[BMWCali]

Originally Posted by gerbs

Plenty of people are getting 2013s for $0-500 over invoice ("invoice" referring to the vehicle base + vehicle options + destination fee, without adding MACO/Training/Etc. fees.)

In fact, mine was well under invoice (over $1k under) after rebate-based discounts (Olympic discount + BMW FS discount)

What BMW FS discount are you referring to?

[micosilver]

Originally Posted by Red Lined

There are 2 buyers in this world: the educated and the no-clue-how-to-negoitate. I'm guessing you are a CA, so you should already know this.

Bob (a bimmerpost member) walks into your dealership. He grabs the sales manager and offers 500 over invoice minus incentives to order the car. You spend 40 minutes on the credit check, ordering, etc. and are done with Bob. The car comes in, Bob picks it up and you spend no money on floor space, financing, etc.

Net profit from Bob: 500 + CSI (~2500 on a 328). You most likely got your min. though I would assume, but hey do more of these and you'll get a volume bonus.

Donald "the dumbass" walks on the lot. "Oh hey that 328 with the two tone modern line interior is way cool". Of course Don wants a test drive, wants to look things over, get his wife in there to see it, and take up your time. You end up spending hours with Don the "dumbass". Will Don end up buying from you...maybe...maybe not (not as sure as Bob that's for sure).

Say Don the dumbass does decide on buying. Well he likely knows nothing about rebates and such forth so you milk him. $1800 over invoice and keep the credits.

Net profit: 1800 + CSI + creds (if apply)

On the other hand, he took up hours of your time and was not a guaranteed sale like Bob. Plus that car sat on your lot for quite some time eating up sales profit. Who is the better bet, well I guess neither or both depending on how you look at it. Less money for a quicker and sure deal or more money for a time consuming gamble at best. Got to prepare and cater to both crowds.

You are correct, I am a CA, and I would like to offer you a different perspective, a bit closer to real life:

Bob emails every dealer on the West Coast, saing that he is ready to order at the best price. At the same time he is contacting brokers, who then call me on his behalf. It takes 23 emails back and forth to figure out what exactly he wants. In the end, what are my chances to get a sale, when I am competing with 10 other dealers? I am not a math wizard, but I think it is in the 10% range. The sale will go to the most desperate dealer, who is desperate for one of two reasons: either he is located on the edge of an active vulcano, and no one wants to go there, or he is that bad that no one wants to go there. Let's say that by some fluke I win the sale - the chances of Bob being happy and giving me a good CSI are again in the 10% range, because from experience - people that go through that kind of shopping experience are not happy in the end.

Now here is Don who you call "the dumbass". First, it is thanks to Don that we can do Internet sale with no profit, because no matter what the Internet hivermind thinks - a dealership needs profit. Yes, he spends a couple of hours looking and test-driving cars, but for a nice guy - I don't mind. I also don't mind getting him the right car at a fair price, because he will appreciate it, he WILL give me a good CSI because he sees the value in what I do for him, and will come back and will send referrals.

[JustinTJ]

Originally Posted by micosilver

You are correct, I am a CA, and I would like to offer you a different perspective, a bit closer to real life:

Bob emails every dealer on the West Coast, saing that he is ready to order at the best price. At the same time he is contacting brokers, who then call me on his behalf. It takes 23 emails back and forth to figure out what exactly he wants. In the end, what are my chances to get a sale, when I am competing with 10 other dealers? I am not a math wizard, but I think it is in the 10% range. The sale will go to the most desperate dealer, who is desperate for one of two reasons: either he is located on the edge of an active vulcano, and no one wants to go there, or he is that bad that no one wants to go there. Let's say that by some fluke I win the sale - the chances of Bob being happy and giving me a good CSI are again in the 10% range, because from experience - people that go through that kind of shopping experience are not happy in the end.

Now here is Don who you call "the dumbass". First, it is thanks to Don that we can do Internet sale with no profit, because no matter what the Internet hivermind thinks - a dealership needs profit. Yes, he spends a couple of hours looking and test-driving cars, but for a nice guy - I don't mind. I also don't mind getting him the right car at a fair price, because he will appreciate it, he WILL give me a good CSI because he sees the value in what I do for him, and will come back and will send referrals.

This is 100% true. I am amazed at the lengths some people will go to in order to save $200-300 on a 40k purchase. It blows my mind. You're spot on with the CSI score for lowball hagglers. I've read the threads.

Maybe the hagglers work for low wages, but to get the extra savings requires a lot of price matching with dealers. I make a decent bit an hour, so my time isn't work fighting for 500 if a dealer offers me 750.

That's not to say I don't work a good deal. I just don't try to wring every drop of water out of the sponge. My cross country order with Greg took all of 7 emails.

[G80_Soom]

I received $500 over invoice(including training fees) on my '13 335i M-Sport.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Red Lined

There are 2 buyers in this world: the educated and the no-clue-how-to-negoitate. I'm guessing you are a CA, so you should already know this.

Bob (a bimmerpost member) walks into your dealership. He grabs the sales manager and offers 500 over invoice minus incentives to order the car. You spend 40 minutes on the credit check, ordering, etc. and are done with Bob. The car comes in, Bob picks it up and you spend no money on floor space, financing, etc.

Net profit from Bob: 500 + CSI (~2500 on a 328). You most likely got your min. though I would assume, but hey do more of these and you'll get a volume bonus.

Donald "the dumbass" walks on the lot. "Oh hey that 328 with the two tone modern line interior is way cool". Of course Don wants a test drive, wants to look things over, get his wife in there to see it, and take up your time. You end up spending hours with Don the "dumbass". Will Don end up buying from you...maybe...maybe not (not as sure as Bob that's for sure).

Say Don the dumbass does decide on buying. Well he likely knows nothing about rebates and such forth so you milk him. $1800 over invoice and keep the credits.

Net profit: 1800 + CSI + creds (if apply)

On the other hand, he took up hours of your time and was not a guaranteed sale like Bob. Plus that car sat on your lot for quite some time eating up sales profit. Who is the better bet, well I guess neither or both depending on how you look at it. Less money for a quicker and sure deal or more money for a time consuming gamble at best. Got to prepare and cater to both crowds.

Yes, it can work that way. CA's should appreciate knowledgeable customers, as they sell the car to themselves.

But, as with all things, it depends.
Some buyers want all the attention and services, but then want to haggle the last couple hundred dollars expecting everything to go to his liking, and damn the dealer for trying to even make that extra couple hundred.
Plus, as the CA poster said, these types of buyers may likely be the ones who give bad scores cause they always feel like a dealer is always "out to get the customer".

A dealer that is out for maximum profit all the time, will likely not budge on anything.
They'll have $500 doc fees, $500 "dealer fees", $200 pin striping, $300 security etching, $500 paint protection, etc...
The customer is made to feel like he's getting a great deal when the dealer removes or cuts some of the added costs.
Good luck on negotiating anything starting from invoice with that kind of dealer.

Sometimes, even people who do take up a lot of the CA's time will get a $500 over invoice. That's great. Volume dealers will take that deal every time as they make up for any extra profit loss on the volume they sell at that price. Those dealers will hit monthly, quarterly, and yearly sales targets and get the bonus money from BMW.
When you know you're getting a good deal, and you've taken a lot of a CA's time, then all you CSI scores should show perfect. You got a good deal, now let the dealer get his from the manufacturer.

Other dealers are as you just posted.
My CA and sales manager didn't even flinch on my offer.
I'm a return customer. The prior CA is gone, and the new guy even told me that he likes working with customers like me, who take the time to know and understand the details of the sale and the car.
He thinks customers like me should get a great price.
As you said, he has to spend a lot less time trying to "sell" the car to me, because I've already sold the car to me.
All he has to do now is put the order in and do the paperwork when the car comes in. Time is money, so less time spent on any one customer means a CA can spend more time on another.
For that extra effort the CA and dealer work for the extra profit, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[BMWCali]

Originally Posted by Sumithb13

I received $500 over invoice(including training fees) on my '13 335i M-Sport.

Including MACO, too? $500 over invoice including MACO and training?

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by BMWCali

Including MACO, too? $500 over invoice including MACO and training?

Again, when we discuss "invoice" with BMW, MACO and training ARE part of the invoice.

A $500 over INVOICE, means MACO and training are included.
Those items are not like "$500 paint protection package", or
"$500 security etching".

BMW invoice, INCLUDES MACO and training, they are part of the invoice.

[BMWCali]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Again, when we discuss "invoice" with BMW, MACO and training ARE part of the invoice.

A $500 over INVOICE, means MACO and training are included.
Those items are not like "$500 paint protection package", or
"$500 security etching".

BMW invoice, INCLUDES MACO and training, they are part of the invoice.

Makes sense now. I got it.

[BigDadyCool]

yes gettin ready to order a 335i M-sport pk was wondering where are you guys getting the deals with dealer invoice pricing i live in south texas

[tsranga]

Signed my deal today for a fully loaded AH3 -
MSRP – 61070 (Inv - 57K) (Residual – 37252.7 @ 61%) for 10k/36month

Sale Price – 53500 (includes $3500 credit)
Rolled in Fee (Lease protection) – 1295
Downpayment – 3000
first month (570)+ Fees (561) + Acq fee (925) + tax (414) – $1000 rebate = 4470
M.F – 0.0017 (Dealer would not budge with the markup).
Monthly payment – $570.

Did I do well?

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by tsranga

Signed my deal today for a fully loaded AH3 -
MSRP – 61070 (Inv - 57K) (Residual – 37252.7 @ 61%) for 10k/36month

Sale Price – 53500 (includes $3500 credit)
Rolled in Fee (Lease protection) – 1295
Downpayment – 3000
first month (570)+ Fees (561) + Acq fee (925) + tax (414) – $1000 rebate = 4470
M.F – 0.0017 (Dealer would not budge with the markup).
Monthly payment – $570.

Did I do well?

$3500 credit? Where did you get a $3500 credit from?

[pallymore]

It depends on the model and where you live.

If you live in the mid-west and you are trying to buy a 335, bad news: 335s are super expensive in this area - usually it's $1500 more than buying one in cali. Just because there're not too many bmw dealers, and even fewer allocations.
I've run into a dealer that would not sell a 335 under 1.5k above invoice. They are crazy.

Shop around, don't tell anyone your expectations of the price. They will always try to convince you to pay more than what you originally planned.

Good luck!

[Sara]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

$3500 credit? Where did you get a $3500 credit from?

Its an eco credit. We offer it on all of the active hybrids. AH3, AH5, & AH7.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by 335vnm

Its an eco credit. We offer it on all of the active hybrids. AH3, AH5, & AH7.

Gotcha. My bad, since I didn't notice he was talking about the hybrid model.

[Sara]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

Gotcha. My bad, since I didn't notice he was talking about the hybrid model.