[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So don't even try to extalt to me what the best E30 was. I owned an E30 for 18 years (1989 325i with the M20) and have driven several E30 M3s along with several E21s back in 1976 through 1983 so I'm quite familiar with BMW's 4-cylinder engines of the era in both the E21 and E30. While the E30 M3 handled quite well, it wasn't much faster than a 325i with the M20 of the day, so it just wasn't. I also currently own a 1997 Z3 1.9L. The BMW I6 is just a superior engine to any 4-cylinder. Had you been of driving age in the 1980's, everyone in the USA (and the magazines) was asking for the 3 Series to get the M20. BMWs 4 cylinders are not history for me, they are real life experiences. Sorry, I'll take the N/A I6 any day of the week.

Funny, I owned this 320i and a 323i and while both were fun, for I still preferred the 320i.


You own a four cylinder Z3, which having owned an M Coupe for 12 years, and having driven all of the Z3 motors, I think the four is actually the best suited to the convertible (not the coupe though). You argued that BMW doesn't have a heritage of four cylinders, or that Cadillac was more suited to them, and frankly, for the ROW, that just isn't true and for many Americans, things like 2002's, E21's and E30's have plenty of fond memories, and not all of them involve a straight six.

Again, I'm not trying to argue that a four is better than a six, my wife and I just went through this with her X1 and chose the six, with the "handicap" of the old 6s auto over the four and the newer 8s. I simply think it's some odd result of BMW USA's marketing that makes many Americans try to ignore BMW's strong history with great four cylinders.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Funny, I owned this 320i and a 323i and while both were fun, for I still preferred the 320i.


You own a four cylinder Z3, which having owned an M Coupe for 12 years, and having driven all of the Z3 motors, I think the four is actually the best suited to the convertible (not the coupe though). You argued that BMW doesn't have a heritage of four cylinders, or that Cadillac was more suited to them, and frankly, for the ROW, that just isn't true and for many Americans, things like 2002's, E21's and E30's have plenty of fond memories, and not all of them involve a straight six.

Again, I'm not trying to argue that a four is better than a six, my wife and I just went through this with her X1 and chose the six, with the "handicap" of the old 6s auto over the four and the newer 8s. I simply think it's some odd result of BMW USA's marketing that makes many Americans try to ignore BMW's strong history with great four cylinders.

I did not argue BMW doesn't have a 4-cylinder heritage; I've argued it has a 6-cylinder heritage in the USA. I've argued the ATS has no heritage to judge it against.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I did not argue BMW doesn't have a 4-cylinder heritage; I've argued it has a 6-cylinder heritage in the USA. I've argued the ATS has no heritage to judge it against.

They'd certainly like us all to forget the Catera.

[tuned2ride]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Slower performance, and worse efficiency than the 4 cylinder turbo. Makes sense.

There is a lot more to an engine than how it sounds.

You WILL change your mind once you'll have lived a while with that N55 and get a 328i loaner.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by tuned2ride

You WILL change your mind once you'll have lived a while with that N55 and get a 328i loaner.

huh? I own a 328. Owned 2 N54's. Owned an N52. Sure, the N20 doesn't sounds great, cant hear it all really, but i have no problem with that. It offers 90% of the performance the N55 does and i get 40mpg on the highway. As for the N52, that engine was dog awful under 4000 rpm, to get any enjoyment from the N52 you ahve to keep it high in the revs but then your getting less than 20mpg. There is 260lb of torque from 1500 rpm in the N20, and you feel it.

Looking forward to the N55, never owned one but i hope it's as good as my N54's were.

[Red Bread]

E90 N52 loaners were also saddled with that terrible GM transmission, not the ZF that E90, E82 and E84 N54/N55 cars have. At least now the F30 loaners have a significantly better transmission.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

E90 N52 loaners were also saddled with that terrible GM transmission, not the ZF that E90, E82 and E84 N54/N55 cars have. At least now the F30 loaners have a significantly better transmission.

Oh man that GM auto was awful awful awful. Iv'e driven an N52 with manual and it's better than the auto version but still lacking any low end power.

Also, the E84 N55 still has the ZF6 speed, which while considerably better than the GM6, not as good as the ZF8auto. The ZF8 Is incredible and certainly the new benchmark. I drove an S5 with the stronic(dsg) and it wasn't as good as the ZF8 sport auto.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Also, the E84 N55 still has the ZF6 speed, which while considerably better than the GM6, not as good as the ZF8auto. The ZF8 Is incredible and certainly the new benchmark. I drove an S5 with the stronic(dsg) and it wasn't as good as the ZF8 sport auto.

I know, I own an E84 35i. It doesn't get the mileage numbers the 8s does, but it is more fun from our test drives (F30 328i, F30 335i, both X1's and the X3 35i). I actually feel like the 8s is better suited to the N20. Note that the N55 E90 was heavier yet quicker than the N55 F30, but gets worse mileage.

[thebuddha]

@tuned2ride
You're really making too many blanket statements and assumptions in regards to what you think all BMW owners are looking for. I would quote all your statements, but the system here is easy enough to navigate older posts, and in almost all of them you state your affinity for the engine note. But where you go awry is assuming ALL BMW OWNERS place the same importance into the engine note as you do. While undoubtedly there is a portion that do have the same priorities as yourself probably an equal amount value handling sharpness (which FOR A FACT is better with the lighter N20 in the F30's), or fuel consumption (Fuelly has 24.8 for the N20 and 21.9 for the N55, a 13% difference) or maybe even cabin isolation for that matter. So stop trying to validate your choices as being 100% correct and trying to negate all other BMW buyers' decisions; much more constructive would be to state your reasoning for your purchase, your priorities, and thus affirming that for your specific circumstances and preferences your decision was the most prudent one.

@justinnum1
The n20 engine is a pretty large performance upgrade over the n52, but I really wish there was a way to pair it with the old hydraulic steering. Even the improved EPS on the F30 leaves me wanting, but as I expressed above, to each their own.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

huh? I own a 328. Owned 2 N54's. Owned an N52. Sure, the N20 doesn't sounds great, cant hear it all really, but i have no problem with that.

I got the car back with the prototype exhaust on today.

I am keeping a tight lip until it goes into actual production. Not only do you hear a nice exhaust note, but you can actually hear a fair bit more turbo spool. You even "feel" a bit more as the stock exhaust had 1lb weights built into it santitizing vibration to such a high level. Now the the exhaust you actually feel it a bit in your spine, a bit more of a tingle as you are driving with your foot on the gas. It brings it back towards the E90/E46 drivers car that people are moaning they lost with the re-design.

Really happy so far, sound was one of the major things lacking with the whole package.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by thebuddha

@tuned2ride
You're really making too many blanket statements and assumptions in regards to what you think all BMW owners are looking for. I would quote all your statements, but the system here is easy enough to navigate older posts, and in almost all of them you state your affinity for the engine note. But where you go awry is assuming ALL BMW OWNERS place the same importance into the engine note as you do. While undoubtedly there is a portion that do have the same priorities as yourself probably an equal amount value handling sharpness (which FOR A FACT is better with the lighter N20 in the F30's), or fuel consumption (Fuelly has 24.8 for the N20 and 21.9 for the N55, a 13% difference) or maybe even cabin isolation for that matter. So stop trying to validate your choices as being 100% correct and trying to negate all other BMW buyers' decisions; much more constructive would be to state your reasoning for your purchase, your priorities, and thus affirming that for your specific circumstances and preferences your decision was the most prudent one.

@justinnum1
The n20 engine is a pretty large performance upgrade over the n52, but I really wish there was a way to pair it with the old hydraulic steering. Even the improved EPS on the F30 leaves me wanting, but as I expressed above, to each their own.

Where in stamford are you? I was born in Norwalk but go to pound ridge and greenwich often for family.

[tuned2ride]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Sure, the N20 doesn't sounds great

Thank you.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by tuned2ride

Thank you.

Your welcome. No one claims it sound great. But what you lose in sound, you make up for it in so many other categories including, performance, and efficiency. Some people, myself included place a lot of stock in those 2 areas. those that dont want the N20 because the sound, good luck finding a 2.0t that sounds good.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Your welcome. No one claims it sound great. But what you lose in sound, you make up for it in so many other categories including, performance, and efficiency. Some people, myself included place a lot of stock in those 2 areas. those that dont want the N20 because the sound, good luck finding a 2.0t that sounds good.

My VW TSI was decent stock, but again too quiet.

Modern cars with turbos, most times you are not even given a stock boost gauge. You do not hear induction noises or bypass valves letting off.

So yeah, there is not much to any stock small displacement turbo.

My 2.0TSI with a Borla exhaust and 3" downpipe sounded downright mean. It was bordering on too much.

Right now I like the sound a LOT. Unsure if the downpipe added to the N20 will make it a bit too much.

[thebuddha]

@JUSTINNUM1
I work right next to the library, so spend 90% in Stamford. Grew up in the area so obviously know Norwalk & Pound Ridge well.

But seriously, how the h*ll are you already on your second F30? Must have a pretty great relationship (read: compromising photos) with your local dealer.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by thebuddha

@JUSTINNUM1
I work right next to the library, so spend 90% in Stamford. Grew up in the area so obviously know Norwalk & Pound Ridge well.

But seriously, how the h*ll are you already on your second F30? Must have a pretty great relationship (read: compromising photos) with your local dealer.

My car is a lemon, so the dealer is buying my car back(cutting me a check for the money i have spent on it minus miles i have put on) and they are ordering my the 335. As for my relationship with the dealer, its pretty good, have bought quite a few cars from them over the years.

I wish i could enjoy these cars on roads like high ridge road, other great roads in the pound ridge/greenwich/stamford area, but i am stuck with str8 roads in south florida. One of these days i will take a drive up there. Dont miss the winters tho

[thebuddha]

Man, sucks that you got a lemon, but at least the dealer experience sounded positive. The reason I asked was because in this area I've barely seen any F30's at all - wasn't sure if it was a lack of supply or everyone waiting for the AWD versions to come.

As for the weather, I got real lucky in that the winter after buying my RWD E92 it didn't snow once. Crossing my fingers for something like that again, though it does kill my chances for hitting the slopes.

And yes, plenty of great back roads in Fairfield/Westchester area. My fav has to be 53 - nice open stretches with lots of awesome twisting near the picturesque reservoir.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by thebuddha

Man, sucks that you got a lemon, but at least the dealer experience sounded positive. The reason I asked was because in this area I've barely seen any F30's at all - wasn't sure if it was a lack of supply or everyone waiting for the AWD versions to come.

As for the weather, I got real lucky in that the winter after buying my RWD E92 it didn't snow once. Crossing my fingers for something like that again, though it does kill my chances for hitting the slopes.

And yes, plenty of great back roads in Fairfield/Westchester area. My fav has to be 53 - nice open stretches with lots of awesome twisting near the picturesque reservoir.

Yea, up north you will start seeing more now that he xdrive is out.

[batislav]

Originally Posted by thebuddha

(Fuelly has 24.8 for the N20 and 21.9 for the N55, a 13% difference)

As seen in another thread, a lot of people on here get 25-28mpg combined from the 335i, which is to say, fuelly is worthless at this point in my opinion. I'm sure the 328 is also better than listed. I have less than 35% highway miles and I am consistently over 25mpg. Hard to evaluate an mpg difference without more data.

[Bunkei]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

To be honest I was not a fan of the front either. The side and rear, I don't see enough of a change to find better or worse than the E90.


But then comes the M-Sport. I am sorry, but if you have not seen one in the flesh, it is a drastic improvement and makes no apologies compared to an any E90.

All subjective of course.

But fact is, most have not seen an F30 M-Sport in person, also seen one in EB2.

True, I have not seen a F30 M-sport in person, so I'll keep an eye out. It's rather interesting because the sides and back looks like a 3/4 scale F10 5-series (which is fine by me), but the front end absolutely bears no resemblance to the 5 or 7 series. I'd be curious to see what the first few drafts of the F30's fascia were like. I bet it look a lot like the 5 series, but thought it was too derivative and went off the deep end. lol

The front end definitely had some inspiration from that BMW i8 Concept we saw a couple of years ago, but looks horridly out of place on the 3 series.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

They'd certainly like us all to forget the Catera.

Ah yes, the badge engineered Opel that begat the CTS, not the ATS.

[ChiefBroady]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Ah yes, the badge engineered Opel that begat the CTS, not the ATS.

The funny thing is that the Catera (in Germany called the Opel Omega) was the biggest and best Opel had to offer at that time. And people wonder, why no one bought them ^^.