[JamesMA]

Reading all this is funny. If you do not like the F30, then do not buy one. BMW will not notice or care. That was my approach to the E90 series. I did not like anything about the car styling etc., so I just held on to my trusty old '02 325i waiting for something to change for the better (from my point of view of course).

It took 10 years and it was worth the wait as far as I am concerned. The F30 fixed everything that i thought was wrong with the last model series for me. As for driving enthusiast vs. status drivers, this has been the way that BMW has been going for more than 30 years. Ask my father in law, he has Been driving these cars since the 70s (he was not happy with where BMW went in the 90s at all, begrudgingly bought a '99 328 to replace his aging '82 320, was even less than thrilled when a side swip by a careless driver forced him into a '02 325 and believes that none of the current crop of cars are BMWs anymore, I hear it all the time).

I am sure that there are people who are disappointed with the retro look of the newest interaction of the Ford Mustang as well. As for me, I am going to buy one of those too in a few years.

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Wow. Judgemental much?

Myth about driving/performance enthusiasts?
Just because you don't truly know what one is, doesn't mean we don't exist.
I guess to you we're like UFO's and Big Foot. You've heard about them, but never experienced it yourself.

Of course you exist. It's just that on this forum you'd think there are more of you than there are of me whereas in the real world you're outnumbered 1000 to 1.

You're not a UFO or Big Foot. You're the Easter Bunny. Once a year you see the guy who usually mops the mall bathrooms putting on the fluffy white suit and hanging with children thinking he's the star of the show.

BJ

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The 135i is still available.
BMW added a 135iS for 2013.
This is likely the last year for the current 1 series coupe.
The new 2 series coupe will replace it, likely next year.

The 1M was VERY VERY limited. BMW made a mistake with that limitation.

There are 3 1M's for sale on eBay right now, doesn't appear to be that hard to find.

The 1 Series is everything that everyone is asking the 3 Series to be except....wait for it....it's too small! All the enthusiasts whine about how the 3 Series has gotten (sniff, sniff) too big but somehow the 1 Series is too small. BMW should make cars that are custom-fit to their owners. Like a custom shirt, add an inch of width here, take out a quarter inch of knee room there, lower the roof an eighth, hey can you take another millimeter off the windshield thickness?

BJ

[Robin_NL]

My dealer has 2 VO 1Ms and a white one fwiw.

Cheers
Robin

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The 3 series became the sport sedan icon it is NOW due to and because of it's driving dynamics, not it's luxury options.

You owe driving/performance enthusiasts a "thank you" for supporting BMW all these years, which allowed BMW to be as successful as they are, so that they could invest in creating a plusher, softer, larger, and creature feature options laden F30.

If the F30 were only available in luxury or modern, there is no way I would have bought one. I would have stuck with my 135i or gone with the S4.
Luckily, we driving enthusiasts can still get a sport or Msport.

Great post, agree with most of it.

I learned to drive on a 1980 7 Series which handled like a slotcar, was a terrific experience. So, yes, I appreciate the "thank you" of the older 3's which led to today's version that I love so much.

The last paragraph is the crux of the matter. BMW has enough choices in 1's and 3's to make everyone happy, especially the enthusiast with all the M's and M-Sports and 1's and 3's and 3 Sport Lines. Lot's to choose from, they can stop the whining.

BJ

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by bananachipz

BJ, for the last time... Stop making so much sense... I'm warning you.

Yes sir. I'll try to be ridiculous next time.

BJ

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by boltjames

The 1 Series is everything that everyone is asking the 3 Series to be except....wait for it....it's too small! All the enthusiasts whine about how the 3 Series has gotten (sniff, sniff) too big but somehow the 1 Series is too small.

BJ

I'm getting this viewpoint from some postings as well. What is wrong with 1-series E or F models. (If BMWNA don't import the range that is NOT the fault of BMW, but market forces in NA). F20 M135i ought to plug the gap nicely, IMO, for the 'driving enthusiast' who wants rear doors and the smaller car. This is where I find the 'enthusiast' bit falls apart, why not move to the 1-series and have the smaller car? Surely it IS the car you crave for.

I know in the UK the often heard complaint about the 3-series has been, "it isn't big enough". Now it is and a lot of happy folks, a decent 'mid range' BMW with best drive in class, perfect for so many 'enthusiasts' and the 'brand' user.

We have the 1-series in all forms, and as smaller cars in Europe are nearly all hatchbacks (3 or 5-doors) there is something for the BMW enthusiast who wants the smaller car, which to some, the current 3-series has outgrown. But here in the UK the problem with the 1-series is the same old complaint "it isn't big enough...", usually in the context of what is costs, against bigger models. BMW can't win. Perceptions hold that if purchase costs are high, it can't or mustn't be too small. "I can get a bigger BMW for just a few £'s/$'s more" is often quoted.

I'm a driving enthusiast, have been for over 40-years but still enjoy creature comforts as I drive, hence why my 'best' BMW was an E39 540i. The fact it was biggger and more luxurious than any 3-series, never once detracted from my enthusiasm for driving it.

F30, the nearest BMW to take over from that E39 feel, still pandering to a driving enthusiast who enjoys the balance of comfort and pleasure at the wheel. For me, much better than E90 M-sport models which can become tiring on the kind of roads I drive daily. Personally I believe after 35 years of driving BMW cars, BMW still has got it right for our times, model variations (and options) to cater for most types of drivers, M-cars for those who must have the very best driving experience BMW can offer.

I really can't see where the gripes come from, with more variety today than ever we have had.

HighlandPete

[batislav]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I really can't see where the gripes come from, with more variety today than ever we have had.

HighlandPete

I don't think everyone likes variety is a good thing. When the customer base broadens it threatens the core group of buyers who established the market. When you are afraid of the product drifting, seeing a broader customer base illustrates the drift.

I don't mind the various lines. I drove lots of varieties of f30s before deciding which one I wanted. The various iterations did seem like different cars sometimes because they felt so dissimilar, but in the end I'm very happy with the car I have.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by boltjames

BMW sells 350,000 3 Series a year. Over a 6 year lifespan, the score is:

2,100,000 3 Series

18,000 M3's

Boy, what a massive success. Oh, and half of those were sold to little old ladies who thought the color was pretty and it was a special edition.

BJ

Of course it was a success! I think you are the only guy on the planet that would not see that the E30 M3 was a huge success. First of all the E30 production was just slightly over half of what today's 3 series production is per year. Also, the M3 was added very late in to the production run of the e30, only to make 5000 units, to allow them to enter it as a production car in to the racing series. The very fact that they sold almost 4 times as many as planned speaks volumes! Not to mention that they probably could have sold a lot more if they were tooled up for it, or had realized that there was such a demand for it. You can only increase production by so much, when you start with a certain target.

At any rate, based on the production data from back then, the M3 was about 2.3% of total 3 series sales per year, and that was pretty much without them even trying to make a lot of them or a car that appeals to a broader enthusiast base. That was 95% race car for the street, to meet the requirements set by the FIA. Even with all these odds staked against it, it is hardly the 1 in 500,000 you are claiming!

I do agree with you about what the 3 series is, has to be and should be, I'M NOT ARGUING THAT, as a matter of fact, I don't think anyone here is arguing that. I'm going to say it one more time, after that I give up. BMW did a great job with the F30 and it appears to be a wonderful car. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe I have bashed, criticized or wished it to fail at any time in this thread, so why to you keep on suggestion so?

All I'm saying is that it has grown enough, that it is time for a sportier, smaller and mostly lighter version to be added in to the lineup. Like a 2 series as a few have suggested. I think BMW has done well enough with the 1-series to lift all doubts that there is a market for it. They did swell with the 1, despite it being an ugly duckling and as far as I know not even all that much lighter. Just imagine how well a nicely styled 2 series would sell! I'll bet my bottom dollar it would sell more than the 5series GT, the X6 and the Gran Coupe combined.

Lastly, it is a bit ironic for your profile picture to include the M logo, when all you seem to care about is a plush mainstream BMW.

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by Sauber F1

I do agree with you about what the 3 series is, has to be and should be, I'M NOT ARGUING THAT, as a matter of fact, I don't think anyone here is arguing that. I'm going to say it one more time, after that I give up. BMW did a great job with the F30 and it appears to be a wonderful car. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe I have bashed, criticized or wished it to fail at any time in this thread, so why to you keep on suggestion so?

All I'm saying is that it has grown enough, that it is time for a sportier, smaller and mostly lighter version to be added in to the lineup. Like a 2 series as a few have suggested. I think BMW has done well enough with the 1-series to lift all doubts that there is a market for it. They did swell with the 1, despite it being an ugly duckling and as far as I know not even all that much lighter. Just imagine how well a nicely styled 2 series would sell! I'll bet my bottom dollar it would sell more than the 5series GT, the X6 and the Gran Coupe combined.

Thanks for clearing that up. You can stop lobbying BMW to come out with the 1½ Series now. Either get an F30 and deal with the couple of inches of size or get a 1 Series and deal with the couple of inches of undersize. Thinking BMW is going to have a car to fit every persons' shape and size is utterly unrealistic.

BJ

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by Sauber F1

Lastly, it is a bit ironic for your profile picture to include the M logo, when all you seem to care about is a plush mainstream BMW.

I drive an ///M328i, the perfect blend of sport and luxury. The ///M logo on the trunklid makes Mr. & Mrs. Camry think I'm driving a special edition and it gets me tons of street cred from other BMW drivers and driving enthusiasts.

BJ

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by RPM90

...... In subsequent test drives I tried "comfort" and "Eco" modes and was shocked at how much they sucked. I can see how someone's initial experience with the F30 can give them a not so great experience. It's all about the drive mode.
First, initial impressions do weigh heavily on some people.

My thing is that a potential driver needs to test a 328i or 335i in sport line or Msport ONLY. Then, the drive mode NEEDS to be in sport or sport+. Don't bother with other modes. Then you'll have a much better impression of what the F30 is all about.

I understand what you are saying, personally I can't grasp that test drives don't sort this sort of issue out.

For me, I take the same driving route for any test drive. It gives a baseline you don't get with ramdom drives. I cover about 80 miles on every kind of road, terrain and surface I'm likely to encounter in my driving. Try any modes/options available on the demo car and make an assessment on that basis. Ignore trim levels, as that is all so personal and I wouldn't dream of judging it in a negative way because the model (say the Modern Line) is not to my taste. Simple, I wouldn't choose it, but some may love it to bits and desire it with the same feelings as someone else would a Sport Line.

I want to try Comfort, ECO mode, etc., that is where IMO, BMW scored and added the ace card. We can choose our mode. We carry Grandma or the sleeping Grandsons, we can cruise along in comfort mode. Out for a solo drive down the Glens, we have a mode to suit our mood. I love the options, simply at the touch of a switch. WELL DONE BMW, at last a car for all moods, in one package. Just spec' it correctly, to get all we need as a driver.

I feel as a long term owner and driver of BMW, I ought to write to BMW and commend them on doing such a fine job, and giving this BMW enthusiast and loyal customer exactly the options I desire and can specify in my BMW.

Again, WELL DONE BMW ... my taking part in customer surveys has been listened to.


HighlandPete

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by boltjames

There are 3 1M's for sale on eBay right now, doesn't appear to be that hard to find.

The 1 Series is everything that everyone is asking the 3 Series to be except....wait for it....it's too small! All the enthusiasts whine about how the 3 Series has gotten (sniff, sniff) too big but somehow the 1 Series is too small. BMW should make cars that are custom-fit to their owners. Like a custom shirt, add an inch of width here, take out a quarter inch of knee room there, lower the roof an eighth, hey can you take another millimeter off the windshield thickness?

BJ

Sure they aren't hard to find, if you want to spend $10k over sticker for a used car.

No it isn't too small, the 1 is just ugly. Styling was not a priority on this car. The 1M, with the flared fenders and M bodywork looks OK. I don't think we would a have this conversation if I could go to the dealer and buy one right now.

[boltjames]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I feel as a long term owner and driver of BMW, I ought to write to BMW and commend them on doing such a fine job, and giving this BMW enthusiast and loyal customer exactly the options I desire and can specify in my BMW.

Again, WELL DONE BMW ... my taking part in customer surveys has been listened to.

HighlandPete

Preach it, Brother Highland. Preach it.

It's a great car. Truly is. Can't wait for mine to get on a damned boat already.

BJ

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by boltjames

I drive an ///M328i, the perfect blend of sport and luxury. The ///M logo on the trunklid makes Mr. & Mrs. Camry think I'm driving a special edition and it gets me tons of street cred from other BMW drivers and driving enthusiasts.

BJ

What you call street cred is what I would call pretentious! And it still is ironic, or hypocritical considering everything you wrote.
BTW, the M logo is crooked on there

[AWF30MSPORT]

Originally Posted by Sauber F1

What you call street cred is what I would call pretentious! And it still is ironic, or hypocritical considering everything you wrote.
BTW, the M logo is crooked on there

I think maybe you are missing a bit of BJ's sense of humor and sarcasm...I think he's poking a bit of fun at pretentiousness...just read the end of his signature. Cracks me up.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by lukeb817

I think maybe you are missing a bit of BJ's sense of humor and sarcasm...

Think "Troll" and all will fall into place.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by lukeb817

I think maybe you are missing a bit of BJ's sense of humor and sarcasm...I think he's poking a bit of fun at pretentiousness...just read the end of his signature. Cracks me up.

You are probably right, but it is hard to know when to take him serious and when not, based on all the things he writes.

[gerbs]

Originally Posted by Feanor

What a pointless debate!

[JoeyO]

Originally Posted by boltjames

...Please awaken from the coma that BMW has put you in since 1985.

Nice, now I know I know I've won the discussion when the personal insults fly.

[westcory]

My biggest issue with my F30 is build quality and noise. I have had my car in the shop for four of eight weeks. The road noise, although only a couple dbs more, is very much louder to my ear.

[jbass524]

I'm the guy who said to buy an E36 and customize it to your needs. It's the perfect BMW if that means light, nimble, and raw. Mine is a track-only car.

I ironically, I just bought an F30 yesterday. I bought the base with leather. Sport seats, BMW wheels and m-sport is pointless for me as I want better than what BMW offers. After a little suspension w/ added camber, wheels and tires, and a tune, the F30 will be a lot like the BMW of yore but with some luxury bits that I do like. This makes sense to me.

I think someone said something about customized BMWs for everyone. This is the exact customization I want. It will be a car that is economical, nimble, powerful, luxurious, and can probably go sub 2:00 at Sears Point while being a phenomenal daily driver. Perfect!