[R12ax7]

Originally Posted by trey100

Off topic: Interesting. I see the opposite. I drive 15-17k per year and lease as a result. I get a new car and return it in 3 years with 50k miles, just around when cars don't feel so new anymore. The cost in leasing between 10k per year and 15k pr year is only 3 percent of the MSRP. So a higher mileage driver only pays 500 per year more (plus interest) to drive that extra 5000 miles (assuming a $50k car). If I did drive 10k per year, I would buy a nice certified 2 year old model with 15k miles or so and know I could drive it for 4-5 years and still get some money when I sell it. That is by far the cheapest option. But at 15k, I would have to sell in 3 years before I hit the 70/80k miles mark when the price I could sell it for would drop significantly.

I completely agree! However, you (and I) are paying a slight premium to have that new-ish car at all times. I also agree that premium is small price to pay. Even though I am pretty meticulous about maintaining and keeping my car clean, I also tend to be pretty hard on the interior and mechanicals of my cars, so when they get to that 3+ year mark (and we all know how BMW leather wears) it can be time to move on.

To put it another way, you really want to max out the miles you do drive your leased car to get 100% of what you are paying for. Plus, all of the risk of diminished value (or total loss) due to an accident (even a very minor one that gets submitted to insurance is on the carfax) is on BMWNA instead of you.

The 320i is a fantastic value, I almost wish I had priced out a lease of that in the spec I wanted to compare against the 328 and 335.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by 328skidpad

what scares me is that on one year you will get the 320 for $500 over invoice and then when the leases are up in 2-3 years get the car for under $25K which means everyone will be driving a bmw and will be just as common as a honda accord...

I live in Boston. They are already as common as an Accord. A few years ago I was at a 4-way light and there were 2 other cars waiting at the intersection with me, both of them black e90s. :/

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Bjornagain

Anyone who still wants a BMW to be expensive are welcome to live in Sweden My 320i m-sport and some additional stuff will cost me around $60000. Its a lease and the monthly fee is near $800/month/36 month. Not to mention the $8 a gallon for petrol.

You could really have a blast spending money on your BMW and no one will think less of you for driving a base modell

/bjorn

Yet one more reason, as if the cold weather weren't enough, to mark Sweden off the list of places I might retire.

[HFW003]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Yet one more reason, as if the cold weather weren't enough, to mark Sweden off the list of places I might retire.

I think we win, and keep in mind the Aus$ has been over, or at worst at parity, with the US$ for quite some time now.

A 328I with a few options will go for around $80K, a 335 is around $120K and an M3 is around $170K.

H

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by 328skidpad

what scares me is that on one year you will get the 320 for $500 over invoice and then when the leases are up in 2-3 years get the car for under $25K which means everyone will be driving a bmw and will be just as common as a honda accord...

drivers like me that want a 2014 or 2015 m3 that costs 75K+ will be.....

enough said, I have owned e30, e36 and e90 but my gut feeling is to move on...

bmw's are now directly comparable another sporty mercedes or lexus

I love my 08 335 and 13 convertible 328 but the future looks dim.

hope this makes sense...

bmw has moved from a company that has diversified their products instead of differentiating their products ( yeah have a MBA degree) which caters to a different demographics

agree?

Several thoughts:

If you want a BMW and you want exclusivity, you need to buy an old M3, an M1, a 1M, an 8er, an M6 or an Alpina. Alternately, you could move to some place where folks mostly don't buy BMWs.

How much market share do you think BMW can gain by differentiating their product? Cars, for most consumers, are commodities, and regardless of what BMW do to differentiate the product, it won't matter other than perhaps that it may effect a drop in market share. Moreover, at the $50K+ price point, barring something really innovative, there's nothing BMW's going to be able to do that their competition can't in 2-3 years match.

Also, where should the differentiation occur? MB proved that doing it in the safety area (remember MB was the first with ABS) isn't the answer. Where did that get them? Every car has ABS. You can't do it on style; Jaguar showed us that. They had plenty of style and still couldn't capture market dominance, even as leasing, which pretty well means a car need only be any good for 2-4 years, became the dominant car acquisition method. You can't do it appointments because any car maker can immediately match them. BMW can't do it on price because BMW have no desire to compete purely on price; that's just not part of their business model. If BMW is to put out a differentiated product, it'll, I think, most likely be in their electric cars. My personal suggestion would be to vastly increase the fuel efficiency of the BMW cars -- all of them -- by finding a way to recapture the energy of the spinning of the axles to create additional HP or battery recharging. Seems to me that with all that spinning going on, you have the major part of a dynamo right there. But I'm no engineer, I'm an idea guy.

Out of curiosity, how would you differentiate the BMW models so that they are still price competitive across a wide spectrum ($31K to $70K for a 3 or M3 series, for example)? (Seems to me that having one car that can span such a broad spectrum of the buying public is differentiation in itself.) Personally, I think there's a reason why the three series can be had across such a wide span of pricepoints: it's the "everyman" car in BMW's lineup and it wouldn't surprise me to find that it covers the cost of the rest of the BMW lineup. The 5er is somewhat the same, though to a clearly lesser degree given that it costs more than double what most folks pay for a car. But a car can't be very unique and be everyman's car.

Now depending on how it's priced, I can imagine the 1 or 2 series cars may be the differentiated product you seek. If they retain the handling for which BMW is known and can be had for <$35K, pretty well equipped, that's your car. I don't think it'll be exclusive, but it should be differentiated from the other stuff at or below that price point.

[BAMxi]

I guess I just don't get what the fuss is about from the "our car is going to be the next Honda Accord" crowd. Yes, there likely will continue to be more BMWs on the road, but never as many as hondas or toyotas, simply because they appeal to a different consumer base. It all comes down to branding, and following through on the promise of that branding. BMW is currently one of the most desirable brands in the world, and they have built their brand (in my mind) largely upon quality and performance. While the performance aspect can be argued either way in regards to the 320i, the quality must remain high. I see a lot of similarities between BMW and Apple. Think about when the first iphone came out, and everybody else either had feature phones, blackberrys or Moto RAZRs (I had the latter ). For a good while there, the iphone seemed exclusive. But it wasn't exclusive because other people just flat out couldn't afford to get one, it was exclusive because the initial majority either didn't perceive the value in the iphone, or were not in the market for one. It was also only available on one carrier, and cost considerably more than most "feature phones" of the time. After a while, people did start to perceive the value in the iPhone, and the demand for all Apple devices grew, due to its success. Their branding for the iphone took over and they became known by an increasing number of people to build quality products in all areas of electronics. Their Mac sales began to grow, and along with that, there began to be more and more competition. In order to prevent people from going after low-cost alternatives from competitors, they had to innovate further. First it was with new models of iPhone, but then it was iPads, and then it was iPad Minis, the MacBook Air, etc. I don't think that any of those products coming out have actually tarnished Apple's brand, even though I can't walk into a library without seeing 14 hipsters all on their macbooks and iphones (macbook users are hipsters, BMW guys are douches...I think these stereotypes mean your brand has made it. haha). That doesn't take away that Apple is generally known to build quality products. Just because the iPad mini is cheaper than the regular iPad, that doesn't mean the brand as a whole is lessened. the products serve a specific purpose for a specific person. And there will always be brand loyalists and those who prefer another brand entirely. People could (and do) very easily buy a comparable windows Ultrabook or android tablet versus a macbook air or iPad, and maybe save a few bucks, or maybe pay almost the same amount for the device. those are the Honda Accord people in our BMW example. The majority of those people were never considering an apple product (BMW) in the first place. They wanted that acer laptop because it suited their needs, they were comfortable with it, and knew it would last.

So, if exclusivity is all that matters to you, then I feel like you need to look further upstream, as BMW is entering into a momentum phase, where large growth is occurring. You could likely find some exclusivity in Jaguar still, as they're rebranding themselves and fighting for market share. Beyond the "entry level luxury" brands, you'll need to step up into Maserati, Aston, or the like.

.....and for the record, i typed that on my $300 acer laptop and own an iphone for another two days, until my HTC One gets here.

[Bjornagain]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Yet one more reason, as if the cold weather weren't enough, to mark Sweden off the list of places I might retire.

But you are forgetting the girls, swedish awsome blond girls. They make up for several things

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

It is a good point.

I have 180HP in my E46 (probably puts less to the wheels than the F30 320i even), and I just wanted a little bit more power so I opted for the 328i.

Around here with traffic it's rare you get to run up the revs to the redline without having to hit the brakes shortly after, but I guess being able to spec out the options on the 328i (DHP and HK Audio alone) forced me away from the 320i.

I agree man I love my 135 but i have a hard time revving it up to hear the engine sing. After redlining a gear or 2 I'm already at an highly illegal speed. I also think the 328 is the best of the bunch, enough power for the US along with perfect 50/50 distribution not to mention great gas mileage.

[Bjornagain]

Originally Posted by HFW003

I think we win, and keep in mind the Aus$ has been over, or at worst at parity, with the US$ for quite some time now.

A 328I with a few options will go for around $80K, a 335 is around $120K and an M3 is around $170K.

H

Just for the sake of it, whats your income if you dont mind me asking? I work with IT at à bank and have $7500 à month. And after the famous swedish tax ill net $4600

[HFW003]

Originally Posted by Bjornagain

Just for the sake of it, whats your income if you dont mind me asking? I work with IT at à bank and have $7500 à month. And after the famous swedish tax ill net $4600

Not a prob!

The average Australian salary I believe is around $80K and I earn around double that.

I'm pretty lucky as well as my vehicle and all costs are fully paid for by my employer.


H

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Bjornagain

But you are forgetting the girls, swedish awsome blond girls. They make up for several things

You've got a point there. And I know I have a lot of wisdom I could share with them.

The reality, however is that no young, blond girl is going to have me any more, aside from maybe a gold digger. And I have three kids, so don't need anyone else around who wants my money.

Now all my kids have girlfriends. But, you see, I'm at the point in life where you have to call them your "old woman friend." And frankly, a shriveled up, old blond woman hobbling in from the cold is no better or worse than old, shriveled up any other kind of woman hobbling hobbling inf from the cold. And frankly, I prefer them warmed up and ready to go when they come through the door. (If I recall, there's no legal prostitution in Sweden, so I doubt I'd be sampling the odd fresh fruit here and there. )