[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by rcl

And also usually have more power and get better gas mileage than the bmw equivalent in the class.

This is a joke right? Please tell me you're joking...

[R N M]

Please drive your Corrolla at 80mph on the highway and then do the same in 320i.

If you see no difference then get a Corrolla.

The engine, trans, brakes, chassis is all cheap crap on a Corrolla. Toyota is the new GM - putting zero money in R&d and just riding their rep for sales.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

Options being standard would not be a discussion if BMW's retained its best in class handling and performance, but since it has been compromised, it becomes a question of value.

Ye but who does it better?

Cadillac has great chassis on ATS and CTS but rest of the car is not very good - interior, engine, trans, CUE.
Lexus has ok handling but engines are crap, tech is also way behind BMW.
MB is too soft unless you go AMG.
Audi is all AWD and heavy - never been a fan.

Not much out there thats better as an overall package than BMW.

You can go to Porsche but thats serious $$$$.

[rcl]

Guys obviously the BMW, really any BMW is better than a corolla. It rides better, brakes better, looks better, handles better, etc.

I was merely pointing out a FACT, that BMW's do not come with some tech options which are pretty commonplace now and can almost be considered basic features, like rear-view camera's. And to get opinions. I never said a corolla is better than a BMW. LOL

I just think a BMW should be better than cheap cars in EVERY ASPECT, including standard features is all.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

Options being standard would not be a discussion if BMW's retained its best in class handling and performance, but since it has been compromised, it becomes a question of value.

If options were standard, they wouldn't be options. I like that BMW allows me to configure my car to my tastes. I didn't need a HUD or cameras - didn't opt for Exec package or driver's assist. Glad that I had a choice.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by rcl

I've owned my 2011 328i coupe 6mt for about 20 months now. I bought it just because I was caught up in the hype of owning a German having and having a BMW and etc. But shortly after I felt underwhelmed by it regarding what you actually get for the price you pay.

Switching gears here slightly, my 2016 Corolla LE(not the top of the line model) comes standard with rear-view camera, LED headlights, and bluetooth phone integration. The car was $16,250.

Now my friends 2016 BMW 320i cost him $35k. He had to pay $700 for the Lighting package to get LED headlights and he had to pay $900 for the Driver Assistance Package to get rear-view camera. Finally he had to pay $350 for bluetooth phone integration. Almost an additional $2k in options just to get a NEW BMW optioned as well as a basic corolla. Is it just me or should basic tech like this be included WITHIN the base msrp of a car that is a 'luxury brand' and commands more than double the msrp of my Corolla. I just feel like when you spend more money, you should get more, not get less. I know you could say well you have to pay to play blah blah blah which it true, I don't mind paying for more but it's just kind of shitty to pay more money for a 'luxury car' when it doesn't even come standard with basic options.

Anyway, your thoughts?

I suggest taking the Corolla to a road course and completing 5 laps, at speed, then doing the same in the BMW. That's where you will find your money.

I am quite often unable to rent German cars when I travel for business and the first time I use the brakes on a Kia/Honda/Toyota/Nissan Genericmobile, I am always shocked at the LACK of performance.

I always try to rent BMWs or VWs. Passats have some of the best brakes in their class. I prefer cars that are dynamically safe and most of the standard Asian brands don't fit the bill for my driving habits.

As far as back up cams and all that crap, who cares. They are nice to haves, not must haves. I'd prefer a manufacturer who places $ in solid engineering, testing, and manufacturing.

Cheers-mk

[IndotagSwizz]

Originally Posted by rcl

Guys obviously the BMW, really any BMW is better than a corolla. It rides better, brakes better, looks better, handles better, etc.

I was merely pointing out a FACT, that BMW's do not come with some tech options which are pretty commonplace now and can almost be considered basic features, like rear-view camera's. And to get opinions. I never said a corolla is better than a BMW. LOL

I just think a BMW should be better than cheap cars in EVERY ASPECT, including standard features is all.

you are right, I was going to get a new Honda accord before I got my BMW, for the same price I got a base line with premium package 320 I could have gotten a fully loaded Accord, and by fully loaded I mean everything, front collision braking and warning, blind spot warning, nav, heated seats, heated mirrors, Michelin tires! everything. Instead I wanted to give the ultimate driving machine a shot, let me tell you about BMWs awesome engineering... My tranny went within 2500k miles, they wanted to replace it with a remanufactured one instead of a new one, finally they gave me a new car and I thought man BMW really stepped their game up...and then both of my taillights started falling off, my passenger side door also started falling off and had to be realigned, the run flat tires were awful and only lasted 25k miles WTF!!!! the steering wheel squeeks when I turn, thermostat had to be replaced, idrive screen shut off for no reason, comfort access works when it feels like it ... Does it brake better than the Accord?? yes, does its perform better when taking a ramp on the highway?? yes but only after switching to Michelins, and please don't come at me with the "well you got the cheapest one" because if that is the case don't put the BMW badge on it. I will tell you that when the car is at its best its a joy to drive and even I wont ever deny that but unfortunately something is always breaking or squeeking and this takes away from those positives.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by rcl

I just think a BMW should be better than cheap cars in EVERY ASPECT, including standard features is all.

You could certainly do that, but you lose the customization aspect of it.

[rcl]

At one point things like power windows and AC were options(and still might be on some cheap cars) but when technology gets to a certain point and cars become more advanced they become standard. Atleast on more expensive cars. I mean how would you feel if you had to pay for a package just to get power windows and AC!? Obviously things like HUD's and adaptive headlights should be available options, but rear view camera and such I feel have reached the level of expected standard technology. I still think there would be plenty of ways to offer and design packages to appeal to consumers but adding a couple more basic features. I might be alone in thinking this.

Maybe I am a cheap bastard and shouldn't drive/own a bmw? Overall I don't regret buying my bmw and have had a good experience with it. I guess I just expected more is all.

[David70]

When people say they want all of the options "Standard" they really don't mean it the way they say it. What they really want is all of the options included for free. BMW could easily just include everything and have the base price go up accordingly, then people would complain about having to pay for all of the items the really didn't want.

If you don't find that the car with the options you want is a good value you should buy something else. Just having everything standard with a much higher price won't change anything.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by David70

When people say they want all of the options "Standard" they really don't mean it the way they say it. What they really want is all of the options included for free. BMW could easily just include everything and have the base price go up accordingly, then people would complain about having to pay for all of the items the really didn't want.

If you don't find that the car with the options you want is a good value you should buy something else. Just having everything standard with a much higher price won't change anything.

That is exactly as I see it. We'd all like more for free, but with the likes of BMW that just won't happen.

I remember a while back filling in a BMW survey where they were trying to get customer feel and feedback for whether we'd pay more for a higher specified 'standard' vehicle, prefer packages, or continue with options to build our own preferred model.

Must admit I do support the "build your own car" approach, where we can add preferred options and control the costs to suit our pocket.

HighlandPete

[MalibuBimmer]

What's most interesting to me is the migration of expensive optional systems to the cheaper cars. And having those options eventually become regular features.

[RABAUKE]

My Rolex SeaDweller doesn't have a stop watch or alarm clock, but a G-Shock does.....life is about choices.

[spiceyxi]

Don't worry BMW will offer rear view cameras as a standard option soon enough.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...meras/7114531/

[SROC3]

for the OP.....then you could easily, reverse the current reality, flip this argument around and say "well, why doesn't BMW allow us to choose options that we want and DO NOT want?"

There are essentially two choices right? - a car sold with 90% of options included OR a car sold giving us most choice. There actually are some parts where BMW has "included" something as part of the M4 - "HK Sound" (it's standard now). The rest, I'm happy we have choice over.

Per your argument - I think LED shouldn't HAVE TO BE included - how about people who don't drive at night very often and see no value in this option? OH WAIT.....they can choose not to order it (see what happened there?)

It's a fantastic balance of "giving people what they want" and "maximizing profit margins". if I ran a successful car company - I would be doing the exact same thing. You can call it "Nickel & Diming" or whatever you want....I see it as "good business".

[mfourn20]

BMWs definitely lack the standard features you get in most mass market cars. How can heated seats not be standard on a car that is $30k+??????

Where they shine and where you can tell the money really goes is the chassis, and drivetrain...they're way above the mass market cars there.

[Donger Kim]

Whats worst than having to pay more for an option that you want/believe should be standard is to have an option you have zero need for (clearly coming out of your pocket).

I really did not want nor need a bunch of things in my BMW such as the NAV. My phone works perfectly fine and i generally dont drive to places I am not familiar with that often. Or the rear heated seats? did not want that. Comfort access? whats wrong with a remote, did not want that, the list goes on. Not to say I wanted a stripper, I still got 10k+ worth of options that I actually wanted, and truly appreciate that they gave me the option to do so.

There were other options that I really wanted but didnt want the "whole package" thus passed on. Having the HUD wouldve been really cool but didnt care for anything else in the exec package (headlight washers and heated steering wheel specifically).

There really is a threshold here, and I happened to fall under "I dislike that BMW had soo many standard options that I did not care for"


Regardless of all that, I think my purchase was great value for the money, and couldn't be more happy with my new BMW

[gthal]

That's the beauty of a free market... if you don't feel you are getting value for money, then you can choose not to spend the money and pick something else.

There is absolutely a badge premium (as is the case with all luxury brands) but, again, that's buyers choice to partake.

My wife's Highlander is better optioned than my car and it's $40,000 less... I still choose my BMW over it any day of the week Complaining about the cost is a bit silly because no one but you chooses to spend the bucks. What you are REALLY saying is you want BMW to charge less and give more because you don't really want to spend all of this money... don't we all... but that's not reality and they seem to be doing just fine

[Teutonic]

Heard this complaint many times from many guys, but things are really different.

To say that 320 drives like Corolla it is too much, there is no comparison between the two in any aspect. Had a Corolla in the past, drove the new one; only people who sees driving as a chore, are numb (feeling wise) or don't care, can say that they drive the same.
I always express my views even when I don't like things in BMW but this is too far to be comparable.

Just few points that I can think of:

* 2015 BMW 320 has 8 Speed and 180 HP 1.8 engine- 2015 Corolla has 6 speed (I think 5 in Auto) and 132HP 1.8 engine.

* German cars ALWAYS have torque, Japanese are just a joke. BMW 320 offers you 200 ft-lbs. @ 1250 rpm while Corolla offers you 128 ft-lbs. @ 4400 rpm. Can you see the difference?

* Germans are heavy and strong, -> better crash performance and safety.

* BMW offers engineering, stability, handling, perfect weight distribution, Corolla does not.

* BMW 320 materials, regardless is not 5 series, are waay superior to Corolla.

* BMW is made with a better steel, the quality is different and much better than a Toyota.

* BMW offers 12 years anti-corrosion warranty and body protection, Corolla does not.

* BMW are sportier, even 320 if you know to drive it you put in shame lots of cars out there. This is actually a point that shouldn't even be discussed. Try to attack an apex with a Corolla and then take the cheapest BMW out there and see with what speed you can attack and how it sits. Corolla is just a light "jumping goat".

*BMW even in a 320 offers the same body engineering that is used for their higher models, not the case with Japanese.

*BMW 3 series is still the benchmark everyone wants to achieve, it is the Bread and butter for BMW, they do pay attention to this car.

Not a fanboi statement, but to compare these two is a thing that shouldn't even be brought up in a such forum.
Yeah, Japanese offer DVd and blutooth and USB and nice display but I buy a car for the feeling of driving it, not for the Bluetooth.
There are money invested in that chassis, in that engineering, in the materials. Japanese and Koreans offer you "the moon and the sky" because as we can see, some people are receptive to the options list, not to the handling or behaviour of the car.

It's all about perception....

[Xiaoxi]

Originally Posted by rcl

Now my friends 2016 BMW 320i cost him $35k. He had to pay $700 for the Lighting package to get LED headlights and he had to pay $900 for the Driver Assistance Package to get rear-view camera. Finally he had to pay $350 for bluetooth phone integration. Almost an additional $2k in options just to get a NEW BMW optioned as well as a basic corolla. Is it just me or should basic tech like this be included WITHIN the base msrp of a car that is a 'luxury brand' and commands more than double the msrp of my Corolla. I just feel like when you spend more money, you should get more, not get less. I know you could say well you have to pay to play blah blah blah which it true, I don't mind paying for more but it's just kind of shitty to pay more money for a 'luxury car' when it doesn't even come standard with basic options.

Anyway, your thoughts?

My thoughts are that BMW is the wrong car for you if you primarily care about interior features.

[Xiaoxi]

Originally Posted by rcl

Guys obviously the BMW, really any BMW is better than a corolla. It rides better, brakes better, looks better, handles better, etc.

I was merely pointing out a FACT, that BMW's do not come with some tech options which are pretty commonplace now and can almost be considered basic features, like rear-view camera's. And to get opinions. I never said a corolla is better than a BMW. LOL

I just think a BMW should be better than cheap cars in EVERY ASPECT, including standard features is all.

You realize that Ferraris and some Porsches cost hundreds of thousands and sometimes lack what most would consider basic interior amenities right? And people usually pay MORE for the extra sparse trims.

[Xiaoxi]

Originally Posted by rcl

Guys obviously the BMW, really any BMW is better than a corolla. It rides better, brakes better, looks better, handles better, etc.

I was merely pointing out a FACT, that BMW's do not come with some tech options which are pretty commonplace now and can almost be considered basic features, like rear-view camera's. And to get opinions. I never said a corolla is better than a BMW. LOL

I just think a BMW should be better than cheap cars in EVERY ASPECT, including standard features is all.

You realize that Ferraris and some Porsches cost hundreds of thousands and sometimes lack what most would consider basic interior amenities right? And people usually pay MORE for the extra sparse trims (CSLs, GT3s, etc).

More expensive / more premium brand does not automatically equate to being better than an econobox in every facet. If that's your expectation, head to your local Lexus dealer now and trade in your BMW, and be on your merry way.