[tony20009]

I think you made the wrong choice. You should have bought something that kept you in-budget. If buyer's remorse hits you at some point down the road, it'll more likely be because of that than anything else. (I hope nothing comes about that brings to fruition any feelings of remorse, but still...) I don't really care what kinds of cars folks buy, but the best car to buy is always the one that can be had within one's original budget. I haven't yet found a car provides enough of anything to justify overspending my budget on it. For my own personal example, when I was buying my second child's graduation present -- an F30 -- my budget was $40K. I certainly could have spent a bit more, but I had a figure in mind and I stuck to it.

I admit I find it a bit harder to live with my arbitrarily set budgets when buying for myself or when a seller offers me a deal that, even though it's more overall than I'd planned on spending, they make the deal well worth it. The latter's what happened when I bought my first child's car -- E91. The thing was fully loaded and listed for a bit over $55K. The dealer sold it to me, because of the unique circumstance of him having it in the first place, for about $50K. Being such a good deal and being a highly practical car, I got that instead of sticking to my $40K budget when buying her car; it was just too good a deal to pass by. I don't regret the choice I made, but had that opportunity not come along, I'd have stayed in budget.

The budgetary issue aside, I roughly agree with your basic theme of comparing cars based on their price bracket, save to say that when doing so the cars should be similar in class -- i.e, a utility type car such as a sedan or wagon isn't comparable to a space-strapped two coupe, but it might be comparable to a coupe that has adequate space for four adults or two adults and two child seats.

Lastly, if my budget were truly $35K and not $30K, I would have gone for the 320i with some options that push the list price up to $37.5K and haggled the selling price to $35K. I say that because the 320i, though not fast, is fast enough for anyone also considering a Honda Accord -- let's face it, nobody buys an Accord with dreams of winning drag races from stop light to stop light -- and it has tune-ability to make it comparable to the 328i in power if that's still desired some time down the road. It's also fast enough for anything happening on public roads.

That said, enjoy your new car. It's a fine car and I know you will love it. FWIW, my very first BMW was also a very sparsely optioned '93 318i sedan. It had vinyl seats and was equipped only with seat heating and a sunroof. I kept that car from 1993 until 2007 and loved it every single day. I don't think a BMW 3 series needs to be optioned to the gills to be enjoyable. Then again, I don't see the 3er as a luxury car; I see it as a utility car that drives well and is a nice place to be while driving to and from life's daily diversions and obligations.

All the best.

[newoldbeemer]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

No adapting, unless it had DHP. Almost no dealer inventory have DHP, so I highly doubt the loaner did.

I meant steering, not suspension.

[newoldbeemer]

Originally Posted by tony20009

I think you made the wrong choice. You should have bought something that kept you in-budget. If buyer's remorse hits you at some point down the road, it'll more likely be because of that than anything else. (I hope nothing comes about that brings to fruition any feelings of remorse, but still...) I don't really care what kinds of cars folks buy, but the best car to buy is always the one that can be had within one's original budget. I haven't yet found a car provides enough of anything to justify overspending my budget on it. For my own personal example, when I was buying my second child's graduation present -- an F30 -- my budget was $40K. I certainly could have spent a bit more, but I had a figure in mind and I stuck to it.

I admit I find it a bit harder to live with my arbitrarily set budgets when buying for myself or when a seller offers me a deal that, even though it's more overall than I'd planned on spending, they make the deal well worth it. The latter's what happened when I bought my first child's car -- E91. The thing was fully loaded and listed for a bit over $55K. The dealer sold it to me, because of the unique circumstance of him having it in the first place, for about $50K. Being such a good deal and being a highly practical car, I got that instead of sticking to my $40K budget when buying her car; it was just too good a deal to pass by. I don't regret the choice I made, but had that opportunity not come along, I'd have stayed in budget.

The budgetary issue aside, I roughly agree with your basic theme of comparing cars based on their price bracket, save to say that when doing so the cars should be similar in class -- i.e, a utility type car such as a sedan or wagon isn't comparable to a space-strapped two coupe, but it might be comparable to a coupe that has adequate space for four adults or two adults and two child seats.

Lastly, if my budget were truly $35K and not $30K, I would have gone for the 320i with some options that push the list price up to $37.5K and haggled the selling price to $35K. I say that because the 320i, though not fast, is fast enough for anyone also considering a Honda Accord -- let's face it, nobody buys an Accord with dreams of winning drag races from stop light to stop light -- and it has tune-ability to make it comparable to the 328i in power if that's still desired some time down the road. It's also fast enough for anything happening on public roads.

That said, enjoy your new car. It's a fine car and I know you will love it. FWIW, my very first BMW was also a very sparsely optioned '93 318i sedan. It had vinyl seats and was equipped only with seat heating and a sunroof. I kept that car from 1993 until 2007 and loved it every single day. I don't think a BMW 3 series needs to be optioned to the gills to be enjoyable. Then again, I don't see the 3er as a luxury car; I see it as a utility car that drives well and is a nice place to be while driving to and from life's daily diversions and obligations.

All the best.

Thanks tony, I agree with you and I may have overspent just a bit. However my situation is a little bit more complex. I had a car to sell, wouldn't sell that particular car to a private party without qualms (I'm stupid in my own ways and that car is another long story), took it back to the same dealer who sold it to me. The tradein price he quoted almost makes up for that difference. Moreover, he agreed to work with the extended warranty I'd purchased through him and get most of it back, along with gap insurance I'd got. That adds up to around 3k, and the difference in tradein adds up to another 4k.

The second biggest reason was resale value. If kbb and edmunds numbers are anything to go by, I'd actually lose more getting anaccord v6 touring than a base 328i, if I sell after 3 or 4 years. I think it has to do with used cars being valued more along base prices and addons depreciating more than the car itself. Correct me if I am wrong.

To be honest, I do sometimes feel maybe I've made a wrong choice, and that tradein (besides the fact that the family fell in love with the car instantly) influenced the decision. Mainly about suspensions. But then again if I remind myself of the alternatives- Accord or GTI- I feel good. But certainly, whatever doubt I feel about my own choice is not about budget- to me that's the saving grace if I consider resale value

In any case, I just slid the cars back out again in a turn and this is getting addictive. Need to remind myself not to do that too much!

I don't think I'd have been even this happy with a 320i. I felt that even when I did the test drive. I agonized a lot between these two before signing. Maybe I should've shopped an A4 a bit more than I did.

[usher93]

Thats the problem with the whole BMW model. They leave most buyers with a heck of a lot of remorse because we have to skip out on features that should be standard.

I just went from a poorly equipped e90 328i to a much better equipped sport f30 328xi. To tell you the truth, I would never have changed cars if I would have spent a little more on my e90 and spec'd it a little better. In the end, it has defiantely cost me more in the long run.

At the end of the day, you need to do whats right for you but buyers remorse plays tricks on the human brain.

[newoldbeemer]

^ totally agree. On the other hand, I like that bmw has something to offer people in this budget. Ironically infinity doesn't have any offering at this price point , mercedes is a 1.8L engine and Audi is FWD.

In fact what other RWD options exist? Only ones I can think of are American cars and Lexus.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by usher93

Thats the problem with the whole BMW model. They leave most buyers with a heck of a lot of remorse because we have to skip out on features that should be standard.

I just went from a poorly equipped e90 328i to a much better equipped sport f30 328xi. To tell you the truth, I would never have changed cars if I would have spent a little more on my e90 and spec'd it a little better. In the end, it has defiantely cost me more in the long run.

At the end of the day, you need to do whats right for you but buyers remorse plays tricks on the human brain.

When I read folks stories/gripes along the lines of your first two paragraphs, I cannot help but think that a BMW was the wrong car for them to buy. It's my belief that if the handling isn't reason #1 or reason #2 for buying a 3er, one should buy something else. If the handling is reason #3 or lower, more than a few cars -- similarly nice cars -- handle well enough to meet or exceed one's expectations, while at the same time providing more gizmos, niceties, and conveniences than does BMW.

Inasmuch as the price of a 3er continues to be higher than that of similar cars, I don't see that changing anytime soon. Even though BMW are softening the initial feel of the 3er -- presumably to appeal to buyers who equate softness with comfort, and maybe also luxury (?) -- the cars are no less capable in the twisties than the 3ers that came before. Imbuing the cars with the handling and the cushy feel the typical driver like must (IMO) cost more than just making a car feel cushy and cuddly. So, that's why I say that if you don't care all that much about handling, don't buy a BMW. At the very least, you can save a couple thousand by buying an Audi or MB instead, and those cars will be no less comfortable a place to sit while you tool around from place to place.

It is for the reasons above that, if and when I decide to buy a luxury car, it'll be a big MB or a Bentley or Rolls or Panamera or something... It most likely won't be BMW 7 series. There's absolutely nothing I will do in a sport-driving manner in a 4, 500+ lb car. I may sail down a stretch of interstate at 90 mph in complete oblivion of the outside world, but I'm not going to be zipping around curves like I'm driving a go cart.

The preceding paragraph is based on my assumption that the 7er is pricier than those other cars. Indeed, if it were as luxurious as I want such a car to be, and less expensive than the alternatives that were also on my short list, I would buy the 7er. I've not actually compared them for I'm not in the market for a luxury car. Regardless of the type of car, the thing I will not do is pay for something I don't want, don't need and don't care about.

[newoldbeemer]

Originally Posted by tony20009

When I read folks stories/gripes along the lines of your first two paragraphs, I cannot help but think that a BMW was the wrong car for them to buy. It's my belief that if the handling isn't reason #1 or reason #2 for buying a 3er, one should buy something else. If the handling is reason #3 or lower, more than a few cars -- similarly nice cars -- handle well enough to meet or exceed one's expectations, while at the same time providing more gizmos, niceties, and conveniences than does BMW.

I don't think he said handling isn't important, unless I understood wrong. I guess there are two aspects of handling- the sheer capability, and the feel. I think the base 328i still provides the former better than other 35k sedans (what else is there?) but lacks the latter.

[CLittle]

I notice the steering does get tighter in comfort mode if I drive aggressively. I got a big bagel aka goose egg aka zippo zero zilch for graduating, would've been better to get a bmw...

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by newoldbeemer

I don't think he said handling isn't important, unless I understood wrong. I guess there are two aspects of handling- the sheer capability, and the feel. I think the base 328i still provides the former better than other 35k sedans (what else is there?) but lacks the latter.

The person to whom I responded didn't say handling isn't important, but he also didn't mention it all, which suggests it isn't all that important. Moreover, s/he did lament the absence of other things. I realize I made inferences based on what I read, but but I don't think they are unreasonable ones to make. After all, why think something is important, yet not mention at all of it? Or conversely, why mention only the thing that has no more than minor value?

To my way of thinking, doing that is akin to saying that the problem with Obama's presidency/administration is that the Assistant Deputy Secretary of Commerce makes decisions that are harmful to America's continued competitiveness in international markets. It's clear one doesn't like Obama's presidency, but what's important to one -- as evidenced by what one decried -- has little to do with what is central to Obama, policies he's got a direct hand in, and his approach to governing.

I agree with your point regarding the difference between the 328i and other $35K sedans, except the 320i. (I would also include the 1 series in that as well. Can I? I don't know. The 6GC is a coupe because it's sleek and swoopy; surely the 1ers can be sedans since they aren't sleek and swoopy? ) When I drove one, I found that the 320i handles the same as the 328i, to the extent they both had no sport suspension, but the 328i was clearly faster of the line. At least they handled the same with me at the wheel.

All the best.

[newoldbeemer]

I wouldn't infer from his post that handling isn't important just because he didnt mention it. He wasn't going into detail about features that are important, instead the point he was making is that if he had speced up his e90 in the first place with more features, he may not have bought an F30- meaning, it turned out more expensive in the longer run because he had bought an e90 with fewer features.

For an analogy: I don't mention my toothbrush very often, but please don't assume I can do without it because I didn't mention it when I was comparing Gillette and Fusion razors .

Oh and by sedan I really did mean four door . If only I could budge on that... The 128i would've been perfect!

The 320i at 35k would have the sports package (the one I test drove did) and that may have been a better choice if I had to make the choice again. But I could go either way on that... I love the powerful punch the 328i gives!

[usher93]

Agree with above....The first paragraph is exactly my feeling and what I was trying to portrat in the post.

My suggestion is that, budget is extremely important but don't skimp on the things you want most out of the car. If you can live without the alarm, then don't buy the premium package. If you can live with leatherette, then don't buy leather. Its all up to you in the end.

I don't think you need to slam someone for saying that they have remorse either. Its a common feeling after you buy a big ticket item.

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by newoldbeemer

I meant steering, not suspension.

DHP affects steering as well.

Also, suspension has an indirect on steering ...

[newoldbeemer]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

DHP affects steering as well.

Aha! I didn't know that! Thanks

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by tony20009

buyer's remorse

Certainly a risk of that from turning in an E90 335 (N54 + hydraulic steering) for a F30 328i (N20 + electric steering)

Hope it doesn't happen to OP though because buyer's remorse is such a useless use of energy

[newoldbeemer]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Certainly a risk of that from turning in an E90 335 (N54 + hydraulic steering) for a F30 328i (N20 + electric steering)

Hope it doesn't happen to OP though because buyer's remorse is such a useless use of energy

Well I dont mind the steering (except the size of the wheel) but certainly started thinking about suspensions already .

I opened another thread about suspensions, to help other potetntial buyers and also to talk about upgrades etc.

[JSB07044]

I agree with the original post, and nice to learn others are finding the same experience. I am in the market for a $40K car when my current lease expires in the fall, and recently test drove a 328ix standard trim. What a disappointment! While the engine was peppy and the transmission was smooth and responsive, I found the ride and steering too soft (like Lexus or Jaguar soft) even in the Sport mode. It did not feel like a BMW. I had expected it to be much firmer befitting of a performance sedan. I have driven E46 convertible, E90 sedan, and E93 M3 convertible, and previously owned a '03 Mercedes C240 for 8 years.

Seems to me that BMW is currently focusing on efficiency and technology, and particularly with the F30 the BMW brand experience may have been diluted by the various cost cutting measures (no LED rear lights on a $45K car?!) and sales/marketing goals. There is no reason to force customers to spend $10K-$20K in options to restore the expected levels of BMW performance experience. And from my observations, seems like most F30 sedans I see on the road are the standard trim with no Lighting Package (another branding tragedy: the distinctive headlight halo rings should be as standard as the BMW badge), so customers are buying the prestige of the BMW badge first.

My attention is now directed at Volvo's S60 T6 AWD sedan which I will be test driving next. I am not considering Mercedes C-Class and Audi A4 due to their 2015MY redesigns which will be arriving within the next 14 months or so.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by JSB07044

I agree with the original post, and nice to learn others are finding the same experience. I am in the market for a $40K car when my current lease expires in the fall, and recently test drove a 328ix standard trim. What a disappointment! While the engine was peppy and the transmission was smooth and responsive, I found the ride and steering too soft (like Lexus or Jaguar soft) even in the Sport mode. It did not feel like a BMW. I had expected it to be much firmer befitting of a performance sedan. I have driven E46 convertible, E90 sedan, and E93 M3 convertible, and previously owned a '03 Mercedes C240 for 8 years.

Seems to me that BMW is currently focusing on efficiency and technology, and particularly with the F30 the BMW brand experience may have been diluted by the various cost cutting measures (no LED rear lights on a $45K car?!) and sales/marketing goals. There is no reason to force customers to spend $10K-$20K in options to restore the expected levels of BMW performance experience. And from my observations, seems like most F30 sedans I see on the road are the standard trim with no Lighting Package (another branding tragedy: the distinctive headlight halo rings should be as standard as the BMW badge), so customers are buying the prestige of the BMW badge first.

My attention is now directed at Volvo's S60 T6 AWD sedan which I will be test driving next. I am not considering Mercedes C-Class and Audi A4 due to their 2015MY redesigns which will be arriving within the next 14 months or so.

Here is the problem,

Your point of reference:

"I have driven E46 convertible, E90 sedan, and E93 M3 convertible"

How many of those cars were Xdrive/AWD?

The F30 you drove has the softest, tallest, floatiest suspension, the smallest, least grippy tires. It gives you the worst impression a BMW can give you, worse than previous base BMWs. I had driven BASE E90's in the past, but their base tuning was firmer than the base that has become the F30.

The Volvo has great bang for the buck. But it is also very nose heavy and prone to understeer, it is a FWD based architecture. That loaded T6 should not be compared to the 328, drive a 335x MSport with DHP-THEN compare it to the Volvo.

[newoldbeemer]

Originally Posted by JSB07044

I agree with the original post, and nice to learn others are finding the same experience. I am in the market for a $40K car when my current lease expires in the fall, and recently test drove a 328ix standard trim. What a disappointment! While the engine was peppy and the transmission was smooth and responsive, I found the ride and steering too soft (like Lexus or Jaguar soft) even in the Sport mode. It did not feel like a BMW. I had expected it to be much firmer befitting of a performance sedan. I have driven E46 convertible, E90 sedan, and E93 M3 convertible, and previously owned a '03 Mercedes C240 for 8 years.

Seems to me that BMW is currently focusing on efficiency and technology, and particularly with the F30 the BMW brand experience may have been diluted by the various cost cutting measures (no LED rear lights on a $45K car?!) and sales/marketing goals. There is no reason to force customers to spend $10K-$20K in options to restore the expected levels of BMW performance experience. And from my observations, seems like most F30 sedans I see on the road are the standard trim with no Lighting Package (another branding tragedy: the distinctive headlight halo rings should be as standard as the BMW badge), so customers are buying the prestige of the BMW badge first.

My attention is now directed at Volvo's S60 T6 AWD sedan which I will be test driving next. I am not considering Mercedes C-Class and Audi A4 due to their 2015MY redesigns which will be arriving within the next 14 months or so.

Hi,

If you had said your budget is strictly 35k I'd have said the base 3 is one of the best options, but you mentioned 40k and its definitively not the best choice at that point. 5k makes that much difference. Do yourself a great favor and go for one with the DHP or Msport, even if the car has nothing else in it. And DON'T GO FOR XDRIVE! You can now find me posting in suspension topics about how to spend a bit more and make it better. If I'd spent that "bit more" upfront, I'd be in a much better place now. While I still contend this is still a good car compared to non-bimmers, I wouldn't make the same mistake again. Don't end up in the same boat (pun intended) as me .

Also do yourself another huge favor and consider the G37 or Q50. In my case that wasn't an option because I had a tricky tradein and a great offer from the bmw dealer but if you have no such parameters, you really should shop around!

At 40k I suggest DON'T get the base 328i - there are options like
- 328i with Msport
- G37
- Q50
- A4 with Quattro
- C300? (Not sure it would fit the 40k budget tho)
- Charger RT
- Taurus SHO
- Subaru Legacy 3.6R (these ate highly underrated IMHO- a blast to drive)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JSB07044

...Seems to me that BMW is currently focusing on efficiency and technology, and particularly with the F30 the BMW brand experience may have been diluted by the various cost cutting measures (no LED rear lights on a $45K car?!) and sales/marketing goals. There is no reason to force customers to spend $10K-$20K in options to restore the expected levels of BMW performance experience. And from my observations, seems like most F30 sedans I see on the road are the standard trim with no Lighting Package (another branding tragedy: the distinctive headlight halo rings should be as standard as the BMW badge), so customers are buying the prestige of the BMW badge first....

Has the situation ever been any different with BMW?

We've always had the option to buy in at the base level and add options. Often needed to buy many options to get a decent car. Even the whole "Sport" packaging has only been around as an option for a relatively short amount of years, we always had the 'bread and butter' cars.

I don't understand why users feel BMW have changed, of course cars are now more refined, customers expect it, yes, not all BMW drivers want an overly sporty model. (We have a "delete sport suspension" option here in the UK on M-sport models, some users want the sporty looking car but a softer ride). For those who so desire, you can opt for more sport features, in production form. Plus the next level up, BMW Performance options, ahead of the full fat M-cars. Something for everyone, I'd say, and a wide price point.

Just spec' up the car you want, to the level you want, but don't expect BMW to do it as a standard package. Never have in the 30+years I've been driving BMW. Always cost more than most marques to get a decent specification. If BMW added all the features forum posters feel should be standard, we'd be adding a considerable cost to our cars, we wouldn't be getting every feature for free.

Or do we want BMW to do this and price the cars out of the reach of many folks... keep them a bit more exclusive? That view is old hat and BMW are in business (and flourishing) because they have a formula that works.

HighlandPete

[newoldbeemer]

^ I agree. However what I think BMW *could* do is be a little more clear about the various options.

Without this forum, it would be impossible to understand sport package, sport line, m-sport, m-adaptive, m-performance, DHP.. More complicated by the fact that xdrive models have sportline but not sport suspension, caveats like that. I agree anyone should do their research before spending so much money, but that cannot an excuse from bmws side for being vague and unclear in dealerships, brochures etc ("go read the forums to understand my product"). It becomes very easy for someone to make a mistake in their purchase.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't see this problem with other manufacturers. When they say "sport", it is sport and that's it. BMW could change this with better communication at the dealership, and maybe a table explaining suspension options for various models, on the 3 series "specs" page.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by newoldbeemer

...Unless I'm mistaken, I don't see this problem with other manufacturers. When they say "sport", it is sport and that's it. BMW could change this with better communication at the dealership, and maybe a table explaining suspension options for various models, on the 3 series "specs" page.

Try VW.... we have exactly the same issues over here for specifying something as simple as the commercial van range. Too many options and buy in to the wrong line and bits are missed off which you have on other lines, plus you'd think are standard as you've moved up a price point.

We are into a era with so many options it is hard for anyone to keep up, even the dealers get caught out when models arrive and can't understand why important features are different or missing from the build.

To be fair most brochures and price lists do give the detail, but takes some serious digesting these days if you don't want to get caught with the wrong specification.

HighlandPete

[yemenmocha]

I see where you're coming from in general. I had a different experience with the Accord though (though not necessarily on the cornering at fast speeds) I thought it had a lot of power for an Accord. That 280hp can be felt and the Accords are heavily discounted, easily found for under invoice... so it's actually an upper $20's comparison. For people on very tight budgets, $27-28k is very different than $35k especially when you factor in cost of ownership longterm between those two cars.