[SamS]

Originally Posted by ft1338

Your message got me thinking... How does the AH3 compare to the 335i price-wise after any gov. incentives? From what you're saying it's almost as if they were on par... Which bring another question -> for the same price, AH3 or 335i???

There is no rebate or government incentives/tax credits on hybrids. However, BMW has a $3500 Eco Credit, which brings the delta between the base price of a 335i and AH3 to $3000, "officially". If you consider that dealer allocations of 335i (especially Munich-produced) are still in short supply, most dealers won't be very aggressive with 335i discounts. The AH3 on the other hand, is not very popular, and easy to get a discount on. With moderate negotiating skills, your best price on an AH3 should be only $1000-2000 more than a 335i.

If you consider that for MY2013, the AH3 gets the "new" Nav, and at least 20% better city mpg than a 335i, then you can decide if that ~$1000 is worth the premium over the standard 335i. For me, it was.

[J Tiberius]

Originally Posted by SamS

Yesterday I took my AH3 into service to clear an emissions code. They gave me a baseline 328i F30 as a loaner. What a terrible car this was. Not at all a "sports sedan". Felt about as sporty as my 2006 Accord, no exaggeration.

I have driven a 328i several times in the past, but this was my first time having one for the entire day, especially after I've lived with the AH3 for a month.

Here are the biggest faults with the F30 328i, IMO:

• Terrible engine idle noise. The solution is to turn up the radio?
• Terrible steering feel, even in sport mode. The solution is to order DHP?
• Terrible road holding/grip. The solution is to order DHP?
• The A.S.S. start up is just plain abrasive and annoying. Solution is to turn it off, but you are of course wasting gas. If they could ever implement the AH3 start/stop system in the regular F30s, people would be dancing in the streets.

I was impressed with the mpg on the 328i. I bet it could even better the AH3, if you drive carefully and use A.S.S. all the time.

But overall, the only way I would buy/order a 328i is loaded up, just like my AH3. And that brings it to an MSRP of $55,945 when spec'd identically to my AH3. My car was $65K sticker, and still has a $3500 Eco credit. So the delta (before negotiations/rebates/credits) is $5530.

So what are you getting for that $5500?

• 75lb-ft more torque - which is the most apparent difference in real-world driving
• 95HP more - probably noticeable at higher speeds
• New NBT Navigation - for now
• About the same mpg
• ~500lbs more vehicle weight. Personally I don't mind this. Makes the AH3 feel more planted and stable on the road. You can definitely feel the difference, but the 328i just feels more light and floaty, where the AH3 just feels stuck to the ground, and more comfortable to drive at all speeds.
• Smoother stop/start. This applies to 335i as well, but even more so to the AH3.
• Better sounding exhaust/intake noise. This cannot be debated

In short, if I was really trying to save on the vehicle price, I could probably live with a 328i that was fully optioned. I wouldn't enjoy it as much as my AH3, but it would be livable. But a base 328i... whew, not for me!

I would say the same about a base 335i also in terms of steering feel and grip. That is not inherent to the 328i. As for idle sound, I can barely hear my engine at idle and it sounds quite nice at WOT.

I genuinely do not understand why some folks think there is a stratospheric difference in "sport sedan" qualities between identically equipped 328s and 335s.

They are the same car with a different engine. With the F30, so many people claim to be purists for wanting an I6, but the N52 was constantly lambasted in the E9X generation as an underpowered peasant sled. Is there any point to this nonsense other than spreading misinformation? I had an F30 335i base line loaner and it was a floaty abomination to drive, after which I couldn't wait to get back into my own car.

335s are not distilled from unicorn marrow, leprichaun tears, or imbued with any other mythical specialness. Let's all please end the nonsense and stop comparing whatever model you drive with a base loaner from the dealership and calling it empirical evidence.

[OC40]

Originally Posted by J Tiberius

I would say the same about a base 335i also in terms of steering feel and grip. That is not inherent to the 328i. As for idle sound, I can barely hear my engine at idle and it sounds quite nice at WOT.

I genuinely do not understand why some folks think there is a stratospheric difference in "sport sedan" qualities between identically equipped 328s and 335s.

They are the same car with a different engine. With the F30, so many people claim to be purists for wanting an I6, but the N52 was constantly lambasted in the E9X generation as an underpowered peasant sled. Is there any point to this nonsense other than spreading misinformation? I had an F30 335i base line loaner and it was a floaty abomination to drive, after which I couldn't wait to get back into my own car.

335s are not distilled from unicorn marrow, leprichaun tears, or imbued with any other mythical specialness. Let's all please end the nonsense and stop comparing whatever model you drive with a base loaner from the dealership and calling it empirical evidence.

My 335 MSport beats a 328 MSport 60% of the time. But it beats whatever you drive 100% of the time...as proven by the empirical evidence.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by J Tiberius

I would say the same about a base 335i also in terms of steering feel and grip. That is not inherent to the 328i. As for idle sound, I can barely hear my engine at idle and it sounds quite nice at WOT.

I genuinely do not understand why some folks think there is a stratospheric difference in "sport sedan" qualities between identically equipped 328s and 335s.

Then maybe DHP is the secret sauce to give the F30 the "sports sedan" feel? Or at minimum, Sport Suspension.

Originally Posted by J Tiberius

They are the same car with a different engine. With the F30, so many people claim to be purists for wanting an I6, but the N52 was constantly lambasted in the E9X generation as an underpowered peasant sled. Is there any point to this nonsense other than spreading misinformation? I had an F30 335i base line loaner and it was a floaty abomination to drive, after which I couldn't wait to get back into my own car.

I'm not a purist who needs an I6. In fact, I think the N52 is a dog. I'd take the N20, any day. And would probably really like it a lot if they could get rid of the clickety clack induction noise

Originally Posted by J Tiberius

Let's all please end the nonsense and stop comparing whatever model you drive with a base loaner from the dealership and calling it empirical evidence.

It is indeed empirical evidence, and likely rational evidence, especially because most F30s will drive the same way as the base loaner because they are equipped the same. Bad steering, floaty, bad steering wheel, etc. I think it is more common for 335i cars to at least have Sport Suspension.

[J Tiberius]

Originally Posted by SamS

Then maybe DHP is the secret sauce to give the F30 the "sports sedan" feel? Or at minimum, Sport Suspension.



I'm not a purist who needs an I6. In fact, I think the N52 is a dog. I'd take the N20, any day. And would probably really like it a lot if they could get rid of the clickety clack induction noise




It is indeed empirical evidence, and likely rational evidence, especially because most F30s will drive the same way as the base loaner because they are equipped the same. Bad steering, floaty, bad steering wheel, etc. I think it is more common for 335i cars to at least have Sport Suspension.

That might be so simply because there are fewer 335s sold overall by comparison. Mine has sport suspension and I have made some minor modifications to get it where I want. To be honest, I was an early F30 adopter who was not pleased with the sport suspension straight out of the factory, coming from an identically equipped E90 sport. The N20 has been a real treat though compared to the N52 - as I absolutely agree with you that it was a dog.

[J Tiberius]

Originally Posted by OC40

My 335 MSport beats a 328 MSport 60% of the time. But it beats whatever you drive 100% of the time...as proven by the empirical evidence.

That's a pretty big logic leap, but whatever makes you feel good.

[OC40]

Originally Posted by J Tiberius

That's a pretty big logic leap, but whatever makes you feel good.

It was merely a point. It's a forum and people will have an opinion regardless of evidence, etc.

[J Tiberius]

Originally Posted by OC40

It was merely a point. It's a forum and people will have an opinion regardless of evidence, etc.

I understand - good point. Apologize if I came off rude with my earlier response

[OC40]

Originally Posted by J Tiberius

I understand - good point. Apologize if I came off rude with my earlier response

No worries at all. I second that!

[gnosis8]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

Style 397 I believe (for base).

Base 335i gets the exclusive 396 wheels. Llllllove 'em

[M3takesNYC]

After driving a new 328 for the first time for a few days I find it mind boggling that anyone would not pay the 6k more for a 335. The 328 was so slow and boring compared to a 335 that 6k for the N55 engine is an absolute bargain. I had much higher expectations from everything I read but the lag is terrible and the pulling of the car is just slow. A bit better than the outgoing I6 but the lag with the N20 motor is just awful.

[Roki_014]

Originally Posted by M3takesNYC

After driving a new 328 for the first time for a few days I find it mind boggling that anyone would not pay the 6k more for a 335. The 328 was so slow and boring compared to a 335 that 6k for the N55 engine is an absolute bargain. I had much higher expectations from everything I read but the lag is terrible and the pulling of the car is just slow. A bit better than the outgoing I6 but the lag with the N20 motor is just awful.

You forgot to mention that it sounds like a diesel, i had x3 28 for a loaner and the ticking sound was terrible everyone asked me if its a diesel

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by M3takesNYC

After driving a new 328 for the first time for a few days I find it mind boggling that anyone would not pay the 6k more for a 335. The 328 was so slow and boring compared to a 335 that 6k for the N55 engine is an absolute bargain. I had much higher expectations from everything I read but the lag is terrible and the pulling of the car is just slow. A bit better than the outgoing I6 but the lag with the N20 motor is just awful.

Did you accidentally switch it to EcoPro? Just kidding, but your review is not consistent with any professional review and obviously not reflected by 95% of buyers. Typically the only negative reviews of the engine are from the 5 people who bought the 335i instead. Maybe it was the car or maybe your expectations were too high? what line did you drive, were you in sport mode or the default comfort mode? was the 335i that you are comparing it to the same. There seems to be more noticeable difference in the F30 than the E90 between the lines and options you choose on the car. I've driven identical 328i and 335i sport lines back to back, and although there was a a difference in torque and sound, it wasnt something I notice during everyday driving. Dogging it yes, there is no mistaking the 4 cyl for the I6, although my new M Performance exhaust does help.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by gnosis8

Base 335i gets the exclusive 396 wheels. Llllllove 'em

yeah those are the ones on mine...I love them to! I think they're highly underappreciated...I've relegated them for snow tire duty, lol!

[bmwluvr24]

Originally Posted by J Tiberius

I would say the same about a base 335i also in terms of steering feel and grip. That is not inherent to the 328i. As for idle sound, I can barely hear my engine at idle and it sounds quite nice at WOT.

I genuinely do not understand why some folks think there is a stratospheric difference in "sport sedan" qualities between identically equipped 328s and 335s.

They are the same car with a different engine. With the F30, so many people claim to be purists for wanting an I6, but the N52 was constantly lambasted in the E9X generation as an underpowered peasant sled. Is there any point to this nonsense other than spreading misinformation? I had an F30 335i base line loaner and it was a floaty abomination to drive, after which I couldn't wait to get back into my own car.

335s are not distilled from unicorn marrow, leprichaun tears, or imbued with any other mythical specialness. Let's all please end the nonsense and stop comparing whatever model you drive with a base loaner from the dealership and calling it empirical evidence.

Agreed! I chose with the thought in mind of economy in gas mileage and not being able to really get myself into too much trouble with speed. That being said, I see now that I have also avoided treading on the grounds of the rightful heirs to the BMW throne by not purchasing a 335i. Looks like I knocked out two, shit even three, birds with one stone! All jokes aside.......the 335i is AMAZING, but getting upset at someone for not sharing the same opinion is foolish at best. I know when I take my car into the dealer and they give me a loaner, I can not wait to get back into my car. The baseline no model is not my idea of fun. It is somewhat comfortable and it does ride "softly", but it is still not a piece of garbage. However.......opinions vary.

[F30buyer?]

Originally Posted by SamS

[*]~500lbs more vehicle weight. Personally I don't mind this. Makes the AH3 feel more planted and stable on the road. You can definitely feel the difference, but the 328i just feels more light and floaty, where the AH3 just feels stuck to the ground, and more comfortable to drive at all speeds.e!

You could go to a sporting goods store and buy 500 pounds of weights and strategically position them around the car. If you like the 500 pounds more weight you already have, think how much you'd like another 500 pounds.

[GB72]

Originally Posted by yellowllewellyn

What do you get standard with the 335i that isn't on the 328i?

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=806389

[M3takesNYC]

I was driving in sport mode which made it better I admit. At first I had never been in an F30 so was not even aware of those modes until well into day 1 and than realized. I purposesly did not comment on handling as I had a loaner which clearly did not have the sport packages, was not a sport line etc so I did not even bother trying to compare handling, especially given I drive an m3 and it would not be relevent to start comparing it to a F30 328 non-sport handling wise.

I have driven many 335i e90's though and I am sorry but if you don't notice the day to day pulling power of a 335 over this 328 than you are not driving it hard enough. Of course if you feather the gas on any modern car you don't really feel a lot of difference. However start to push it to have fun and the 328 just did not move. I realize its all relative to what your used to but nonetheless even when I jump in a 335 from my modded m3, I still really feel the punch of low end torque pushing you back and it still feels fast. Not so in the 328.

Again if the price difference was 15k I would understand. However for 5-6k in a car that large majority finance or lease means a difference of maybe 100 bucks a month which is peanuts to someone driving a bimmer and is a bargain cost of entry to have so much more enjoyment day to day.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by M3takesNYC

I was driving in sport mode which made it better I admit. At first I had never been in an F30 so was not even aware of those modes until well into day 1 and than realized. I purposesly did not comment on handling as I had a loaner which clearly did not have the sport packages, was not a sport line etc so I did not even bother trying to compare handling, especially given I drive an m3 and it would not be relevent to start comparing it to a F30 328 non-sport handling wise.

I have driven many 335i e90's though and I am sorry but if you don't notice the day to day pulling power of a 335 over this 328 than you are not driving it hard enough. Of course if you feather the gas on any modern car you don't really feel a lot of difference. However start to push it to have fun and the 328 just did not move. I realize its all relative to what your used to but nonetheless even when I jump in a 335 from my modded m3, I still really feel the punch of low end torque pushing you back and it still feels fast. Not so in the 328.

Again if the price difference was 15k I would understand. However for 5-6k in a car that large majority finance or lease means a difference of maybe 100 bucks a month which is peanuts to someone driving a bimmer and is a bargain cost of entry to have so much more enjoyment day to day.

You spent a day driving it in comfort not knowing about the different modes, lol.



It drives like a Prius when not in the proper driving mode.

The E60 M5 had the M button for 500hp, and the standard for 400hp. It's not a new concept for a BMW to have driving modes.

You spent a day hating the car before realizing it's a turd in terms of responsiveness in the wrong mode.

Some people are pissed such a select-able mode exists and the car only drives like a BMW in Sport or Sport+(your base car does not have Sport+).

I personally like the choice. I spend 80% of my time in Sport, the rest is split between Sport+ and Comfort only when it's snowing.

If you felt the large difference(its there, how large is the question) between the 328 and 335, then please go grab a E90 328 and see your perceptive change yet again.

For as long as I have been driving 3's, there is a base engine, and a higher spec. The fact that the 335 is even in the same league as the base engine now, that says a lot. Before, I would have not even considered a 328 for my DD, only for my wife who came away saying she missed the torque of her last turbo cars.

[Jparker82]

I spent the week driving the 328 and the 335. I own a 2011 328 and its a super nice car. But after I drove the 2013 328 m sport and the 335 m sport back to back there was not even a consideration. Just the sound of the 6 made up my mind. I ended up buying the AH3 with an M pack. Deal was so good I could not pass on it.

Has anyone put a juice box on there AH3? Pump the HP up to 440ish. Now that's gonna be amazing.... It's like a 4 dr M3. I have owned a lot of BMWs and I am excited about getting this one next week.

[PK2348]

Originally Posted by SamS

Yesterday I took my AH3 into service to clear an emissions code. They gave me a baseline 328i F30 as a loaner. What a terrible car this was. Not at all a "sports sedan". Felt about as sporty as my 2006 Accord, no exaggeration.

I have driven a 328i several times in the past, but this was my first time having one for the entire day, especially after I've lived with the AH3 for a month.

Here are the biggest faults with the F30 328i, IMO:

• Terrible engine idle noise. The solution is to turn up the radio?
• Terrible steering feel, even in sport mode. The solution is to order DHP?
• Terrible road holding/grip. The solution is to order DHP?
• The A.S.S. start up is just plain abrasive and annoying. Solution is to turn it off, but you are of course wasting gas. If they could ever implement the AH3 start/stop system in the regular F30s, people would be dancing in the streets.

Agree

[pallymore]

get the 335 if you can afford it.
You may or may not regret getting 328. But you will sure regret not getting 335 :/
And you save yourself from asking yourself "what if I bought a 335..." each time you see a 335, think about 335, or read the number 335.


I was thinking about getting AH3...but I need/want xDrive.
I got stuck in the snow a lot of times in my mustang You don't want to be me in those situations.