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      04-14-2012, 09:31 AM   #111
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Respecting the person's choice? You have the choice to push the off button. What about the choice of parents wanting a better and cleaner world for their kids? What about this person's choice about wanted less dependance on foreign oil. We really are becoming a bunch of spoiled shits. We crap on our planet and don't care. Our cars are much faster than those 20 years ago.....10 years ago....even 5 years ago and yet economy really hasn't improved at the same pace. There are CAFE standard in the US and BMW is working hard to meet those upcoming standards. Global warming is real. That is an unequivocal fact. The question is how much we are adding to it and how much of it is a natural warming/cooling cycle. It is prudent to preserve our resources and work to keep our planet in better condition, for ourselves and our kids. This doesn't mean that you have to buy a Prius or a Nissan Leaf but having A.S.S as standard and trying to get people to use it is a good thing. Every little bit helps.

And the "it's my money" argument is as lame as it gets. By that methodology, the rich shouldn't have to follow any rules because, hey, it's their money and they should be able to do whatever they want. Sad.
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      04-14-2012, 10:22 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
I have no problem with the ASS, as long as I can disable it, and it STAYS disabled. The fact that it re-engages to the "On" position is what's troubling. If I want to "waste" fuel, it's my money, let me waste it. If I want to "pollute" the environment, let me pollute it. Some say it's impacting the environment, I say it isn't. It's not about money or the environment. It's about options, and respecting the person's choice.
With all due respect, I just don't understand this mentality. I was born in the United States, live in the United States, but I feel saddened that there's this absolute reticence to cooperate with anyone else. The environment is not ours/yours to pollute. Why wouldn't you want to try and make things better for our children/grandchildren? I guess I've always aligned with the Jeep saying 'Tread Lightly'...this earth is ours to protect and revere, not to destroy and pollute. It's a responsibility as humans, and I for one, am glad that our government is finally taking part in that responsibility.
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      04-14-2012, 10:23 AM   #113
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This topic is surely highlighting there are very different viewpoints around 'eco' technology.

Surely we are ALL conscious that burning fuel pollutes, so any saving is better for our health, and the health of others. Folks are literally gasping for breath in some environments and the poisons from combustion are not helping at all.

So just to do our little part, if it helps just a few to live a better quality of life, surely it is our responsibility to engage with.

I'm a car enthusiast and love driving, but to move from an I6 to a smaller engine with added eco credentials is a very small sacrifice, compared to the real issues of using up more fuel than necessary.

And we chatter on about a switch, being set to the 'wrong' default.

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      04-14-2012, 10:28 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Just a 3 View Post
And as has been explained a 1000 times, it would have been a lot better if bmw forgoed whatever little or none mpg advantage ASS gives them in EPA measurements, and given drivers a choice to disable it. In any case, haven't we seen the mpg debacle - dropping highway mpg by 3, and throwing the much ballyhooed number in the dustbin. Add to that low rolling resistance tires - how many more mpg does that choice give us. Oh sorry, I thought I was talking about a sport sedan.
I know you don't like the system but you are in denial about its fuel economy benefits and how CAFE regulations work. If you don't like the fuel economy features on the F30 get an E90.
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      04-14-2012, 10:29 AM   #115
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Yes, it seems like the conversation is existential, but in reality, it's the core of the argument. Can people put aside their petty selfishness to understand that Efficient Dynamics is not only part of saving us money, but also part of 'doing the right thing'. This conversation has illustrated the exact reason that BMW hasn't allowed this setting to be switched off by default: there are still a lot of people that don't give a $hit about the bigger picture, and if you make them push a button to disable something...maybe, just maybe, they'll forget out of laziness and realize that the Auto Stop/Start feature isn't that big of a deal after-all.....and that only helps everyone. Flame on, but that's my $.02.
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      04-14-2012, 10:36 AM   #116
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i'd have zero problem with having start stop on by default if it werent for the fact that there have been quite a few reports of it not performing very well.
unless the tech functions at 100%, i'd prefer the option to have it off by default.

otherwise, i'm all for efficiency and would have no problem using the tech.
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      04-14-2012, 10:37 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
i'd have zero problem with having start stop on by default if it werent for the fact that there have been quite a few reports of it not performing very well.
unless the tech functions at 100%, i'd prefer the option to have it off by default.

otherwise, i'm all for efficiency and would have no problem using the tech.
I can't argue with you there. That's why I'd like to see this topic actually talk more about the specific issues that people are having; what went wrong...the conditions at the time, and the frequency of occurrences. It's getting hard to separate real issues from whining at this point.
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      04-14-2012, 11:01 AM   #118
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It does not perform well and should be off by default. The shudder on restart is not acceptable.
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      04-14-2012, 11:08 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micknugget
Respecting the person's choice? You have the choice to push the off button. What about the choice of parents wanting a better and cleaner world for their kids? What about this person's choice about wanted less dependance on foreign oil. We really are becoming a bunch of spoiled shits. We crap on our planet and don't care. Our cars are much faster than those 20 years ago.....10 years ago....even 5 years ago and yet economy really hasn't improved at the same pace. There are CAFE standard in the US and BMW is working hard to meet those upcoming standards. Global warming is real. That is an unequivocal fact. The question is how much we are adding to it and how much of it is a natural warming/cooling cycle. It is prudent to preserve our resources and work to keep our planet in better condition, for ourselves and our kids. This doesn't mean that you have to buy a Prius or a Nissan Leaf but having A.S.S as standard and trying to get people to use it is a good thing. Every little bit helps.

And the "it's my money" argument is as lame as it gets. By that methodology, the rich shouldn't have to follow any rules because, hey, it's their money and they should be able to do whatever they want. Sad.
Global warming is real? I thought you earth worms were fully discredited and shamed when the near lot of you was caught forging the evidence.

Y'all should turn in your efficient dynamics vehicle in for a bicycle.

I mean really. Do you have any understanding on how much pollution was created at the hands of your so called "efficient" BMW 4 banger?

If you really mean what you say, then turn in your keys and go get a bike helmet. Of course, don't pedal too hard our your body might pollute the earth with excess carbon dioxide.

We are all consumers and we are all polluters. We should all do our best to reduce pollution. But, to sit here and tell me that you are better than I am because your dinky 4 banger shuts off at a stoplight for a few seconds is nothing less than hypocritical.

Use of the start stop function most probably moves the issue to another area. Higher maintenance and less engine life. You don't think our forefathers that developed engines in the 1960 and 1970s could not have come up with that crappy idea to power off the engine at every red light?

ASS is what you get when you run out of ideas and you want to appease the hypocrites.

Either give up your oil burning ways altogether or shut up. Think of all the coal burning going on to power the global Internet and that by you earth worms not posting this crap how much fuel we will save!
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      04-14-2012, 11:10 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by svache View Post
So many complaints about ASS and I really don't see why.

I was driving in town the last few days and the wait time in front of a red light here in Honolulu is easily 2-3 minutes if not longer. I didn't feel it as a bother or anything that my car shuts down for a short period,...
I am not opposed at all to the concept of ASS. After three days of driving my F30, I think it is the implementation (or algorithm) that needs a little tweaking.

I have no problem with it shutting down for the 2-3 minute stop you mentioned, but the shutdowns for the shorter stops don't seem very productive.

I'll give you an example. My house is two homes down from an intersection with a stop sign on my side. So yesterday morning (50 degrees) I start the car, back out of the driveway and drive about 60 feet to the stop sign to make my right turn. Bang. ASS shuts down the engine. I let off the brake and immediately make my turn and drive off. I was not stopped more than two seconds tops as there was no cross traffic.

This scenario can't possibly have saved one drop of fuel and is needless wear on components. Plus the car was still cold and I was cold.

I think the ASS parameters need a little refining.
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      04-14-2012, 12:37 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
Respecting the person's choice? You have the choice to push the off button. What about the choice of parents wanting a better and cleaner world for their kids? What about this person's choice about wanted less dependance on foreign oil. We really are becoming a bunch of spoiled shits. We crap on our planet and don't care. Our cars are much faster than those 20 years ago.....10 years ago....even 5 years ago and yet economy really hasn't improved at the same pace. There are CAFE standard in the US and BMW is working hard to meet those upcoming standards. Global warming is real. That is an unequivocal fact. The question is how much we are adding to it and how much of it is a natural warming/cooling cycle. It is prudent to preserve our resources and work to keep our planet in better condition, for ourselves and our kids. This doesn't mean that you have to buy a Prius or a Nissan Leaf but having A.S.S as standard and trying to get people to use it is a good thing. Every little bit helps.

And the "it's my money" argument is as lame as it gets. By that methodology, the rich shouldn't have to follow any rules because, hey, it's their money and they should be able to do whatever they want. Sad.
So, really, the bottom line is you'd have a problem if I turned it "Off" each and every time, right? Yes or no?
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      04-14-2012, 12:39 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Global warming is real? I thought you earth worms were fully discredited and shamed when the near lot of you was caught forging the evidence.

Y'all should turn in your efficient dynamics vehicle in for a bicycle.

I mean really. Do you have any understanding on how much pollution was created at the hands of your so called "efficient" BMW 4 banger?

If you really mean what you say, then turn in your keys and go get a bike helmet. Of course, don't pedal too hard our your body might pollute the earth with excess carbon dioxide.

We are all consumers and we are all polluters. We should all do our best to reduce pollution. But, to sit here and tell me that you are better than I am because your dinky 4 banger shuts off at a stoplight for a few seconds is nothing less than hypocritical.

Use of the start stop function most probably moves the issue to another area. Higher maintenance and less engine life. You don't think our forefathers that developed engines in the 1960 and 1970s could not have come up with that crappy idea to power off the engine at every red light?

ASS is what you get when you run out of ideas and you want to appease the hypocrites.

Either give up your oil burning ways altogether or shut up. Think of all the coal burning going on to power the global Internet and that by you earth worms not posting this crap how much fuel we will save!
It's pretty obvious that you didn't read what I wrote because you're saying things that i clearly didn't and I don't at all appreciate it

1) To whether Global warming is real, only ignorant people who can't look up simple data think that it's not. Go to any research site that shows average temperatures over the year. It is also fact that as the temperature warms, storms get more severe. Some scientists faked some information about how bad it was and how bad it was going to get. What I said was "Global warming is real. That is an unequivocal fact. The question is how much we are adding to it and how much of it is a natural warming/cooling cycle."

I don't know if we are causing the warming but we can at least try to no add to it. If being educated and informed about the subject makes me an earth worm, then what does that make you? A slug?

2) Your bicycle and hypocrite comments further show that you're an idiot. I said "It is prudent to preserve our resources and work to keep our planet in better condition, for ourselves and our kids. This doesn't mean that you have to buy a Prius or a Nissan Leaf but having A.S.S as standard and trying to get people to use it is a good thing. Every little bit helps." I didn't say that i was better than you. I didn't say that you had to use ASS but i did say it should be there.

3) You are the ultimate hypocrite by claiming that it's your money and you should be able to spend (waste it however you want and then to saying " We should all do our best to reduce pollution."

Maybe you don't understand that even if ASS saves 10 gallons of gas per year time 200,000 cars = 2 million gallons. Add to that the gas saved by using the turbo 4 vs. the 6, the low rolling resistance tires, etc and you are looking at millions of gallons. I just don't see how that's a bad thing.

You whole complaint is based on pressing a button.....once....when you get into your car. How many times do you change your radio station...or make a phone call......or use your freakin blinker. I mean come on.
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      04-14-2012, 12:48 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
So, really, the bottom line is you'd have a problem if I turned it "Off" each and every time, right? Yes or no?
I don't have a problem with you turning it off. That is you right and there's no law against it. My problem is with those who say it's terrible, it shouldn't be there, and that by having it there somehow impinges on their rights.

It's the same with recycling. Every house should be given a recycling bin and encouraged to use it. They should not however be forced to use it.
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      04-14-2012, 12:58 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Global warming is real? I thought you earth worms were fully discredited and shamed when the near lot of you was caught forging the evidence.

Y'all should turn in your efficient dynamics vehicle in for a bicycle.

I mean really. Do you have any understanding on how much pollution was created at the hands of your so called "efficient" BMW 4 banger?

If you really mean what you say, then turn in your keys and go get a bike helmet. Of course, don't pedal too hard our your body might pollute the earth with excess carbon dioxide.

We are all consumers and we are all polluters. We should all do our best to reduce pollution. But, to sit here and tell me that you are better than I am because your dinky 4 banger shuts off at a stoplight for a few seconds is nothing less than hypocritical.

Use of the start stop function most probably moves the issue to another area. Higher maintenance and less engine life. You don't think our forefathers that developed engines in the 1960 and 1970s could not have come up with that crappy idea to power off the engine at every red light?

ASS is what you get when you run out of ideas and you want to appease the hypocrites.

Either give up your oil burning ways altogether or shut up. Think of all the coal burning going on to power the global Internet and that by you earth worms not posting this crap how much fuel we will save!


It's this sort of arrogant, angry reasoning (or lack of) that had most of Europe laughing at George Bush Jr and his neocon mates while they were in power, and why most of us still laugh at Fox News.

Last edited by Feanor; 04-14-2012 at 01:17 PM..
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      04-14-2012, 01:07 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
I don't have a problem with you turning it off. That is you right and there's no law against it. My problem is with those who say it's terrible, it shouldn't be there, and that by having it there somehow impinges on their rights.

It's the same with recycling. Every house should be given a recycling bin and encouraged to use it. They should not however be forced to use it.
Fair enough. If you're fine with people turning it "Off", I'm fine with people using it. Seems reasonable.

Just one more question, are you good with the people who want to default it "Off", or do you insist that they have to turn it "Off" every time? It stand to reason, if you're good with me not using it, then you can't possibly object to it remaining "Off', right?
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      04-14-2012, 01:25 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
Fair enough. If you're fine with people turning it "Off", I'm fine with people using it. Seems reasonable.

Just one more question, are you good with the people who want to default it "Off", or do you insist that they have to turn it "Off" every time? It stand to reason, if you're good with me not using it, then you can't possibly object to it remaining "Off', right?
Again, if you want to disable it permanently, that's just fine. It might void you warranty though and that's between you and BMW. I'm guessing that somebody will quickly come up with a way to disable it permanently anyways. I would expect it to be permanently disabled on 5-10% of all 3 series. That also means 90-95% will have it and a good portion of them will use it, and be ok with it. I'm not an eco-nazi as somebody else seems to claim.
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      04-14-2012, 01:34 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
Again, if you want to disable it permanently, that's just fine. It might void you warranty though and that's between you and BMW. I'm guessing that somebody will quickly come up with a way to disable it permanently anyways. I would expect it to be permanently disabled on 5-10% of all 3 series. That also means 90-95% will have it and a good portion of them will use it, and be ok with it. I'm not an eco-nazi as somebody else seems to claim.
Fair enough. It's all about choices. This same fundamental argument has been had over leather vs. leatherette........and rap music! Even if you hate it, ya gotta respect other's choices.
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      04-14-2012, 01:42 PM   #128
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Fair enough. It's all about choices. This same fundamental argument has been had over leather vs. leatherette........and rap music! Even if you hate it, ya gotta respect other's choices.
Absolutely. Except for those half wits that open their boiled eggs at the pointy end.
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      04-14-2012, 02:11 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post
I am not opposed at all to the concept of ASS. After three days of driving my F30, I think it is the implementation (or algorithm) that needs a little tweaking.

I have no problem with it shutting down for the 2-3 minute stop you mentioned, but the shutdowns for the shorter stops don't seem very productive.

I'll give you an example. My house is two homes down from an intersection with a stop sign on my side. So yesterday morning (50 degrees) I start the car, back out of the driveway and drive about 60 feet to the stop sign to make my right turn. Bang. ASS shuts down the engine. I let off the brake and immediately make my turn and drive off. I was not stopped more than two seconds tops as there was no cross traffic.

This scenario can't possibly have saved one drop of fuel and is needless wear on components. Plus the car was still cold and I was cold.

I think the ASS parameters need a little refining.
You may have a point here. I have to agree that it happened a couple of times yesterday when I stopped, immediately let go of the breaks again as I could drive further and the engine went on-off-on in just about a second or so, that does not help indeed. Especially stop signs may prove a bit difficult with this system (and, unfortunately, we have them more than any other sign here). Perhaps in the future it will be combined with the street sign recognition system so it does not get activated at stop signs, it might be an idea =)
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      04-14-2012, 02:28 PM   #130
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You may have a point here. I have to agree that it happened a couple of times yesterday when I stopped, immediately let go of the breaks again as I could drive further and the engine went on-off-on in just about a second or so, that does not help indeed. Especially stop signs may prove a bit difficult with this system (and, unfortunately, we have them more than any other sign here). Perhaps in the future it will be combined with the street sign recognition system so it does not get activated at stop signs, it might be an idea =)
I agree with you but i think that stop sign recognition might be overkill. I am thinking that the car has to be at a full stop for 5 seconds before ASS engages. That should cover all stop signs and very brief stops in traffic.
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      04-14-2012, 02:33 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
I agree with you but i think that stop sign recognition might be overkill. I am thinking that the car has to be at a full stop for 5 seconds before ASS engages. That should cover all stop signs and very brief stops in traffic.
The thing is, in Europe at least, that would mean that the system hardly ever triggers for long enough to save fuel. Since the engine needs to be off for 4 seconds to be worthwhile, you'd need a total of 9 seconds stop time for the system to achieve any sort of saving and in stop-start traffic we're rarely stationary for that long before having to move on a few feet.

I think stop sign recognition is a genius idea - the system is basically already there, so I imagine that it would only need some programming changes.

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      04-14-2012, 02:34 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
I agree with you but i think that stop sign recognition might be overkill. I am thinking that the car has to be at a full stop for 5 seconds before ASS engages. That should cover all stop signs and very brief stops in traffic.
That could possibly work as well, but then you might also create the problem for people who actually stop for 5 seconds and can drive again, I mean, there's no real end then =)
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