[rconti]

Originally Posted by Yobyot

OTOH, maybe they'll never admit a newer 3 is any good; after all, the F30 320i will come with RFTs, electric power steering and, mega-sin, no dipstick.

Not to mention those godawful window switches on the ARMREST instead of on the center console, as god intended!

And now I hear BMW's moving to steering wheel-mounted buttons for cruise control on future models, instead of the cruise control stalk? For shame.

[BAMxi]

Well, it looks like the wait is over for the US release. I saw over a hundred 320i entries for sale on cars.com earlier today. I look forward to seeing some reviews and what the tuners can extract from the car.

[LeifW]

Originally Posted by rconti

Incorrect. I know lots of long-time car enthusiasts, who have owned many BMWs, who are excited about the 'simple' 320.

You realize we already have plenty of threads here where 335 owners with a chip on their shoulder are ranting about how 328s are for poor people who just want the badge, right?

There's more to driving than HP, and I'd argue the person who NEEDS the 335 to be happy knows less about true performance than the person who is happy with less HP.

Not to say there aren't plenty of brand whores out there, but it's not like being able to pay another hundreds dollars a month on a lease suddenly identifies you as an enthusiast.

Hell, for that matter, very few enthusiasts I know actually buy new cars, because paying out the nose to have the latest and greatest is more correlated with money/status than it is with car enjoyment.

So it simply doesn't make sense to try to create these artificial categories of which model is driven by more enthusiasts.

+1


Leif W.

[flyga3]

Originally Posted by rconti

Incorrect. I know lots of long-time car enthusiasts, who have owned many BMWs, who are excited about the 'simple' 320.

You realize we already have plenty of threads here where 335 owners with a chip on their shoulder are ranting about how 328s are for poor people who just want the badge, right?

There's more to driving than HP, and I'd argue the person who NEEDS the 335 to be happy knows less about true performance than the person who is happy with less HP.

Not to say there aren't plenty of brand whores out there, but it's not like being able to pay another hundreds dollars a month on a lease suddenly identifies you as an enthusiast.

Hell, for that matter, very few enthusiasts I know actually buy new cars, because paying out the nose to have the latest and greatest is more correlated with money/status than it is with car enjoyment.

So it simply doesn't make sense to try to create these artificial categories of which model is driven by more enthusiasts.

+1

[AMMZING]

The only sour point i had with the 320i is that BMW isnt offering any of the additional safety features like the ones that are available on the 328i, such as blind spot warning, lane departure warning, etc.

[Peter S.]

Having driven my new factory-ordered 320i sedan, sport package, six-speed manual, for a week now, and 530 miles, I have to say it is a worthy replacement for my 2003 factory-ordered E46 325, sport package, five speed. I adored that car, on the road and on the track, but after 150,000 miles, it was costing me more each year than its resale value, and I could not trust it not to come up with a new issue. The new sport package is far superior to the 2003 version and the driving experience is terrific--pure fun to drive, even more than my two previous three-series sedans.

[DarkTrigger]

Originally Posted by Peter S.

Having driven my new factory-ordered 320i sedan, sport package, six-speed manual, for a week now, and 530 miles, I have to say it is a worthy replacement for my 2003 factory-ordered E46 325, sport package, five speed. I adored that car, on the road and on the track, but after 150,000 miles, it was costing me more each year than its resale value, and I could not trust it not to come up with a new issue. The new sport package is far superior to the 2003 version and the driving experience is terrific--pure fun to drive, even more than my two previous three-series sedans.

Nice. 150k miles is pretty impressive.

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by Peter S.

Having driven my new factory-ordered 320i sedan, sport package, six-speed manual, for a week now, and 530 miles, I have to say it is a worthy replacement for my 2003 factory-ordered E46 325, sport package, five speed. I adored that car, on the road and on the track, but after 150,000 miles, it was costing me more each year than its resale value, and I could not trust it not to come up with a new issue. The new sport package is far superior to the 2003 version and the driving experience is terrific--pure fun to drive, even more than my two previous three-series sedans.

I'm in the exact same boat. 2001 E46 and 120K miles. Didn't wanna deal with brakes, transmission, god knows what else, so I'm holding onto it until my F30 comes in!

[turbolag]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

Yeah, I would love to see those 335i owners rear their attitude on these boards now....I mean, if you really want an "exclusive" BMW, the only ONE I can think of is:

4-door Darkar Yellow M3 (recent gen)...

Or maybe an individual order of a M5/M6/M6 coupe.

Those are at significantly different price points than a 3-series...which is a bread and butter model for BMW regardless (ie, comparable to Toyota's Camry, Ford's Fusion, etc.)

2-door Dakar Yellows were also made.

Even more exclusive would be the Signal Green one.

[Peter S.]

I did a quick check of my miles driven in the past decade, to see if leasing made sense for me, as I looked at getting a new bimmer. In the first five years with my E46, I averaged 10K miles a year, since I commuted to work by bicycle and bus. The past five years, since I retired, I've averaged 20K miles a year. I might need to think about new cars every five years....

[DarkTrigger]

Originally Posted by Peter S.

I did a quick check of my miles driven in the past decade, to see if leasing made sense for me, as I looked at getting a new bimmer. In the first five years with my E46, I averaged 10K miles a year, since I commuted to work by bicycle and bus. The past five years, since I retired, I've averaged 20K miles a year. I might need to think about new cars every five years....

Yea, I've got over 8k miles on mine and only had it for 6 months. Leasing doesn't make sense for real commuters.

Nice to see some 320i owners trickling in. Welcome!

[ColoBlueMax]

Originally Posted by 328skidpad

what scares me is that on one year you will get the 320 for $500 over invoice and then when the leases are up in 2-3 years get the car for under $25K which means everyone will be driving a bmw and will be just as common as a honda accord...

Quick, buy a Fisker...or better yet head down to your local TruValue hardware and pick up a case of dayglo orange spray paint to give your current ride a 'custom' paint job! Then you'll have the satisfaction of having a "one of a kind" car!

[trey100]

Originally Posted by DarkTrigger

Yea, I've got over 8k miles on mine and only had it for 6 months. Leasing doesn't make sense for real commuters.

Nice to see some 320i owners trickling in. Welcome!

Off topic: Interesting. I see the opposite. I drive 15-17k per year and lease as a result. I get a new car and return it in 3 years with 50k miles, just around when cars don't feel so new anymore. The cost in leasing between 10k per year and 15k pr year is only 3 percent of the MSRP. So a higher mileage driver only pays 500 per year more (plus interest) to drive that extra 5000 miles (assuming a $50k car). If I did drive 10k per year, I would buy a nice certified 2 year old model with 15k miles or so and know I could drive it for 4-5 years and still get some money when I sell it. That is by far the cheapest option. But at 15k, I would have to sell in 3 years before I hit the 70/80k miles mark when the price I could sell it for would drop significantly.

[bimmerjph]

Personally, even if money was no object, I would probably buy the 320i. I say that because its quick, but its not so quick that you can't redline it without getting into trouble. Plus the fact that its lighter than my car is appealing as well.

[tony20009]

The simple truth, for me at least, is that regardless of what the starting price is, the overwhelming majority of BMW that I've configured, with the stuff I would want, on BMW's site 1 and 3, series cars will come in costing between $45K and $50K. It doesn't matter which model I pick, 135, 135is, 320, 328 or 335, sedan or 2-door. The point is that when it's all said and done, each car essentially has the exact same options/gizmos, save perhaps leather seats on a 335i 2-door, which I can do without if seeing as it keeps the cost down, and it's possible to get everything else I want without getting them and still come in at $50K.

Personally, I think BMW have had a cadre of mathematicians and marketing geeks sit down and figure all the permutations of gizmos that the typical person willing/able (but not necessarily wanting to) to spend up to $60K for a daily driver would configure and then arrange those options so that s/he will spend the same (roughly -- I see $5K as the limit of what distinguishes one price from another when talking about cars costing between $40K and $80K) sum regardless of which model s/he configures.

In principle, I'm fine with the 320i, but in practice, optioned the way I want it, it's essentially the same price as the $328i, I can't see myself buying it, in the absence of some great incentive to do so.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by trey100

Off topic: Interesting. I see the opposite. I drive 15-17k per year and lease as a result. I get a new car and return it in 3 years with 50k miles, just around when cars don't feel so new anymore. The cost in leasing between 10k per year and 15k pr year is only 3 percent of the MSRP. So a higher mileage driver only pays 500 per year more (plus interest) to drive that extra 5000 miles (assuming a $50k car). If I did drive 10k per year, I would buy a nice certified 2 year old model with 15k miles or so and know I could drive it for 4-5 years and still get some money when I sell it. That is by far the cheapest option. But at 15k, I would have to sell in 3 years before I hit the 70/80k miles mark when the price I could sell it for would drop significantly.

I'm something of a cheapskate when it comes to what I'll spend, overall, on a car. I buy nice cars and I buy them with a moderate level of options (depending on what's standard in the first place). But I was raised by parents who grew up in the Depression and who instilled in me a great disdain for debt. So, I pay cash for my cars and I keep them for as long as they are in good running order or until I just really am tired of it, regardless of whether it's worn out or not.

Hell, when I got married, my folks gave us their '86 MB S Class since we didn't really have a big, family car and I still have it. I don't drive it much, but it's been the "training car" for my kids until I get them their own cars. I've got one more kid who's yet to get his own car. I'll probably just let the MB go or gift it to a relative once I've bought my youngest's car for him. It runs fine and it's in outstanding shape inside and out, but having three other cars, I just don't have a need for it. (FWIW, I think the heated garage we put in back in the late 90s has something to do with it's surviving so long, but it could be that we just take care of things.) Are MBs that are that old collectible yet? Or are they just old?

I buy new, but I am just now about to hit 50K miles on my 335i, I'm still not at 12K on my F10. My last daily driver, a 1993 318i, I bought new in '93 and kept it until 2007. It wasn't broken; I didn't replace it. Well sort of. The driver's side fog lamp didn't work and I wasn't willing to pay BMW $500 (in 1998 when it broke) to fix it.

Buying used would be even cheaper, but as I keep them for so long, I just go ahead and buy new, mainly for my peace of mind.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by tony20009

In principle, I'm fine with the 320i, but in practice, optioned the way I want it, it's essentially the same price as the $328i, I can't see myself buying it, in the absence of some great incentive to do so.

The same applies to my build, a similarly equipped 320i is less than 2k difference including tax, so it is not bad for 60+HP. On the other hand, a base 320i MT with just sports package and lighting is $33k+ invoice, and many enthusiasts may go for that.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by f30fanboy

The same applies to my build, a similarly equipped 320i is less than 2k difference including tax, so it is not bad for 60+HP. On the other hand, a base 320i MT with just sports package and lighting is $33k+ invoice, and many enthusiasts may go for that.

I can understand your last point. Indeed, when I bought my first 3er in 1993, I went very bare bones, so I can see how others may opt for that too. Heck, even just 4 or 5 years ago, I was OK with my cars being pretty lean on the option. Now, not so much, probably because I bought my F10 loaded to the gills and screwed myself because now, I don't want to do without the gizmos.

[Bjornagain]

Anyone who still wants a BMW to be expensive are welcome to live in Sweden My 320i m-sport and some additional stuff will cost me around $60000. Its a lease and the monthly fee is near $800/month/36 month. Not to mention the $8 a gallon for petrol.

You could really have a blast spending money on your BMW and no one will think less of you for driving a base modell

/bjorn

[doublevanosrc]

I think the 320i is a good model, especially here in the states where the top speed limit is like 80mph. I saw an old lady yesterday driving an F30 328 luxury doing like 60mph in the right lane. Of course the rest of traffic was doing like 80mph, but i was thinking to myself why didn't she get a 320i?? She would of been the perfect customer for it.

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

I think the 320i is a good model, especially here in the states where the top speed limit is like 80mph. I saw an old lady yesterday driving an F30 328 luxury doing like 60mph in the right lane. Of course the rest of traffic was doing like 80mph, but i was thinking to myself why didn't she get a 320i?? She would of been the perfect customer for it.

It is a good point.

I have 180HP in my E46 (probably puts less to the wheels than the F30 320i even), and I just wanted a little bit more power so I opted for the 328i.

Around here with traffic it's rare you get to run up the revs to the redline without having to hit the brakes shortly after, but I guess being able to spec out the options on the 328i (DHP and HK Audio alone) forced me away from the 320i.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

I think the 320i is a good model, especially here in the states where the top speed limit is like 80mph. I saw an old lady yesterday driving an F30 328 luxury doing like 60mph in the right lane. Of course the rest of traffic was doing like 80mph, but i was thinking to myself why didn't she get a 320i?? She would of been the perfect customer for it.

She was probably driving to a track event...