[Diversion]

Watched a couple of videos where these modded JB4 8-speed auto F90s are getting destroyed by things like a an old 350Z HR with bolt ons.. A WRX with mods, etc...

Making it look like the F90 even flashed look bad.. Is the auto that slow and the 6 speed a huge difference?

Couldn't find many 6 speed videos.

On the upside, autos are getting 34+ on the highway.. I'd assume the 6 speed would get a few less running higher RPMs vs 8 speed auto.

Being I have a daily driver, I would probably opt for a 6 speed if the performance difference is that much better. .I just figured the 8 speed vs 6 speed wasn't going to be that much but it seems very slow for it's performance.

[n55x3]

The new ZF8 spd is much better than the previous 6 spd Auto. In fact I think BMW even publicizes better performance numbers for the 8Spd vs manual within the F3* platforms.

[Diversion]

Originally Posted by n55x3

The new ZF8 spd is much better than the previous 6 spd Auto. In fact I think BMW even publicizes better performance numbers for the 8Spd vs manual within the F3* platforms.

I was referring to the 6-speed manual vs. the 8-speed Auto.. Just surprised to see JB4 8-speed autos getting beat by far cheaper cars with bolt ons..

[Tommy_hf]

It's not the ZF8 but the tune. A 335i with a tune does about 360 BHP and weighs more than the 350Z which probably has turbo's pushing it towards 500+ HP. Some are even running the R35GTR V6TT in their 350Z. The ZF8 is actually faster than 99% of drivers with M6 transmission. Just adding a JB4 doesn't make the 335i a topfuel dragster.

[n55x3]

to many variables to determine exactly why they are being beat but from a sheer BMW perspective the 8spd has better publicized performance numbers than the 6spd.

[Diversion]

Is it true the "Sport" 8spd auto (paddles) vs the regular non-paddle 8spd is faster?

Maybe they were running a non-paddle 8 spd version.. It was so much slower than the WRX though, it made no sense. I just can't see a bolt on WRX walking away so fast.. I'm not looking for a rccket, there's obviously better cars for speed..

I guess i'm used to the old N54 powered 335i's with mods being highly formidable on the road.. whereas this new F30/N55 stuff seems far weaker.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

8AT is faster than a 6MT all things being equal. Issue is the current N55 does not tune well unless you go for the extra wiring for the new electric waste gates.

[elistan]

Originally Posted by Diversion

Watched a couple of videos where these modded JB4 8-speed auto F90s are getting destroyed by things like a an old 350Z HR with bolt ons.. A WRX with mods, etc...

Making it look like the F90 even flashed look bad.. Is the auto that slow and the 6 speed a huge difference?

No. The 8 spd auto should be faster than both a 6 spd auto and a 6 spd manual.

Without seeing dyno charts of the cars in the video, it's hard to say what's really going on. Also, are the videos of a drag start from a standstill and if so how good/aggressive are the various drivers at launching their cars? Are the videos of a highway roll?

(I assume you meant E90, not F?)

[Vervain]

Originally Posted by elistan

No. The 8 spd auto should be faster than both a 6 spd auto and a 6 spd manual.

Without seeing dyno charts of the cars in the video, it's hard to say what's really going on. Also, are the videos of a drag start from a standstill and if so how good/aggressive are the various drivers at launching their cars? Are the videos of a highway roll?

(I assume you meant E90, not F?)

I think he means F30 since it has the 8 speed auto.

[FC4]

You 0-60 magazine racers can believe all you want, but no...an 8AT 335i or 435i is not faster than a 6MT. From a dig, it would be a dead heat if the MT is driven properly. From a roll, I'd bet on the MT due to taller gearing, less weight, and more power being delivered to the wheels due to efficiency. Sure the AT will be more consistent and in ultra short, hypothetical races like 0-60 MPH might be a tenth or two quicker. But if you want to compare meaningful acceleration, they're even.

Here are some examples of 6MT vs. DCT comparing M3s. Couldn't find any non-M evidence, but keep in mind...the M3's MT is functionally no different than a non-M's MT. However the DCT trans in both examples is far more performance-oriented than the same torque-converter 8AT you'll find in a 320i parked in shopping malls across the country. Or in other words, the same transmission in a 335i AT.

Stock M4 DCT vs. stock M3 6MT. 3:51 "It was a very even race, I think we both trapped around 139 MPH. It was a good race."

Stock 2011 M3 DCT vs. stock 2011 M3 6MT. Dead heat every pull except for one outlier.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by FC4

You 0-60 magazine racers can believe all you want, but no...an 8AT 335i or 435i is not faster than a 6MT.

Outside of Vishnu's big single turbo find the 6MT'S

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW--335i-Drag-Racing.html

[qcocjnoralsm]

It was so much slower than the WRX though, it made no sense.

[n55x3]

Originally Posted by FC4

You 0-60 magazine racers can believe all you want, but no...an 8AT 335i or 435i is not faster than a 6MT. From a dig, it would be a dead heat if the MT is driven properly. From a roll, I'd bet on the MT due to taller gearing, less weight, and more power being delivered to the wheels due to efficiency. Sure the AT will be more consistent and in ultra short, hypothetical races like 0-60 MPH might be a tenth or two quicker. But if you want to compare meaningful acceleration, they're even.

BMWNA quotes the AT @ .3 secs quicker to 60 than the MT. Maybe BMW takes into account difficulty to launch consistently with the MT. Regardless, I'd consider that a pretty big discrepancy considering everything else is the same.

But I'd definitely argue 0-60, 5-60, etc is very relevant in the real world. Anything over ~60 is atypical in daily commutes. If you line up an AT and MT I think you'd find the AT winning the majority, if not all, the runs to 60.

I'm definitely not knocking the manual and I understand the nostalgic feeling sitting behind 3 pedals. My last several cars were all manuals but at the end of the day the Zf8spd is so good that it is very hard to make the argument for an MT outside of personal preference. Even from an efficiency (MPG) perspective the manual falls behind the AT.

[rjpeaks]

magazine racers!

sig worthy

[BEAR-AvHistory]

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW--135i-Drag-Racing.html

Same deal on the 135 its the AT almost every time. No magazine numbers just Drag Strip time slips.

No bias in the postings my 135is is a 6MT as is the Cobra.

[Diversion]

Crazy how strong the automatic is and how fast it is even in high horsepower applications.. I actually wish this 335i F30 i'm looking at was automatic.. But it's such a steal and absolutely has every package and option you can equip, yet is 6 speed manual. I wanted the 8 spd auto for the ease of daily use.. I suppose I could hold off and wait for a 8 spd to show up for a good price.

[beretta2211]

I ran my buddy with his 6.0L GTO , He had headers and that's about it. I was stock. From a 50+ roll it was so close. My front bumper was at his front fender or door. He didn't even get a half a car length.. I have a 2012 335i sport with 8AT.. I used the paddle shifters but I don't think it makes much difference.

[NISFAN]

Lol, a Subaru with bolts on's would be anywhere between an easy 350-500hp. Coupled with AWD, no wonder it will smoke a stock turbo 335i even a remapped on. Speed has no relation to the cost of the car new.

I don't think Manual or Auto even factors in much.....yes, you can control clutch dump better on a manual, but being traction limited, this is not a big advantage....the close ratio and timeless shifts on the Auto easily make up ground. As for transmission losses, the new ZF8 is far more efficient than older types. Yes there is more loss than what you get with a manual, but it is almost insignificant on a tuned engine. For example if you race two cars identical but one has 300hp at the wheels against a 294hp at the wheels, it is not going to be a whitewash.

[Falafel Combo]

I've had both (sport ZF8, 6MT). The ZF8 was faster (at least felt faster) in every imaginable way. Standstill launch, rolling launch, 0-60, 30-60, 60-100, ... Not even close.

[Diversion]

Well I bought the 6-speed manual anyways.. :P It's fun to drive.. It's almost too easy.. You can go from 3rd to 6th gear, it's kind of joke with how long the gears are and all the torque available.