[MikeTerp]

Originally Posted by MassBimmer

It will have bragging rights over the N54, to the tune of 150 horsepower based on this report.

While the legend of the 3 series has been built around inline 6-cylinder engines, I'm very intrigued to learn more about the 4-cylinder mills that are planned for the 3. If it's turbo charged and puts out 250+ horsepower, I don't care how many cylinders it has..

Agree that it will be interesting to see how BMW presents the new 3er; however, assuming the reports are correct and the new car is longer/heavier than the E9X models it replaces, the 4-bangers will have a hard job. The love affair with small engine turbos is great until people buy them, but trying to get "performance" out of them means keeping your foot in the throttle. Do that and watch the gas gauge drop. The published EPA numbers may beat those of the E9X sixes, but I bet only if people drive on the "back side" of the throttle. Turbos suck gas.

[CarForHire]

The E90 M3 is so popular though..

[jocamryn]

Because some of us want the performance that an M3 offers AND passenger room. Currently it's several thousand $$ cheaper than the coupe as well.


I'd go to this, but I just can't see "upgrading" to another 3er, even if it's an M. X6 is next for me.

Originally Posted by BGM

what with all the people up in arms about no m3 saloon?
the 4 doors look awful imo, it is far better suited to a coupe..

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by JIM E92

+1 I'm disappointed in losing the double wishbones. Also displeased in platform sharing.

No 3 series has ever had double wishbones up front, including the one you own.

And as far as the platform goes, who the hell cares? The 3 series and 1 series already share some parts anyway. It won't have any detremental effect on the cars.

[magbarn]

Originally Posted by MikeTerp

Agree that it will be interesting to see how BMW presents the new 3er; however, assuming the reports are correct and the new car is longer/heavier than the E9X models it replaces, the 4-bangers will have a hard job. The love affair with small engine turbos is great until people buy them, but trying to get "performance" out of them means keeping your foot in the throttle. Do that and watch the gas gauge drop. The published EPA numbers may beat those of the E9X sixes, but I bet only if people drive on the "back side" of the throttle. Turbos suck gas.

Not to mention the fact I've never driven a "smooth" 4. They will always inherently less balanced than a inline-6 and they also sound like crap.

[the_stranger]

I'm disappointed with the hp of the M3. Just 30 more than the current one. I was expecting close to 500, atleast close to 470

[magbarn]

Anyone read Edmunds' take on the F30? If true, they're claiming that BMW will be following Audi with ALL regular 3-series getting wheezy 4-banger turbo's. Only the M3 will be sticking with the straight six. Yuck! Last thing I want in the next gen 3 is an Honda sounding engine, albeit with more torque, but with a narrower powerband.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by magbarn

Anyone read Edmunds' take on the F30? If true, they're claiming that BMW will be following Audi with ALL regular 3-series getting wheezy 4-banger turbo's. Only the M3 will be sticking with the straight six. Yuck! Last thing I want in the next gen 3 is an Honda sounding engine, albeit with more torque, but with a narrower powerband.

I checked out the article. Here's a link for anyone else who's curious:

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...arly-look.html

All I can say is that I call BS on the all 4 cyl 3 series line-up. The M3 will probably have at least 475 hp, and the turbo inline 4 will probably debut with about 250hp in its highest tune. There is definitely going to be something in between there. The reason Audi now offers the A4 with no V6 (in the US anyway) is because they have the S4 in between the A4 and RS4(well, the RS4 is gone now, but you get me), and prior to that almost everyone chose the turbo 4 over the N/A V6 anyway.

[magbarn]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I checked out the article. Here's a link for anyone else who's curious:

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...arly-look.html

All I can say is that I call BS on the all 4 cyl 3 series line-up. The M3 will probably have at least 475 hp, and the turbo inline 4 will probably debut with about 250hp in its highest tune. There is definitely going to be something in between there. The reason Audi now offers the A4 with no V6 (in the US anyway) is because they have the S4 in between the A4 and RS4(well, the RS4 is gone now, but you get me), and prior to that almost everyone chose the turbo 4 over the N/A V6 anyway.

The reason they did was the Audi NA V6 never really kept up with BMW's Inline 6's (in the corresponding generation, of course) OTOH, the N52 is much more refined mill than the A4's sole 4-banger. It also has similar power/mpg with better reliability.

[KL07RPH]

Originally Posted by magbarn

Anyone read Edmunds' take on the F30? If true, they're claiming that BMW will be following Audi with ALL regular 3-series getting wheezy 4-banger turbo's. Only the M3 will be sticking with the straight six. Yuck! Last thing I want in the next gen 3 is an Honda sounding engine, albeit with more torque, but with a narrower powerband.

+1. All the more reason I don't like the current A4 (aside from the generic rear styling) was the lack of a 6 cylinder engine. IMHO no turbo can overcome the smoothness of 6 cylinders...

[UdubBadger]

so they decide to make a GT version of the 3 which is FUGLY... yet they won't keep making the M3 sedan which is gorgeous.

I swear to God its like they just want to make us drive whatever they put out instead of putting out stuff we'd want to drive.

[KL07RPH]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

so they decide to make a GT version of the 3 which is FUGLY... yet they won't keep making the M3 sedan which is gorgeous.

I swear to God its like they just want to make us drive whatever they put out instead of putting out stuff we'd want to drive.

+1 on the fugly GT!

I swear BMW has lost its core values and is simply fishing for more sales. First was the X3, then the God awful X6, and now GT variants of the 5 and next gen 3

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by magbarn

The reason they did was the Audi NA V6 never really kept up with BMW's Inline 6's (in the corresponding generation, of course) OTOH, the N52 is much more refined mill than the A4's sole 4-banger. It also has similar power/mpg with better reliability.

Perhaps that's part of it too, but in any case it all boils to down to a business decision. They weren't making enough money off the N/A V6 offering to justify it anymore. Audi could provide a naturally aspirated V6 with more power of course, but they have most likely decided there is not a strong business case for that option either.

[stressdoc]

M3 sedan or touring is the quintessential bimmer IMO. A four door practical sports car that drives like a Porsche. And I would have liked the 5 series double wishbone, but understand the cost savings.

[stressdoc]

M3 sedan or touring is the quintessential bimmer IMO. A four door practical sports car that drives like a Porsche. I would have liked the 5 series double wishbone, but understand the cost savings. And there is a ~278 bhp version of the turbo 4, not sure we will see it in USA, hoping for the Z2 to have it.

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by KL07RPH

+1 on the fugly GT!

I swear BMW has lost its core values and is simply fishing for more sales. First was the X3, then the God awful X6, and now GT variants of the 5 and next gen 3

see the x3 found a niche though, I'm still not sure bout the X6... I just don't like the styling and think its stupid to have something the same size (smaller on the inside) raised up SUV, the X5 is just as big and raised and the 5 series wagon is there if you don't like the higher up SUV but want the space and Xdrive. With that being said, the X1 looks like it will do well as a smaller subaru inspired type of wagon/suv crossover. The price will probably have a LOT to do with its success. But this GT bullshit is stupid, if people wanted more room in the back from a sedan, they'd buy an E91 or F11 and both of the wagons (IMO) look GOOD unlike this weird ass bubble looking thing they call a GT. I never thought I'd see the day when BMW takes cues from GM (Malibu Maxx)

[CarForHire]

Did you forget the sound of an E46 M3?

[CarForHire]

Did you forget the sound of an E46 M3?

[JIM E92]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

No 3 series has ever had double wishbones up front, including the one you own.

And as far as the platform goes, who the hell cares? The 3 series and 1 series already share some parts anyway. It won't have any detremental effect on the cars.

You are right technically it's a double pivot suspension type...which is essentially a double wishbone with separated lower suspension arms. This configuration is even better than a standard double wishbone as it adds compliance on uneven road surfaces. It's clearly superior to the standard Macpherson strut in EVERY measurable category other than cost.

Do you think for a second that BMW will take the savings and pass it along to us? Hell no! The next generation Three will cost more and you will get less. The arguments for it are all in the name of maximizing profits at the expense of performance.

Look, we are supposed to be an enthusiasts group here, if we don't care who will? We are the ones who should appreciate a great suspension. We should care that they saving design costs by sharing platforms. We pay a premium for these vehicles and that money should go to design--not to short cuts or compromises.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by JIM E92

You are right technically it's a double pivot suspension type...which is essentially a double wishbone with separated lower suspension arms. This configuration is even better than a standard double wishbone as it adds compliance on uneven road surfaces. It's clearly superior to the standard Macpherson strut in EVERY measurable category other than cost.

Wait, but even if what you are saying it technically accurate (and honestly I am not sure one way or the other, and don't have time to look it up), exactly what is your point here?

Are you saying that the article expressly mentions BMW changing the suspension to a different type than it is today and has been for years? Because that's not what I see at all. You're car has struts and so will the next generation car. That's all that article is saying. Absolutely no technical details beyond that are given. And frankly, even that much is far from confirmed since this article contains info that is shaky at best and it is way to early for this stuff to be confirmed with any certainty.

[JIM E92]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Wait, but even if what you are saying it technically accurate (and honestly I am not sure one way or the other, and don't have time to look it up), exactly what is your point here?

Are you saying that the article expressly mentions BMW changing the suspension to a different type than it is today and has been for years? Because that's not what I see at all. You're car has struts and so will the next generation car. That's all that article is saying. Absolutely no technical details beyond that are given. And frankly, even that much is far from confirmed since this article contains info that is shaky at best and it is way to early for this stuff to be confirmed with any certainty.

The article does expressly mention that they are changing to a different suspension type. Our cars have upper and lower control arms which by definition make it a coil spring and damper type suspension--not a strut. We do not have front struts. A strut replaces the top arm(s) with a fixed unit that has no freedom to articulate in the same manner.

The point is BMW is watering down the essence of Ultimate Driving Machine. We pay for a premium product. I'm not pleased that to save money they are using the same suspension design as a Corolla.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by JIM E92

We do not have front struts.

Dude.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...94&hg=31&fg=10

WTF?

The point is BMW is watering down the essence of Ultimate Driving Machine.

BMW isn't doing anything. BMW didn't post a press release. It's a speculative article. You really are being way, way over dramatic.