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      01-15-2014, 03:39 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roki_014 View Post
I was speaking to my sales guy when i was at the dealership last time and he said most of the m drivers get the m3 for the name he said thats is an over priced 3 series not worth the extra 10 k over non m car
Your sales guy is/was an idiot, and his argument can be extrapolated infinitely. Example: A 328/335 is more car than anybody needs to drive to and from work, and isn't worth the premium to get from point A to point B over, sayyyy, a Ford Focus or base model Honda Civic. Cars, especially to motorheads, are 110% emotional purchases. It can be argued that people buy ANY luxury brand simply for the prestige (..or perceived prestige) that owning said vehicle encompasses.

We can take it a step further. Do we really need $100 jeans? $150 shoes? $1600 watches? etc. etc. etc.
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      01-15-2014, 03:47 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by BMWbill View Post
Yes that is the topic. To me, I never cared for the 2 door 3 series cars except for the M3 which is now M4. A 2 door is a stylistic choice over practicality for people who like the sporty handsome look of a sports coupe, so why not get the ultimate version? Obviously, disposable income plays a huge roll, both in purchase price and then fuel cost over the life of the car.
In my case, I don't have to decide about trading up to an F80 because I need my F31 wagon as a practical family car. If they made an F81 M wagon I'd be going crazy though!
Yes, I lusted after the M5 wagon.
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      01-15-2014, 03:51 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roki_014 View Post
I was speaking to my sales guy when i was at the dealership last time and he said most of the m drivers get the m3 for the name he said thats is an over priced 3 series not worth the extra 10 k over non m car
10k? I think it's worth 20k over a non M car. Case in point, my 4 came to $55k. 3 years from now when my lease is up, barring an economic crash, I'll pay $75k for an M4 without blinking an eye.
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      01-15-2014, 06:41 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by diablo2112 View Post
No doubt, everything about the 425hp I6 is superior to the old V8.
...except throttle response, noise, torque profile, revlimit, repairs and reliability, temperatures.. etc. Torque numbers and fuel consumption aren't everything.
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      01-15-2014, 06:42 PM   #49
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      01-15-2014, 06:48 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
...except throttle response, noise, torque profile, revlimit, repairs and reliability, temperatures.. etc. Torque numbers and fuel consumption aren't everything.

In the order that you listed.....

  • You don't know that!
  • Subjective, but the S65 has the vote (..at least until we get the F8X in the flesh).
  • Ummm, the S65 loses that battle significantly.
  • Who cares? It's an 800-ish RPM difference. Even the S54 only revved to 8000 RPM's. 8300 RPM's notwithstanding, the E9X will still see F8X tail lights, so rev it all you like. Some of you guys remind me of the Honda fan boys of old.
  • An unknown quantity, so how can you be so sure?
  • Again, and unknown quantity.

..and I quote you as saying, "torque numbers and fuel consumption aren't everything". Well neither are rev limits and mechanical/exhaust noises.

Last edited by Sedan_Clan; 01-15-2014 at 07:05 PM..
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      01-15-2014, 07:08 PM   #51
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I was thinking of picking one up in about 2 years (half way through my current lease) but I'm not sure if I'll still be in love with the styling. I get bored of cars rather quick, and think in a couple of years I'll find the f30 boring, and to jump into an m3 which taking away the aggressive styling, very much resembles the f30.

Having said all that I'm not sure what I'll do. There will definitely emerge some new players in the next couple of years. The Toyota FT-1 concept looks fantastic. We'll see how it goes.
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      01-15-2014, 07:23 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
An X-Drive M3/M5/M6 is coming.
Of course it is, thank you for your entirely legitimate post, with all of the supporting evidence!

While we're on the topic of the future, will cars start flying in 2015 as suggested in back to the future? And will the weather forecasts be spot on?


I hope you're right, but you're wrong until proven otherwise.
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      01-15-2014, 07:26 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAMidge View Post
Of course it is, thank you for your entirely legitimate post, with all of the supporting evidence!

While we're on the topic of the future, will cars start flying in 2015 as suggested in back to the future? And will the weather forecasts be spot on?


I hope you're right, but you're wrong until proven otherwise.
It looks like you need to spend some time on the F8X ///M boards. That came straight from BMW M, not ME, and was confirmed by SCOTT26 that X-Drive is coming (...and we ALL know that Scott is our BMW insider and has never been wrong). Insert your foot in your mouth now.

Last edited by Sedan_Clan; 01-15-2014 at 07:32 PM..
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      01-15-2014, 07:32 PM   #54
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Damn Sedan is crushing yall right now LOL...No 2 ways about it, nothing can compare to M cars!

Is it worth the money...Hell Yes! To turn a 335 into an m3ish car costs at least 10 grand, and guess what, You still dont drive an M3!
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      01-15-2014, 07:32 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
An X-Drive M3/M5/M6 is coming.
xDrive M3 is not likely anytime soon... this is from a recent interview with Friedrich Nitschke, the President of M GmbH:
Quote:
While he admits to working up medium-term plans for all-wheel drive M5 and M6 models, Dr. Nitschke insists the M3 and M4 will never turn to all-wheel drive.

“The M5 and M6, maybe in the next generation they could get AWD, but not with the M3 or M4. Never.”
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      01-15-2014, 07:34 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
It looks like you need to spend some time on the F8X ///M boards. That came straight from BMW M, not ME. Insert your foot in your mouth now.

I'll put my foot in my mouth around 2018-2020. The statement didn't specify an M3 x drive. There are already confirmations on the considerations of xdrive on the M5/6, but never anything for an M3/4.

It will likely be the first transition to ///M performance autos like an ///M 235xi, then maybe M5.

I don't think it's going to happen.
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      01-15-2014, 07:35 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVC View Post
xDrive M3 is not likely anytime soon... this is from a recent interview with Friedrich Nitschke, the President of M GmbH:
I didn't say soon, I just said that it will be. Keep in mind, these are the same people that swore that a BMW ///M SAV would never exist and that BMW ///M cars would be naturally aspirated forever. We all see how both of those most candid declarations panned out.

Last edited by Sedan_Clan; 01-15-2014 at 07:43 PM..
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      01-15-2014, 07:52 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I didn't say soon, I just said that it will be. Keep in mind, these are the same people that swore that a BMW ///M SAV would never exist and that BMW ///M cars would be naturally aspirated forever. We all see how both of those most candid declarations panned out.
Yeah, I agree that it could happen eventually...even though he says "never", I still said not "anytime soon"...
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      01-15-2014, 07:56 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by DVC View Post
Yeah, I agree that it could happen eventually...even though he says "never", I still said not "anytime soon"...
Im pretty sure its here next generation.
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      01-15-2014, 08:17 PM   #60
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Does anyone else find it funny that people are actually asking for xdrive on any of the M cars. Just so we are clear I am not referring to anyone above with xdrive in one or more of their posts. I am referring to the Q&A section about the M3/4 on the front page. What happened? I thought xdrive was despised when it came to the F30 and to hear xdrive (pro xdrive) and F80/2 mentioned in the same post seems weird to me.

If I ever get an M3 I will not get xdrive if it were ever offered only because in my view M has always been about rwd. However if Porsche and Ferrari offer awd then I guess times have changed and I always embrace change.
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      01-15-2014, 08:40 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I guess times have changed
In some ways they haven't changed because "motorsport" is about being the fastest and at high power levels and/or in the wet it is fastest to have AWD to put the power down (i.e. latest E63)

and of course the other thing M stands for is "marketing", and AWD sells way more in the US northeast
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      01-15-2014, 09:01 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I guess times have changed
In some ways they haven't changed because "motorsport" is about being the fastest and at high power levels and/or in the wet it is fastest to have AWD to put the power down (i.e. latest E63)

and of course the other thing M stands for is "marketing", and AWD sells way more in the US northeast
But Porsche, GM (Corvette), Toyota (LF-A) are doing very well with rwd, even the ring times testify to this. If M goes awd, to me that just seems bad. I am no rwd proponent by any means but the world needs people who stand by their principles no matter the circumstances. Here we have the MT guys who will never buy an AT (save the manuals), surely M can stick to their theme which we all know to be rwd.

Here is a perfect example of why 0-60 means nothing in the real world



Save rwd in M, leave the awd to Audi in the RS models
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      01-15-2014, 10:18 PM   #63
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      01-15-2014, 10:45 PM   #64
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Maybe in 5-10 years when I have more spare change.
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      01-15-2014, 11:42 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
In the order that you listed.....

  • You don't know that!
  • Subjective, but the S65 has the vote (..at least until we get the F8X in the flesh).
  • Ummm, the S65 loses that battle significantly.
  • Who cares? It's an 800-ish RPM difference. Even the S54 only revved to 8000 RPM's. 8300 RPM's notwithstanding, the E9X will still see F8X tail lights, so rev it all you like. Some of you guys remind me of the Honda fan boys of old.
  • An unknown quantity, so how can you be so sure?
  • Again, and unknown quantity.

..and I quote you as saying, "torque numbers and fuel consumption aren't everything". Well neither are rev limits and mechanical/exhaust noises.
The quote was that the I6 is better "in every way". And that's not true. And 800rpm makes a pretty big difference on straights. And what are you talking about that I don't know the throttle response is better on the S65. Are you serious? Do you understand the concept of a turbocharged engine? Versus EIGHT ITB with no additional plumbing between the intake and the manifold? As for torque numbers, I don't mean peak, I mean delivery (when and how). No big dropoff at high rpms, good for track days. And as for servicing, you've clearly never worked on an N55 vs say any NA BMW engine. Trust me, they are VERY complicated with many expensive components.

It's delusional to think the S55 is anything more than a tuned, tweaked, cooled N55. I like what it is--great for the street. That's about it. And wouldn't want to own one outside of warranty. For track days I'll take a reliable NA BMW M motor.
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      01-16-2014, 02:30 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
The quote was that the I6 is better "in every way". And that's not true. And 800rpm makes a pretty big difference on straights. And what are you talking about that I don't know the throttle response is better on the S65. Are you serious? Do you understand the concept of a turbocharged engine? Versus EIGHT ITB with no additional plumbing between the intake and the manifold? As for torque numbers, I don't mean peak, I mean delivery (when and how). No big dropoff at high rpms, good for track days. And as for servicing, you've clearly never worked on an N55 vs say any NA BMW engine. Trust me, they are VERY complicated with many expensive components.

It's delusional to think the S55 is anything more than a tuned, tweaked, cooled N55. I like what it is--great for the street. That's about it. And wouldn't want to own one outside of warranty. For track days I'll take a reliable NA BMW M motor.

I'm not going to dignify your post with a lengthy response. I'm not an idiot! Most of what you're staying is STILL conjecture until we have quantitative data on the car. Furthermore, Valvetronic and HPI make individual throttle bodies redundant. Sure you can still use ITB's, but there is no reason to add complexity if it does not benefit performance and responsiveness.

Carry on!
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