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      07-13-2016, 02:01 PM   #1
LeVous
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Some thoughts on audio

I installed the bimmertech amp and the improvement is excellent. Leaving me wanting more, of course.

I'm planning a single 8" sub install in the under floor cargo cavity in my F31 (wagon) powered by a nvx 200watt mini amp. I'll be building a custom sealed enclosure and expect to have everything nicely concealed in that space.

Following that, I'd like better clarity on the top end. All the PNP component sets are rather pricey at >$500. I found a brave somebody's post using inexpensive speakers from Parts Express

On one hand, I'd like to save some scratch and get a great result.

On the other hand, the bavsound, focal, rainbow and jenart have a consistent result.

I'm considering ordering one $40 driver to see what that sounds like. It's a manageable risk.

At the end of the day, I want superb, audiophile sound. It would be foolish to go through a bunch of hassle to save a couple hundred dollars when the whole system is going to be north of $1200 regardless. Listen to me talk myself into the expensive speakers

I simply don't want to blow my paycheck and then be still underwhelmed.

Any really strong opinions?


Rock, pop, edm. I hate harsh tweeters and muddy speakers
Thanks
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      07-13-2016, 03:38 PM   #2
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Musicar NW

They are experts in BMW audio. Read my post on the system I put in my 4.
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      07-14-2016, 06:18 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulff3 View Post
Musicar NW

They are experts in BMW audio. Read my post on the system I put in my 4.
I second this suggestion. They won't steer you wrong.
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      07-14-2016, 08:13 AM   #4
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I only have one suggestion for you: go to a professional installer/shop that knows what works and what doesn't work in BMW and listen to some proper aftermarket products/setups - it will for sure provide an eye (or ear) opener for you!
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      07-14-2016, 09:00 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlr
I only have one suggestion for you: go to a professional installer/shop that knows what works and what doesn't work in BMW and listen to some proper aftermarket products/setups - it will for sure provide an eye (or ear) opener for you!
I get what you are saying but musicCarNW comes in at around $4k which is approximately the same as what I've been quoted for custom installs at reputable shops. Living near Atlanta, good installers are regularly serving Ferrari, Bentley, and Aston Martin owners so they really don't have time for budget concerns.

I've found that second tier installers do not meet my quality standards. They break stuff, wires are not tied nearly and hidden and interior mods are done with a dull bread knife.
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      07-14-2016, 10:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeVous View Post
I get what you are saying but musicCarNW comes in at around $4k which is approximately the same as what I've been quoted for custom installs at reputable shops. Living near Atlanta, good installers are regularly serving Ferrari, Bentley, and Aston Martin owners so they really don't have time for budget concerns.

I've found that second tier installers do not meet my quality standards. They break stuff, wires are not tied nearly and hidden and interior mods are done with a dull bread knife.
The fun part of this issue is that the reputable shops don't actually charge much more than the crappy ones for their labor rates. The difference between the above-mentioned shop in Portland and the 2nd (and 3rd) tier is very low. Lower end shops certainly aren't likely have the tuning expertise to set the sound field correctly. Car audio is much more than just dropping in equipment.

The real cost comes from the equipment, and in that you are pretty much stuck. There are a huge range of speakers available if you are looking at 6x9's (ick) or really any primary drivers above 4". BMW's have the same equipment constraints as the more expensive cars and they are no less difficult to work on.

You will not save much money going to a lower-end shop and you will cause yourself a ton of headaches. I tried to find a cheaper way to deal with this situation and the only thing that's worth doing below the level that the good shops do is to just drop in a Bimmertech (or an unmodified PP82DSP with a harness) and give it a good tune (which, again, not everyone can do). It's better than you'd think (though not "audiophile" and it can't be with any stock or cheap speakers) and you won't get "audiophile" results in these cars unless you find a way to spend the money it takes. I bought a bunch of my equipment used, and that helped, but at the end of the day, I spent the money. There isn't another "$1000" audiophile solution. Or any audiophile solution for that price. Even just adding a sub is a grand once you deal with buying a decent custom enclosure, sub and amp. You can avoid a custom enclosure and lose trunk space to save money (or build one yourself if you are that handy and can do it right) but the cost of the amp and the sub itself are fixed costs.

Keep this in mind as you look at this more fully: Male human voices are mostly between 160 and 260 or so hertz. If you listen to music with male singers, that's the hardest range for 4" speakers and 8" underseat woofers to cover, and just because a speaker can put out sound in that range, it doesn't mean the speaker can do so with accuracy and quality. It cannot be done correctly with cheap speakers.
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      07-14-2016, 01:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeVous View Post
I get what you are saying but musicCarNW comes in at around $4k which is approximately the same as what I've been quoted for custom installs at reputable shops. Living near Atlanta, good installers are regularly serving Ferrari, Bentley, and Aston Martin owners so they really don't have time for budget concerns.

I've found that second tier installers do not meet my quality standards. They break stuff, wires are not tied nearly and hidden and interior mods are done with a dull bread knife.
This is the age old issue for most of us I guess. It hurts to spend this kind of money, especially in one big bang. What I did some years ago when I kind of "got back into" car audio (I had like a 15 year hiatus where I was driving only company cars...) was striking up a relationship with a reputable shop. We talked a lot about my past experiences (former car audio competitor) and my preferences with regards to audio long before we started talking about money.

Because I was on a budget at the time we agreed on a "phased" approach in which the different products were introduced at different times to continuously improve the overall experience, e.g. in the beginning i was running semi-active fronts and single amp, later on fully active 3-way up front and multiple amps and in the end with full processing as well. Some of the install work was carried out by the shop and some by me and in the end it worked out just fine. When time came to swap cars - I already had all the equipment and this time was able to do the install myself.

I appreciate not all shops have an interest in developing these kind of relationships, but sometimes it may be best to blatantly honest and say "if you help me out now I will throw money at you for a long time, just not all at once".

In my opinion - if you have a genuine interest it is worth the investment over time and I really believe in trying to get a realtionship with a shop going that "understands" you and your requirements - and remember: Bad Sound Kills Good Music
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      07-15-2016, 09:27 PM   #8
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If you have enough fabrication skills to build a custom sub box, there is no need to go to any audio shop unless you want them to do the work due to time constraints or other demands. As far as saving some money, you will save the most money by skipping the middle and going straight to the upper end. I've heard some OK systems with PE drivers, but they're just not in the same league. The realism and tone are not there IMO. If you're on a bit of a budget, for the best bang/buck I'd highly recommend the Jehnert flatline set for the tweet, mid, and Underseat.
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      07-16-2016, 01:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketBoots View Post
If you're on a bit of a budget, for the best bang/buck I'd highly recommend the Jehnert flatline set for the tweet, mid, and Underseat.
Do you have them installed in yours ? I just placed order for Bimmertech amp and I am looking to upgrade my speakers as well. I'm new to the forum and not sure if any (bay area) members would care to give an audition of their setup.
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      07-16-2016, 06:42 AM   #10
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BMW has a very shallow mount which limits your choices. I went with the Focal component set and a 10" JL sub in the rear. CarTunes of Atlanta (moved to Roswell) has always done audio work on my cars. Good shop and recommended.

I'd be happy to let you hear mine if you are interested.
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      07-18-2016, 10:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haan Solo View Post
Do you have them installed in yours ? I just placed order for Bimmertech amp and I am looking to upgrade my speakers as well. I'm new to the forum and not sure if any (bay area) members would care to give an audition of their setup.
I only have part of it: the underseat woofers. The rest of my front stage is a bit more upgraded. I can point you in the direction of someone very familiar with the Jehnerts if you're interested.
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      07-18-2016, 02:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by RocketBoots View Post
I only have part of it: the underseat woofers. The rest of my front stage is a bit more upgraded. I can point you in the direction of someone very familiar with the Jehnerts if you're interested.
I would love to listen to them. Let's see if we could work out a meet or something.

Couple questions ...
1. Are plug & play options (cables) available for Jehnerts ?
2. 55W RMS put out by the Bimmertech amp, is it sufficient to drive Jehnert 8' woofers ?
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      07-18-2016, 02:26 PM   #13
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I'm sending 120 to them.....each

Last edited by 435MSport6Speed; 07-18-2016 at 08:20 PM.. Reason: More
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      07-19-2016, 06:18 AM   #14
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The 55W from the Bimmertech would be an issue for the Jehnert XE200 8" Woofers. They're 6-ohm impedance. Mine are each getting a channel from my JL 800/8 and they're fine at that power level but I wouldn't throw less than that at them.

Also remember that the Jehnerts are not subwoofers...they are woofers. They aren't what you want for frequencies below 50Hz.

Last edited by bri1042; 07-19-2016 at 06:21 AM.. Reason: added a thing
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      07-19-2016, 08:20 AM   #15
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I have the Jehnert 3-way systen in my F34 which came with stock Stereo.

I powered it semi-actively by an ESX amp with 4x85W. As I want to upgrade to a DSP amp I removed the ESX amp and run the Jehnerts now only by the HU. Even this way with the 2x25W (?) it doesn't sound bad up to mid voice levels. I was really surprised.

Thus I think the 55W/channel of the Bimmertech amp will be easily sufficient for the Jehnerts. Someone here in the forum reported already about Bimmertech and Jehnerts very positive... Try to search.
*Edit* Check this out: http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...hlight=jehnert

Which I can confirm is that the Jehnert woofers doesn't go very deep even with amp. Officially 40-50Hz or so. But still nice system.

Last edited by TePee; 07-19-2016 at 09:26 AM..
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      07-19-2016, 12:35 PM   #16
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I guess everyone has their own view on what good sound means. I would recommend trying before buying, risk is you get disappointed. Few things are as subjective as the perception of audio - what sounds fantastic to some may sound "meh" at best to others. Try contacting a shop where you can try stuff out before making a substantial investment rather than relying on opinions of others - you are the one who has to live with it.

Anyone interested in the realisation of a competition grade SQ audio system in an F36 can always check out my build thread (linked in my sig) - will detail the build in there as I go along - cheers
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      07-22-2016, 09:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
The 55W from the Bimmertech would be an issue for the Jehnert XE200 8" Woofers. They're 6-ohm impedance. Mine are each getting a channel from my JL 800/8 and they're fine at that power level but I wouldn't throw less than that at them.

Also remember that the Jehnerts are not subwoofers...they are woofers. They aren't what you want for frequencies below 50Hz.
The PP82 is more than adequate to run the Jehnert drivers, more specifically when actively done. They are also play just fine below 50hz, not sub level lower, but lower.

Unless someone is a cranker the the PP82 mates very nicely. If they're gonna really crank it a bit then a V Eight, P SIX, etc are more viable choices at a higher high pass point.
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      07-22-2016, 01:04 PM   #18
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The XE200's resonance frequency is 42 Hz vs 25.24 on a JL W1. They aren't subs, and I don't imagine they'd make very nice noises lower than 50 but I'm sure they'd make noise of some sort.
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      07-22-2016, 01:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
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The XE200's resonance frequency is 42 Hz vs 25.24 on a JL W1. They aren't subs, and I don't imagine they'd make very nice noises lower than 50 but I'm sure they'd make noise of some sort.
I never implied that they were subs or should be used as such. Just stating the facts from application time and time again. I promise you, I do have a little bit of experience with these drivers.
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      07-22-2016, 04:03 PM   #20
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Mostly I just don't want to get people's hopes up. I don't think anyone makes a shallow 8" woofer or sub-woofer that can really do everything. I love my Jehnerts. I wouldn't trade them...but I'm happiest with them combined with the trunk sub.
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      07-22-2016, 04:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
Mostly I just don't want to get people's hopes up. I don't think anyone makes a shallow 8" woofer or sub-woofer that can really do everything. I love my Jehnerts. I wouldn't trade them...but I'm happiest with them combined with the trunk sub.
Absolutely agree. There is no replacement for a trunk sub.
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      07-27-2016, 06:06 PM   #22
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I appreciate everyone weighing in on this. I went to three audio installers yesterday. I very much enjoyed seeing a Ferrari, mcLaren, muscle cars, etc. they clearly know what they doing and people trust them with amazing cars. Quotes ranged from $3700 - $4500. One shop only offered Rockford Fosgate. Another said the Rockford are harsh, which is what I remember from my high school days, and turned me onto hertz. The last shop, CarTunes (mcLaren sighting) recommended Focal comps (not the factory fit) but really wanted the sub in the corner rather than the well. Everyone was shooting straight and their proposals were reasonable and their work very high quality. I just couldn't justify an additional $3500 on top of a $900 amp. So I've ordered myself a pair of 8 inch subs and I'll be building my own box from fiberglass and it's going in the well under the floor as I planned. I'm hoping I can then go to cartoon to get the Focal installed for a grand and be happy
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