in around 3.3, one at around 320bhp in around 2.9 and a stage 2 remap 345bhp in around 2.7 seconds! You could See where your car compares with those figures

[A15X]

run what you brung day anyone?

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Hooded

At the end of the day you know it's gained over 50bhp from the remap (50/60bhp gains from stage 1 on these is decent) even if the dyno was reading a little high

I completely agree the important thing is how it drives and I'm sure you can tell the difference now looking at the before and after dyno graph you posted.

What I do know about these cars is a stock car does 80-120kph on the flat in around 3.6 seconds, and an mppk one does it in around 3.3, one at around 320bhp in around 2.9 and a stage 2 remap 345bhp in around 2.7 seconds! You could See where your car compares with those figures

Good idea. So that's Kph not mph

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

Good idea. So that's Kph not mph

Yes 80-120kph (50-75mph) .. accelerate through that range, doing a few runs to get an average in the dry on the flat. I plant my foot to the floor at around 50/60kph if testing an 80-120 time