[not.ramos]

So I have been curious and I have seen that some people run JB4 and BM3/MHD on top of that - what are the benefits of doing this instead of running JB4 alone or BM3/MHD alone? What is "better" for the money? Pros and cons?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

From the FAQ:



FAQ:

What benefits does a back end flash map add to the JB4?

Adding in the back end flash map allows JB4 adjustment over a wider
range of engine parameters than are available on the factory flash.
Including direct adjustment of timing and fueling tables, VANOS
adjustment, fuel scalar adjustment for heavier E85 mixtures than
possible JB4 only, speed limiter delete, optional exhaust burble,
higher calculated torque reported to the automatic transmission, and a
host of other parameters than are only possible via flashing the DME.

What are the benefits of running a JB4 with a flash rather than flash
only for tuning?

While it's possible to tune an F series without a JB4 doing so comes
with many disadvantages.

1) With JB4s unique features and logic paths, combined with the
flexibility of adjusting DME tables directly via the back end flash
map, you get better quality, safety, and more powerful tuning. The JB4
includes more robust safety systems than are possible via flash only.
Starting with fundamental safety systems like reverting to a safety
map if boost exceeds your safety setting, if the air/fuel ratio in
either bank turns dangerously lean, or if fuel pressure drops below a
safe level. While you might think the DME alone can handle these basic
safety systems surprisingly it's not the case. The DME will happily
let you run along at full power and a 18:1 AFR, with boost pegged, and
the only fuel pressure safety provided is when fuel pressure drops
down so low fuel injection itself has to be suspended.

2) More mapping options including absolute boost target maps. The JB4
boost control system is programmed to offer both absolute and additive
maps. Absolute meaning you'll always target a specific boost level.
Unlike the DME which naturally implements a LOAD control system where
boost levels go down when it's cold and go up when its warm. The
opposite of what you generally want for turbocharged performance. In
addition the JB4 is quick and easily adaptable to a wide range of
setups eliminating the need for expensive custom boost tuning and the
risks that come with repeated logs on systems that are not yet setup.
It's not uncommon for engine damage to occur while a new setup is
initially being dialed in. The JB4 automatically tunes wastegate
dutycycle, fuel trims, and other important tuning criteria full time
in the background greatly simplifying the tuning process. In addition
the JB4 auto-tuning map can self tune for various ethanol mixtures
without the need of an expensive and difficult to install flex fuel
sensor. Pedal to boost mapping, spool aggression, boost by gear, and
other critical factors can be easily adjusted to suit the needs for
the particular track or racing situation.

3) On the fly changes. Whether it's changing the boost/power level,
boost by gear setting (including being able to disable it on the fly
for burn outs or if traction turns out to be better than expected),
pedal input, exhaust flap position, or what gauges are shown in dash,
the JB4 allows a wide range of user adjustment real time from the
drivers seat without having to use a 3rd party device or risk
programming the DME between runs. You're able to make the changes
while out on the track where you need to make them.

4) The JB4 allows for much better real time feedback to the driver.
User adjustable in dash gauges allow you to keep a constant eye on
boost, timing, knock, meth flow, and/or AFR, all selectable and
changeable on the fly from the drivers seat. A user adjustable shift
light can be triggered making rowing through the gears easier. JB4
Mobile allows wireless bluetooth logging via your Android or Apple
phone without a cable locked in your OBDII port. In addition you can
select map0 on the fly to allow OBDII port logging and diagnostics
when needed for vehicle service. The JB4 default logging set includes
all relevant data required for tuning including boost, timing
cylinders 1-6, AFR and fuel trims in both banks, high and low fuel
pressure, load, calculated torque, trans temperature, and many other
parameters. The JB4 provides a simple to use but incredibly robust
data logging system eliminating the need to select what parameters to
record before each run and providing instant on the fly charting
without the need of 3rd party internet programs. We routinely add
parameters to the JB4 logging set based on customer feedback and
evolving tuning requirements.

5) Integrated JB4 features such as anti-lag, port injection control,
flex fuel sensor, and progressive water/meth (WMI) control eliminate
the need for independent add on boxes that are more difficult to
install and technically unable to communicate with each other.
Integration allows these extra features to share information for a
smooth and cohesive tuning solution. When the DME requests a torque
drop due to traction or stability control the JB4, WMI, and PI systems
all respond accordingly. WMI integration is able to hold boost levels
low UNTIL fluid is flowing adequately to prevent spool up and
transitional knock, adjust your boost target if the fluid being
injected turns out not to be as potent as was expected or required to
prevent knock, and in the event of a fail-safe depending on the
severity of the situation either lower your boost target partially OR
instantly dump boost out the diverter/close the throttle/cut timing.
These are just some of the many examples of why having add on boxes an
features all integrated through a single system is advantageous.

6) Free maps for life. The JB4 is widely used and widely supported
including free unlocked back end flash maps and custom mapping support
from BMS via the n54tech support forum. BMS sponsors and attends
several 1/4 mile and 1/2 mile races per year continuously improving
the JB4 base maps and features based on real world experience and
feedback. These updates are provided free of charge to JB4 customers
via n54tech firmware posts.

7) The JB4 hardware is robust, reliable, highly developed, and
upgradable, with many thousands of systems in use since 2008 when it
was first released. The key to the JB4’s success is that it DOES NOT
replace the factory engine computer or DME. The JB4 simply adds on to
functionality already provided by the DME. As a result the DME remains
in full control of your engine at all times with the JB4 dynamically
making small but impactful adjustments to add in extra safety systems
and features and dramatically improve performance. And unlike
disposable flash maps the JB4 is a physical system you can remove and
resell down the road.

Once I flash the DME can the dealership tell? What if I flash it back to stock?

Modifying your vehicle is not without risks and we believe flashing
the DME is traceable even if flashed to stock. If you are really
concerned about your warranty, it's best not to flash your vehicle.
That said when used in conjunction with the JB4's expanded safety
systems and mapping use/guidelines, expect a relatively high level of
reliability at the elevated power levels.

What flash time options are available?

Certain settings can be toggled on/off or adjusted during the flashing
process itself. Including the user adjustable exhaust burble settings,
speed limiter delete, cold start delete, CEL delete, etc. MHD will be
adding these as their development progresses.

[not.ramos]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

From the FAQ:



FAQ:

What benefits does a back end flash map add to the JB4?...

Thanks Mike!

[mike@x-ph.com]

You basically would be getting the best of both worlds.

Flash smooth power delivery and access to ECU tables + All the Jb4 features that are not offered with a flash tune

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

You basically would be getting the best of both worlds.

Flash smooth power delivery and access to ECU tables + All the Jb4 features that are not offered with a flash tune

The jB4 I can use with the AA flash as a logging tool right Mike?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

The jB4 I can use with the AA flash as a logging tool right Mike?

You sure can ... You can take advantage of the Jb4's datalogging feautures and boost by gear for a better traction control

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

You sure can ... You can take advantage of the Jb4's datalogging feautures and boost by gear for a better traction control

Have X drive so the traction thing /no issue PM me price on JB4 thx.

I can leave the JB4 to log but I do have the option to modify the fuel tables of the AA flash with the JB4/ not that I would do that but just curious if it gives me that capability?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

Have X drive so the traction thing /no issue PM me price on JB4 thx.

I can leave the JB4 to log but I do have the option to modify the fuel tables of the AA flash with the JB4/ not that I would do that but just curious if it gives me that capability?

You can put the Jb4 on map 4 which means you can still use all the JB4 features but no tuning

You can increase or decrease boost using the Jb4 ... i would use AA flash to change any ignition or AFR value

Pm coming your way

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

You can put the Jb4 on map 4 which means you can still use all the JB4 features but no tuning

You can increase or decrease boost using the Jb4 ... i would use AA flash to change any ignition or AFR value

Pm coming your way

Well i guess i will be seeking your input when we set this bad boy up then! I do like the safety reliability thing under higher power levels as was quoted.

Jb4 on map 4 no tuning is the ticket then!

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

Well i guess i will be seeking your input when we set this bad boy up then! I do like the safety reliability thing under higher power levels as was quoted.

Jb4 on map 4 no tuning is the ticket then!

yup...

JB4 is a great tool on its own or used with a back end flash specifically for it or like above..

Mike

[deezeedee335]

Quick question and sorry if this is redundant.

If I run BM3 with JB4 map 1, would I essentially up the boost levels further (3-4 PSI) from what the BM3 flash has already programmed?

Trying to do my research because I am not too familiar with flash tunes.

Really trying to figure this out because I am already running a JB4 and the info from all the BM3 performance numbers have me interested.

Thanks

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by deezeedee335

Quick question and sorry if this is redundant.

If I run BM3 with JB4 map 1, would I essentially up the boost levels further (3-4 PSI) from what the BM3 flash has already programmed?

Trying to do my research because I am not too familiar with flash tunes.

Really trying to figure this out because I am already running a JB4 and the info from all the BM3 performance numbers have me interested.

Thanks

I have BM3 but i didnt want to buy MHD to get BMS Free BEF, so now he made it available and look what just happened. I can load the BMS FREE BEF on BM3 and choose / edit / a BEF or my BM3 OTS Map

[harkes]

Originally Posted by FSociety

I have BM3 but i didnt want to buy MHD to get BMS Free BEF, so now he made it available and look what just happened. I can load the BMS FREE BEF on BM3 and choose / edit / a BEF or my BM3 OTS Map

F YEAH!!!

I was just about to pull the trigger on MHD hahaha!

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by FSociety

I have BM3 but i didnt want to buy MHD to get BMS Free BEF, so now he made it available and look what just happened. I can load the BMS FREE BEF on BM3 and choose / edit / a BEF or my BM3 OTS Map

Can you edit BM3 OTS maps?

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by harkes

F YEAH!!!

I was just about to pull the trigger on MHD hahaha!

*** WARNING PROCEED SLOWLY ***

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Can you edit BM3 OTS maps?

No they're not meant to be editable right now, but I can edit BMS BEF

[28nomad]

You guys are just making things harder to figure out lol. I was all set on mhd when they go live for the 14 f N55 cars but now I’m back to thinking researching and thinking more.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by FSociety

*** WARNING PROCEED SLOWLY ***

Pfffffffffffff...no guts no glory

[JaredG_F30]

That is F'ing stellar. How would I procure such maps? I don't have JB4 currently but have thought about using it as a meth controller and for logging when I'm ready to get into the 500hp club.

Originally Posted by FSociety

I have BM3 but i didnt want to buy MHD to get BMS Free BEF, so now he made it available and look what just happened. I can load the BMS FREE BEF on BM3 and choose / edit / a BEF or my BM3 OTS Map

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by 28nomad

You guys are just making things harder to figure out lol. I was all set on mhd when they go live for the 14 f N55 cars but now I’m back to thinking researching and thinking more.

LOL, well we just like to test the waters we dont sit still

Originally Posted by JaredG_F30

That is F'ing stellar. How would I procure such maps? I don't have JB4 currently but have thought about using it as a meth controller and for logging when I'm ready to get into the 500hp club.

Let the guru's test it out first such as harkes and we'll see how it goes. The BMS BEF are to use be used with piggybacks that are adding boost and are free to use and edit from his website. The problem is, he doesn't use BM3 and says he doesnt know how it works (but im sure he does just doesn't want his followers ditching mhd now)

It was just a random test I did yesterday and loaded all BIN files simply by adding the file to my account and was able to compare N55 EWG BEF he has currently in testing. So definitely not something I recommend anyone to try as they're still in BETA (only been 3 months) "just seeing their progress"

[JaredG_F30]

Got it!! No rush as I'm not going to be adding power mods until after LSD and coilovers. By the time I am ready to go PI or meth this will probably be all worked out. Good to see some insight into the future though. Just makes me more happy with my decision to go BM3. Thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by FSociety

LOL, well we just like to test the waters we dont sit still



Let the guru's test it out first such as harkes and we'll see how it goes. The BMS BEF are to use be used with piggybacks that are adding boost and are free to use and edit from his website. The problem is, he doesn't use BM3 and says he doesnt know how it works (but im sure he does just doesn't want his followers ditching mhd now)

It was just a random test I did yesterday and loaded all BIN files simply by adding the file to my account and was able to compare N55 EWG BEF he has currently in testing. So definitely not something I recommend anyone to try as they're still in BETA (only been 3 months) "just seeing their progress"

[harkes]

Originally Posted by FSociety

Let the guru's test it out first such as harkes and we'll see how it goes.

Damn this is going directly on my trophy wall

[harkes]

Originally Posted by JaredG_F30

Got it!! No rush as I'm not going to be adding power mods until after LSD and coilovers. By the time I am ready to go PI or meth this will probably be all worked out. Good to see some insight into the future though. Just makes me more happy with my decision to go BM3. Thanks for sharing!

I'll have some acceleration/traction numbers for you before next week - E-diff vs Quaife ATB