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      01-14-2014, 03:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
I think it's kind of crazy to think the M3 is just a suped up 335 N55.
That's exactly what it is... maybe more suped up this time around than in the last few generations, but still a 3 at it's core.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
-Active rear differential (a lot more than "just" an LSD);
-Carbon fiber all over the place, weight on par with e46 m3;
-Suspension and brakes that will be at home on the track, would probably require 2-3k for a comparable suspension upgrade and 3k for brake upgrade (not sure about "M brake upgrade for 500", maybe that cuts it);
-DCT or rev matching 6 speed, should have lighter dual mass flywheel, carbon fiber drive shaft;
-Body lines aren't comparable, the M is much more aggressive;
-Wheels etc, should be monoblock forged 19's good for 5lbs off each corner is my guess.
-Possibly some kind of valved exhaust;
-Higher revving engine;
  • Diff...We'll see how good the new active rear diff on the M3 is - I don't know much about it yet, but I'd be surprised if it's substantially better than other good LSDs
  • Weight savings is a very fair point... the couple hundred pounds weight savings is another aspect of the M3 that has me seriously interested in it.
  • Suspension I mentioned...
  • Brakes... (not counting the optional ceramic version) probably won't be that much different than the M-Sport/M-Perf brakes, which many of us have found to be very strong on the track
  • DCT is excellent; I know the 8SAT is not the same, but like I said, I am currently very happy with my 8SAT on the track
  • Body lines... VERY similar on the M3 and MSport 335. The M3's flared wheel arches are the main differentiating factor to me
  • Wheels...I picked up a set of inexpensive Apex 18" track wheels...at 18.65# apiece, I doubt the M3's forged 19" wheels would offer a performance advantage
  • Exhaust...not sure what advantage the M3 exhaust will offer that car over what the M Performance exhaust provides on my 335...maybe there is, but I'm not aware of it
  • Higher revving engine...yep, nothing a 335 can really do about that. But I'm pretty happy with the 335s engine on the track
To your list I would also add cooling... there are a few good IC options available now, but I haven't experienced any cooling issues on the track (yet?), so this isn't high on my list at this point.


I still think that - in addition to the power (which can be addressed in a 335 if so desired) - the big disadvantages for the 335 that aren't fairly inexpensive to correct are the LSD and suspension...and of course the weight!

To be clear, I am not advocating buying and modding a 335 as an alternative to buying an M3... just saying that for those who already own a 335 M sport with a few factory/M Perf options, you don't have to go crazy to have a respectable track car (in lieu of selling it to buy an M3).
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      01-14-2014, 07:50 PM   #24
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it will really be interesting to see heavily modified E90/F30 vs. F80 at local track days to see how they do in the real world in terms of track times, heat resistance and durability.

F80 does sound great on paper, but same track at the same time is the only way we'll know for sure
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      01-14-2014, 09:44 PM   #25
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Get ready to hate...

I sold my e92 M3 to get an xDrive 335 F30 after having children (and requiring more winter safety) so all I need now to get an M3 again... is (OMG I AM GOING TO SAY IT) an X-drive M3.

Please BMW... make me an X-drive M3 !

Maybe LCI? I can dream ...
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      01-14-2014, 10:32 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by R0ut3r View Post
Get ready to hate...

I sold my e92 M3 to get an xDrive 335 F30 after having children (and requiring more winter safety) so all I need now to get an M3 again... is (OMG I AM GOING TO SAY IT) an X-drive M3.

Please BMW... make me an X-drive M3 !

Maybe LCI? I can dream ...

You're not crazy. There are exactly 3 of us that dream of this... A primary RWD M3 that you can enable xdrive at the driver's discretion... much like I could choose between RWD and AWD in my mid to late 2000s chevy SUVs.


The problem is that there are too few of us, and to ruin the RWD dynamics for the added weight is not worth it. For someone like me that must get to work regardless of weather I will have to deal with the fact that my BMW DD will always be an xdrive. An M3 would be my daily driver, so I really couldn't compromise those few times that getting to work would be dangerous or impossible (and let's not get into that whole AWD vs RWD snow tire bullshit, I need AWD and snows to ensure I get to and from work safely).


Ultimately if we want an AWD sports car we should get a porsche, GTR, or some audi RS model.

It won't be in an LCI, we'll be surprised if it is even offered on a 2017/8 M5
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      01-14-2014, 10:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVC
Good question... my original plan was to keep the F30 for the long haul, but I am feeling the pull from the M3. I am leaning toward making the switch, but not for at least a few more years. (Which leaves plenty of time to revisit the plan based on how good the new M3 turns out to be).
In the mean time, however, the likelihood of the switch definitely impacts the modding strategy for the F30; I will still upgrade a couple of hot spots to make the car more fun on the track for the next few years, but nothing too crazy/expensive.
Me too!

Or I'll buy a used M3 and track it and keep current 335i as DD.

I need a LSD on this f'er for HPDE though.....
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      01-14-2014, 10:57 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R0ut3r
Get ready to hate...

I sold my e92 M3 to get an xDrive 335 F30 after having children (and requiring more winter safety) so all I need now to get an M3 again... is (OMG I AM GOING TO SAY IT) an X-drive M3.

Please BMW... make me an X-drive M3 !

Maybe LCI? I can dream ...
AWD M3 is as crazy as a non-standard transmission option.

Won't happen.
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      01-15-2014, 09:05 AM   #29
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I think it will be well worth the extra money. Will i change out for an m3/4 probably not, but I really have my eye on a nice m sport x5.
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      01-15-2014, 09:07 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R0ut3r View Post
Get ready to hate...

I sold my e92 M3 to get an xDrive 335 F30 after having children (and requiring more winter safety) so all I need now to get an M3 again... is (OMG I AM GOING TO SAY IT) an X-drive M3.

Please BMW... make me an X-drive M3 !

Maybe LCI? I can dream ...
They say the next gen M's will be AWD until 100mph, that would most certainly be the best of both worlds, and surely welcomed by me too!
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      01-15-2014, 09:18 AM   #31
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I only wish the M3 was a mere 10K more, over here 20K is the difference between the 328 and 335 ... the M3 is just another 60K on top of that.

So if you want one, just buy one .. keep the dream alive LOL
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      01-15-2014, 09:36 AM   #32
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a 3 series/ 4 series is a regular car that competes against all the other regular cars you see on the road every day. An M3/M4 is an order of magnitude higher. It has very few competitors if any on the road. I never regretted spending the extra 20 grand for my M3 back in 2004, which still gives me a thrill to drive 10 years later. Since the new M is way more radical I would think it a good deal if it was 30 grand over the regular F30. Now way will it be only 10 grand more but if only 20 grand more then that is a great deal for a near-supercar that holds 4 adults.
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      01-15-2014, 12:13 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWbill View Post
a 3 series/ 4 series is a regular car that competes against all the other regular cars you see on the road every day. An M3/M4 is an order of magnitude higher. It has very few competitors if any on the road. I never regretted spending the extra 20 grand for my M3 back in 2004, which still gives me a thrill to drive 10 years later. Since the new M is way more radical I would think it a good deal if it was 30 grand over the regular F30. Now way will it be only 10 grand more but if only 20 grand more then that is a great deal for a near-supercar that holds 4 adults.
Did you see the comparison of the E46 M3 with the Ford Focus ST, IIRC the Ford Focus ST won
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      01-15-2014, 12:34 PM   #34
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I did not see this comparison but I can imagine that a Euro spec Focus ST which is a modern 30-40k sports hatch might perform well against an E46M3, just as it would blow away your 335i at the track. I've read plenty of similar comparisons over the years comparing an M3 against similar low end cars like WRX's. Indeed if all you care about is a 0-60 time and a skidpad score then an M3 will always lose to cheaper boy racers. But those cars will never win in any comparison where you include fit and finish, craftsmanship, handing on real roads, seating for 4 tall adults, etc...
By the way did you see the Motortrend comparison in 2004 of "the years best driver's car" and the E46 M3 beat all the Ferraris, Porsches, and a handful of other cars more than twice the price of the M3?
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      01-15-2014, 12:36 PM   #35
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I was curious to know if anyone was switching from the F30 to the 2 series. The pics from the detroit auto show look stunning.










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      01-15-2014, 12:57 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWbill View Post
I did not see this comparison but I can imagine that a Euro spec Focus ST which is a modern 30-40k sports hatch might perform well against an E46M3, just as it would blow away your 335i at the track. I've read plenty of similar comparisons over the years comparing an M3 against similar low end cars like WRX's. Indeed if all you care about is a 0-60 time and a skidpad score then an M3 will always lose to cheaper boy racers. But those cars will never win in any comparison where you include fit and finish, craftsmanship, handing on real roads, seating for 4 tall adults, etc...
By the way did you see the Motortrend comparison in 2004 of "the years best driver's car" and the E46 M3 beat all the Ferraris, Porsches, and a handful of other cars more than twice the price of the M3?
I don't think the E46M3 comparison was about 0-60, the comparison is here somewhere just lazy to pick it up.

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

Here are Mazda Laguna Seca times for the ST, with Randy at the steering wheel (arguably one of the best drivers at Mazda Laguna Seca) it did a 1:49, the 135i which was beaten by the F30 at VIR did a 1:46 (w/out Randy). I wouldn't say the ST is intimidating.

Unfortunately time catches up with everyone but the F80/82 are full of WIN
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      01-15-2014, 12:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ep_83 View Post
I was curious to know if anyone was switching from the F30 to the 2 series. The pics from the detroit auto show look stunning.










I will pass, I have already started a 300hp to 430hp fund Time needs to catch up with it (years)
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      01-15-2014, 01:01 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWbill View Post
I did not see this comparison but I can imagine that a Euro spec Focus ST which is a modern 30-40k sports hatch might perform well against an E46M3, just as it would blow away your 335i at the track. I've read plenty of similar comparisons over the years comparing an M3 against similar low end cars like WRX's. Indeed if all you care about is a 0-60 time and a skidpad score then an M3 will always lose to cheaper boy racers. But those cars will never win in any comparison where you include fit and finish, craftsmanship, handing on real roads, seating for 4 tall adults, etc...
By the way did you see the Motortrend comparison in 2004 of "the years best driver's car" and the E46 M3 beat all the Ferraris, Porsches, and a handful of other cars more than twice the price of the M3?
+1 It's all about the real road driving for me. And I kind of wish I kept my 2006 E46 M3 with 6MT as a weekend car. It was a fun ride.
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      01-15-2014, 02:52 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
Me too!

Or I'll buy a used M3 and track it and keep current 335i as DD.

I need a LSD on this f'er for HPDE though.....
Me three. I was actually thinking about this last night. I do have a used M3 for track use and wonder if I should sell both and get a new M3. First world problems..
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      01-15-2014, 02:54 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
Did you see the comparison of the E46 M3 with the Ford Focus ST, IIRC the Ford Focus ST won


E46M3 and a FWD 'hot hatch' are nice buys for a toy in the $20k range these days but I thought we were talking about switching F30 to F80 here
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      01-15-2014, 03:00 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post


E46M3 and a FWD 'hot hatch' are nice buys for a toy in the $20k range these days but I thought we were talking about switching F30 to F80 here
Spicing things
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      01-15-2014, 03:06 PM   #42
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Yes that is the topic. To me, I never cared for the 2 door 3 series cars except for the M3 which is now M4. A 2 door is a stylistic choice over practicality for people who like the sporty handsome look of a sports coupe, so why not get the ultimate version? Obviously, disposable income plays a huge roll, both in purchase price and then fuel cost over the life of the car.
In my case, I don't have to decide about trading up to an F80 because I need my F31 wagon as a practical family car. If they made an F81 M wagon I'd be going crazy though!
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      01-15-2014, 03:30 PM   #43
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Yes! I'm going back to an ///M car. The 335i was only a filler car for me.
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      01-15-2014, 03:32 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAMidge View Post
You're not crazy. There are exactly 3 of us that dream of this... A primary RWD M3 that you can enable xdrive at the driver's discretion... much like I could choose between RWD and AWD in my mid to late 2000s chevy SUVs.


The problem is that there are too few of us, and to ruin the RWD dynamics for the added weight is not worth it. For someone like me that must get to work regardless of weather I will have to deal with the fact that my BMW DD will always be an xdrive. An M3 would be my daily driver, so I really couldn't compromise those few times that getting to work would be dangerous or impossible (and let's not get into that whole AWD vs RWD snow tire bullshit, I need AWD and snows to ensure I get to and from work safely).


Ultimately if we want an AWD sports car we should get a porsche, GTR, or some audi RS model.

It won't be in an LCI, we'll be surprised if it is even offered on a 2017/8 M5
An X-Drive M3/M5/M6 is coming.
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