[teaston]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

Yes, and they also fitted lower M3 arms to their E92s to gain "more negative camber". But the amount of them stating that their car "drove terribly" and they hadn't done their tracking quite clearly showed that they hadn't the faintest clue what had changed with their geometry - just that it was M3 and had "more negative camber" and was "sick".

the Xdrives have more contact points to keep the hub aligned (basically your camber). You not only have the lower track control arm, steering rack (although that will probably just result in slight changes in tracking under compression/rebound depending how off centre of the king-pin angle it is) and upper mounting point, but also the drive shaft.

I would imagine that the system geometry was setup by taking the drive shaft (and its probable movement) as the starting point to fix the camber. Lowering and operating in a new range of angles may well put more stress on the system as your camber (more positive than before) will be out and more difficult to dial out with standard tolerances. More fixed links.

D.

So what's your conclusion to lowering an xdrive?

[BMWSKI]

I really appreciate your thoughts Pete ...And everyone else's

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by teaston

So what's your conclusion to lowering an xdrive?

I bought an Sdrive because it was already much lower.

Meaning I don't have to fanny around with aftermarket parts and fitting, and hope that it looks lower but still drives faultlessly in all conditions without affecting my warranty.

Without going aftermarket you have to weigh up if the increased ride height, weight and drag are worth the extra traction. Going by the other threads on the subject, there are many different thoughts on that....

D.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

I bought an Sdrive because it was already much lower.

Meaning I don't have to fanny around with aftermarket parts and fitting, and hope that it looks lower but still drives faultlessly in all conditions without affecting my warranty.

Without going aftermarket you have to weigh up if the increased ride height, weight and drag are worth the extra traction. Going by the other threads on the subject, there are many different thoughts on that....

D.

That's why i went for sdrive!

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Accept that... but I did say a few posts back...



Anyone know if the xDrive characteristics and functions are the same in stock and lowered versions. By that I mean "tested" not "I haven't noticed any difference".

I've had too many years in R&D and design to just ignore any possibilities. I'll say it again "eyes wide open", that is why I've joined in.

Just as I started bashing the drum years back, about the limitations of diesel engines with DPF fitted, when we drive short runs and lots of urban driving. Read the forums today and they are filled with folks with DPF issues.

Do what you like guys, but don't shoot the humble messenger.

HighlandPete

Thanks Pete and I agree with the fact there must be a technical reason with regards why BMWs engineers have recommended fitting the higher springs that xdrive have. But I’m just playing a little devils advocate.

But from what I understand ALL xdrive BMWs (even E9X’s) had higher suspension. We know its possible to have 4WD and have lower suspension, just look at Audi’s. I think a lot of us here would actually like to know the real reason why BMW choose to fit higher springs.

[BMWSKI]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Thanks Pete and I agree with the fact there must be a technical reason with regards why BMWs engineers have recommended fitting the higher springs that xdrive have. But I’m just playing a little devils advocate.

But from what I understand ALL xdrive BMWs (even E9X’s) had higher suspension. We know its possible to have 4WD and have lower suspension, just look at Audi’s. I think a lot of us here would actually like to know the real reason why BMW choose to fit higher springs.

well said!

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by dopper99

But from what I understand ALL xdrive BMWs (even E9X’s) had higher suspension. We know its possible to have 4WD and have lower suspension, just look at Audi’s. I think a lot of us here would actually like to know the real reason why BMW choose to fit higher springs.

Where is the transfer case placed on your 335D ? I assume it will lie slightly under the sump, but how much lower is it ?

Might be as simple as trying to keep the driveshafts as level as possible, or having a certain minimum clearance between your transfer case and the ground. Especially if they expect any off road aspirations, or borrow the setup from the X series.

D.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Thanks Pete and I agree with the fact there must be a technical reason with regards why BMWs engineers have recommended fitting the higher springs that xdrive have. But I’m just playing a little devils advocate.

But from what I understand ALL xdrive BMWs (even E9X’s) had higher suspension. We know its possible to have 4WD and have lower suspension, just look at Audi’s. I think a lot of us here would actually like to know the real reason why BMW choose to fit higher springs.

I've no real problem with anyone challenging a viewpoint. It was that very thing that got me into a new business venture, which led to my income and now the company being a plc., supplying a world market. All on the back of being told a problem was 'impossible' to solve, three months later patents were being filed.

On the xDrive issue, we can only guess at BMW's reasons. I suggest they are looking at the bigger picture, the world market and have compromised on a mid range suspension ride height setting. We must remember some markets still have models with "rough-road" suspension, riding higher.

With my design hat on, I do believe they will have calibrated the xDrive to perform at optimum levels within those suspension parameters. I'd like to be proven wrong, but suggest that having different suspension frequencies (due to a lower suspension and higher spring rates) could mean revised calibrations to achieve and comply with BMW target values.

Doesn't mean they can't do that for the F30/31 with current xDrive hardware, with a lower suspension... but who knows the full picture?

HighlandPete

[Tengocity]

I was under the impression that the Alpina D3 can be had as an xdrive in LHD markets... if this is the case then there is clearly a way it can be done, as there is now way I can imagine that Alpina would have a car on the market with standard xdrive ride height!

[BMWSKI]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I've no real problem with anyone challenging a viewpoint. It was that very thing that got me into a new business venture, which led to my income and now the company being a plc., supplying a world market. All on the back of being told a problem was 'impossible' to solve, three months later patents were being filed.
HighlandPete

What is it that you do Pete if you don't mind me asking?

[Waitey]

Interestingly Aberdeen BMW stated to my co worker that if he lowered his 320d x drive the only parts that were no longer covered under warranty were suspension components (springs, shocks, bushes, wishbones et al). Which would imply that there aren't any other major issues with doing it.

It could also be the dealer being retarded.

I've told him to get it in writing from them and then fit the springs.

[BMWSKI]

Originally Posted by Waitey

Interestingly Aberdeen BMW stated to my co worker that if he lowered his 320d x drive the only parts that were no longer covered under warranty were suspension components (springs, shocks, bushes, wishbones et al). Which would imply that there aren't any other major issues with doing it.

It could also be the dealer being retarded.

I've told him to get it in writing from them and then fit the springs.

Interesting that they said that, although I doubt BMW will put anything in writing...

[Waitey]

BMW them selves wouldn't but a dealer being a bit 'slow' might.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Waitey

Interestingly Aberdeen BMW stated to my co worker that if he lowered his 320d x drive the only parts that were no longer covered under warranty were suspension components (springs, shocks, bushes, wishbones et al). Which would imply that there aren't any other major issues with doing it.

It could also be the dealer being retarded.

I've told him to get it in writing from them and then fit the springs.

I doubt they would put it in writing, but in general it would be pretty hard to justify saying to someone that because you changed the springs, we're not going to replace you turbo/idrive/insert random component here!

The whole point of giving a warranty (for a company) is to ensure peace of mind and good customer service, so I don't think it makes that much sense to assume they are going to try and use any excuse to avoid fixing your car whilst under warranty... it's just bad customer service.

Sure, if someone has clearly been abusing their car, not maintained at all like it is supposed to, or modified it such that this caused the issue then fair enough.

Most issues you hear about when there is a disagreement is whether you have a failed component or wear and tear leading to a replacement needing required, or post warranty when major things go wrong... or component failure leads to greater damage eg. swirl flaps

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I was under the impression that the Alpina D3 can be had as an xdrive in LHD markets... if this is the case then there is clearly a way it can be done, as there is now way I can imagine that Alpina would have a car on the market with standard xdrive ride height!

Would be great if we could get more specific than the usual vague descriptions, like the following for the Alpina AWD version.

The new BMW ALPINA B3 Bi-Turbo Allrad utilises the proven possibilities of the excellent BMW xDrive system and offers unparalleled levels of traction and driving dynamics.

It exploits the technical potential of BMW’s xDrive system and its intelligent and dynamic distribution of drive power which continuously and fully variable distributes torque between the front and rear axle within milliseconds.

The torque distribution algorithm communicates with the ALPINA DME and the adaptive suspension system to increase driving dynamics and agility, particularly during high lateral acceleration, creating unexpected sporty and neutral handling despite all-wheel drive.

We know Alpina breath on anything they choose to tune, so who knows what they mean by "utilises the proven possibilities", "exploits the technical potential", or what they have done to "the torque distribution algorithm".

HighlandPete

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Would be great if we could get more specific than the usual vague descriptions, like the following for the Alpina AWD version.





We know Alpina breath on anything they choose to tune, so who knows what they mean by "utilises the proven possibilities", "exploits the technical potential", or what they have done to "the torque distribution algorithm".

HighlandPete

Yes, more information would be great, but I'm just heartened that if Alpina can lower their xdrive version, then it can be done. But at what compromise or cost?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by BMWSKI

What is it that you do Pete if you don't mind me asking?

Biggest part of my career was in the safety business, R@D and design. I started out with an apprenticeship in general engineering, then into the production environment, had a period in the motor trade, but went back into the engineering business. Started my own company along with my father, which led to innovative product in the safety business, which company is now going from strength to strength. I bowed out several years back and basically slowed down to early retirement.

HighlandPete

[F30AM]

@BMWSKI:

Sorry to state the obvious, but do you not think you shaould have bought an sDrive if you are so concerned with the aesthetics?

Put it this way, your car rides high as if on stilts like an SUV, has a saloon body and it will negotiate those speed bumps perfectly. You've got the best of both worlds in a way, just minus the sleek looks.

Be happy.

[BMWSKI]

Originally Posted by F30AM

@BMWSKI:

Sorry to state the obvious, but do you not think you shaould have bought an sDrive if you are so concerned with the aesthetics?

Put it this way, your car rides high as if on stilts like an SUV, has a saloon body and it will negotiate those speed bumps perfectly. You've got the best of both worlds in a way, just minus the sleek looks.

Be happy.

Oh I'm happy alright (apart from my recent body work damage!) but it's nice to have a look about on the World Wide Web to see what might be available...
That's why I posted about ACS exhaust mods recently but that went down like a lead balloon! I don't think I dare start asking about performance upgrades
Your comment 'your car rides high as if on stilts like an SUV' is a tad exaggerated I feel

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by BMWSKI

Oh I'm happy alright (apart from my recent body work damage!) but it's nice to have a look about on the World Wide Web to see what might be available...
That's why I posted about ACS exhaust mods recently but that went down like a lead balloon! I don't think I dare start asking about performance upgrades
Your comment 'your car rides high as if on stilts like an SUV' is a tad exaggerated I feel

It sure is!
But I must admit that to an sDrive owner, the xDrives do look a tad odd.

[dopper99]

It doesn't look odd compared to other manufacturers (look at Fords)!

But it looks a little odd for a BMW.

anyway, it's a small price you have to pay for a fantastic car.

[BMWSKI]

Man I love my car!
Should be picking it up tomorrow afternoon...hopefully the bumper will look like new???