[Wildcat24]

Hey guys, I'm not trying to open up a which is better. I have read a handful of different people say that the 8at felt quicker to them than the 6mt. Is that just because of the quick shifts or what? They should pull the same shouldn't they? Or does one feel like it pulls harder for some reason. Like with the MPPK the auto gets 15 more torque. Are you really going to feel it accelerate any different in the 8at than the 6mt? Don't care which one is quicker quarter mile or 0-60. Basically, with MPPK (preferably since this is what I'm ordering) or stock, if you put both transmissions in second gear and hit it, are you going to feel any difference?

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Wildcat24

Hey guys, I'm not trying to open up a which is better. I have read a handful of different people say that the 8at felt quicker to them than the 6mt. Is that just because of the quick shifts or what? They should pull the same shouldn't they? Or does one feel like it pulls harder for some reason. Like with the MPPK the auto gets 15 more torque. Are you really going to feel it accelerate any different in the 8at than the 6mt? Don't care which one is quicker quarter mile or 0-60. Basically, with MPPK (preferably since this is what I'm ordering) or stock, if you put both transmissions in second gear and hit it, are you going to feel any difference?

If the 8at is in a mode or gear (not 2nd by default) that the torque converter is locked, there should be no difference. 15 ft-lbs of torque out of ~240 or ~300 won't make that much difference.

What really makes a difference is the traction at the wheels. That's why an xDrive car makes a little better time to 60 mph than a RWD car, and it's why on a drag strip that shifting BEFORE redline (to prevent wheelspin on the next gear) and a LSD make a big difference.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Considering the manual is a 6 speed, and the auto is an 8 speed a fair comparison would have to be one that both vehicles are sharing a near-identical gear ratio. I’m not sure that equals both in 2nd gear…

[Gio72]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Considering the manual is a 6 speed, and the auto is an 8 speed a fair comparison would have to be one that both vehicles are sharing a near-identical gear ratio. I’m not sure that equals both in 2nd gear…

No, as far as I know, gear ratios are totally different: they are shorter, of course, on the 8AT.
As a matter of fact, because of shorter gear ratios and quickness of steptronic, BMW claims 0"3 less in 0-62mph for the 8AT (for example, 5"1 vs 5"4 for 435i RWD and 4"9 vs 5"2 for AWD)

[Wildcat24]

Didn't mean to get hung up on a particular gear. Basically asking if the manual feels like it pulls as hard as the automatic? Are the quick shifts the only reason the auto "feels" faster

[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by Wildcat24

Didn't mean to get hung up on a particular gear. Basically asking if the manual feels like it pulls as hard as the automatic? Are the quick shifts the only reason the auto feels "faster"

I feel like the MT pulls slightly harder, but I felt the same way in the e92 with the MT vs the 6-speed Auto- and even then I believe the auto was said to be faster....
I have driven both cars before I pulled the trigger on my 435 MT and know the AT is supposedly faster to 60, but I felt the manual had the edge (even though it apparently doesn't).. it's funny because I have read some posts here where people say that the MT car felt like a "de-tuned version of the 435i/335i," absolutely ridiculous! I guess you should drive both, but good luck finding a MT car to test drive.

[v1k1ng01]

Originally Posted by Wildcat24

Hey guys, I'm not trying to open up a which is better. I have read a handful of different people say that the 8at felt quicker to them than the 6mt. Is that just because of the quick shifts or what? They should pull the same shouldn't they? Or does one feel like it pulls harder for some reason. Like with the MPPK the auto gets 15 more torque. Are you really going to feel it accelerate any different in the 8at than the 6mt? Don't care which one is quicker quarter mile or 0-60. Basically, with MPPK (preferably since this is what I'm ordering) or stock, if you put both transmissions in second gear and hit it, are you going to feel any difference?

The 8 speed ZF Auto simply delivers the power of the N55 to the wheels more effectively then the 6-speed manual can. It don't think that's always the case for the smaller engines though.

It's like the difference between comparing VHS to Blue Ray. They are both are effective at what they do, but one is analogue and the other is generations ahead. Newer isn't always better though, 6speed is still much more fun and enjoyable for the driving enthusiast then the ZF auto. You just wont be winning any drag races against any of your ZF auto equipped counterparts.

That said whether you feel the difference of the power between the 2 gear boxes is not really correct. It's more like: "the car can shift faster and better then you" with the auto which kinda takes away from the involvement of driving if you ask me.

[Wildcat24]

Yeah, that's the problem. Can't find one within 500 miles, lol. So I've only driven the sports auto. That's why I'm trusting your guys experience : )

[FC4]

I've driven both. Can't say there is a difference in acceleration feel, although they were a few days apart.

Theoretically the MT will be faster from a roll due to less drivetrain loss and lighter weight. This is the case when you compare two identical cars with different transmissions, and there are countless videos you can find. I can't think of one car which is offered with both where the AT is faster than the MT from a roll, and rolling acceleration is exactly the "pull" you're talking about.

[Wildcat24]

And for the record it's a 335i m sport with mpe and mppk I'm ordering

[chrisny]

Any difference in "pull" will be negligible. My 2 cents, if you like to shift yourself, get a MT. If you spend much time in traffic, get the sport auto.

[johndeere]

The AT times are faster than MT times. Of course there would then be a difference in how the car feels. The 8-AT should feel faster because it is faster. What's the point of debating gear ratios or anything else. It feels faster because it is faster, end of story.

[kingmonkey8]

M3 6MT vs M3 DCT

[rjpeaks]

Originally Posted by chrisny

Any difference in "pull" will be negligible. My 2 cents, if you like to shift yourself, get a MT. If you spend much time in traffic, get the sport auto.

x2

do you want to hit the gas and hold on, or go thru the gears.

personally, i don't see myself going back to auto for a while unless forced into one. but then again - my commute is about 10 mins.

test drive both.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

6MT vs DCT

Good video.

Notice how even with a below-average driver, they are dead even (don't even count race #4...it's obvious he blotched a shift). There are varying times when one starts to creep on the other, but that's all dependent on where they fall in the powerband at that second. Neither is "pulling"...their actual acceleration is as even as it gets. Put a better driver in the DCT and results would be no different. A better driver in the manual, and the results certainly would have been different. Additionally, here we're comparing a 6MT to one of the best performance-tuned DCTs on the market, not a 6MT to a run-of-the-mill torque convertor automatic which is available on every 328i.

Unfortunately, these are the things that stats racers can't see. I'm sure with the DCT M3's 0-60 MPH acceleration advantage over the 6MT, some would have thought the DCT would have ran away, but that's obviously not the case. 0-60 is just an indicator of how well a car can launch, not how hard it pulls. An AT/DCT will always have the advantage in 0-60, but not when it comes to acceleration at speed.

If an AT and MT 335i were to race in the same manner as the video above, I say the results will be just as similar.

[ThaiBruin]

0-60 is faster on an AT equipped F3x. It's reasonable to assume that an AT will "pull harder". I still went for an MT because... I like flogging my own gears. And really, it's a matter of "get it while you can". AT's are getting so good nowadays that I can't blame manufacturers for ditching MT.

[S4NoMore]

Originally Posted by Gio72

As a matter of fact, because of shorter gear ratios and quickness of steptronic, BMW claims 0"3 less in 0-62mph for the 8AT

Originally Posted by Wildcat24

Didn't mean to get hung up on a particular gear. Basically asking if the manual feels like it pulls as hard as the automatic? Are the quick shifts the only reason the auto "feels" faster

I would suppose that the auto might feel faster because of the shorter gear ratios. Quickness of shifting not so much, that really just makes up for the fact that it'll have to shift more times vs. the 6-speed.

With 8 shorter gears, when you are ripping down a highway onramp and reach the top of the powerband then take the next gear, the engine resumes pulling at a higher rpm and thus a higher power output. The 6MT drops a bit more and has to swing through lower rpms where there is presumably less power (I'm not looking at a dyno chart but it would be helpful, along with a comparison of rpm vs. speed for AT and MT).

[dc503]

The 8AT or autos in general don't lose boost between shifts like a manual car does, since load is never taken off the motor. There's other factors but that's the main one that differentiates the feel, especially given how quickly the ZF shifts. Empirically, the 8AT is faster and subjectively should feel faster.

[NISFAN]

Quite simply, the sensation you get when accelerating (pushing into seat) is a function of torque AT THE WHEELS. An 8 speed box will have close ratios compared to the 6MT, so is likely to have a higher torque amplification in each gear (due to the higher ratios), same way albeit to a lesser extent as the fact that 1st gear feels stronger than 3rd gear. This means that the average torque at the wheels will be higher with the 8 speed box, therefore feel faster......and is faster.

Technically, if you had a common gear ratio between the two cars (assuming the diff ratio is the same too), and did a roll on race in one gear, the MT should be marginally faster....a.) because it is lighter both physically and inertia wise b.) because it uses more efficient (simple) gear systems c.) It doesn't use engine power to drive an oil pump.....etc.

What you prefer is an entirely different subject.

[RoundelM3]

More to the point, if you're over the age of 18, why would it even matter? If it feels fast enough to you, what difference does it make? It's been a well-known fact for many years now that in a straight-line drag race, the automatic is going to get the jump on the stick every time, and in most cases, will hold that lead when everything else is the same on the two cars.

[Falafel Combo]

I previously had a 2013 f30 335i, M Sport, xDrive, sport auto. I now drive a 2013 f30 335i, M Sport, xDrive, 6MT.


The sport auto was WAY faster and pulled MUCH harder. No kidding. Sometimes I would get a headache after launching it a few times. I feel like it's not even close. To the point where I am closed to being convinced that the 6MT is de-tuned by BMW or something.


8AT > 6MT in that regards. But in everything else, 6MT >>>>>>>>>> 8AT!

[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

I previously had a 2013 f30 335i, M Sport, xDrive, sport auto. I now drive a 2013 f30 335i, M Sport, xDrive, 6MT.


The sport auto was WAY faster and pulled MUCH harder. No kidding. Sometimes I would get a headache after launching it a few times. I feel like it's not even close. To the point where I am closed to being convinced that the 6MT is de-tuned by BMW or something.


8AT > 6MT in that regards. But in everything else, 6MT >>>>>>>>>> 8AT!

Do you work for BMW, by chance? Perhaps there is something wrong with your engine.. or you haven't learned that launching the car in 3rd gear is not how it's done. I kid.. sort of