[pferdestarke]

A friend's E92 335d has been in to a dealership recently for a turbo-related failure (not the turbo specifically but a related mechanical part)

He got a call from the dealership where it's being repaired stating that the car has been re-mapped and it shows on their diagnostic machine. He wasn't made aware of this by the dealership at the time of purchase and has insured the vehicle as a standard car. It absolutely wasn't re-mapped by him.

He purchased it last November at 49k miles and has added another 16k in that time. It was an Approved Used from a recognised franchise and is covered with a full 12 month warranty as you'd expect.

How would you suggest is the best way to deal with such a situation?

[Nick the Greek]

Revert to the dealer it was purchased from and take it up with them..
A salutory lesson for those that trust their cars to back street "tuners"....

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

Revert to the dealer it was purchased from and take it up with them..
A salutory lesson for those that trust their cars to back street "tuners"....

What's that lesson then? Have they said the failure was related to the remap?

The only lesson I am seeing here is that Approved Used cars are not that well checked!

[Nick the Greek]

You can tune a car properly Tengocity.
Or you can tune a car cheaply.
Not both.

Fiddling with the ECU/piggybacking it and so on is the cheap way....

[badders74]

It is very difficult to check every car that comes in for tuning related components.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

You can tune a car properly Tengocity.
Or you can tune a car cheaply.
Not both.

Fiddling with the ECU/piggybacking it and so on is the cheap way....

So you keep saying. So why exactly are you not a fan of remapping/tuning?

As many engines without remaps have issues as engines with them. My own personal experience has been very good though. I had a 2004 330d remapped at 90k miles and sold it at 158k miles without an issue. It is now owned by a work colleague of my dads who has now taken it close to 200k miles, again with no problems. He has replaced the turbo as a precautionary measure, but that's sensible in any of these cars and a no brainer if you're already a BMW tech, as he is!

[M4dski11z]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

You can tune a car properly Tengocity.
Or you can tune a car cheaply.
Not both.

Fiddling with the ECU/piggybacking it and so on is the cheap way....

Hmmm not really... In fact it's the only way to ensure all modified engine components are running as best as they can be.
Take an rx7 for example. Put an exhaust on one of those without a remap and the engine will pop. You make it sound like a tuning box or remap is some kind of cheap hack that side of the road tuners only use...

[Nick the Greek]

Compare what Alpina do to an N55 to deliver 404bhp.

Then look at your local back street flash and dash merchant......

If you want to do a job, do it properly....

N55 Alpina

-

Two turbos instead of one

Forged steel crankshaft

New ECU

New wiring loom

Different spark plugs

Bigger intercooler

High performance fuel pump

A job done properly.......

[Tengocity]

So back the original thread, of which the interesting point was that a dealer did not check whether a car they were selling had been remapped.

Did they say how they knew... it could be that you can see the physical evidence on the ECU itself (E9x facelift cars needed the ECU itself to be physically tampered with), or through a log or fault code on the ECU itself?

A question I was wondering was whether in detecting the remap whether there is anyway for them to check the date it was installed? It is going to be the only way to prove for sure that it was done prior to the car being bought.

[Lorcan]

When you say "from a recognised franchise" do you mean a BMW dealer?

[M4dski11z]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

Compare what Alpina do to an N55 to deliver 404bhp.

Then look at your local back street flash and dash merchant......

If you want to do a job, do it properly....

N55 Alpina

-

Two turbos instead of one

Forged steel crankshaft

New ECU

New wiring loom

Different spark plugs

Bigger intercooler

High performance fuel pump

A job done properly.......

Yup... That's quite heavily modified. Will still need a remap though, or as you put it... "New ecu"

Whether it's alpina, or burger... Same applies

Anyway... Back on track, as Lorcan says, was it a BMW dealer that didn't notice? If so, that shows that they can easily slip under the radar. Even more tempting to slap a tuning box on

[davyk31]

I would imagine there are plenty of mapped AUC vehicles sold, can't see the dealers ever checking for this unless in a situation such as this where there is a warranty claim.

The owner will need to find a way to prove when the map was installed to show he is the innocent party.

[johno]

Originally Posted by davyk31

I would imagine there are plenty of mapped AUC vehicles sold, can't see the dealers ever checking for this unless in a situation such as this where there is a warranty claim.

The owner will need to find a way to prove when the map was installed to show he is the innocent party.

Conversely, shouldn't the selling dealer need to prove that it wasn't there when they sold it? Sale of Goods Act and all that - if they sold him a car with a warranty which was already invalidated then they are liable.

The other point made by the OP, that potentially he has been driving without valid insurance, is a more tricky one, but I think the dealer should also be liable for that.

[Ross_T_Boss]

I'd be simply telling them that it was supplied approved used by BMW, no change on my side so of course it will be fully covered? Of course he's not liable for anything, but the issue will be in the proof.

As for them being liable for potential uninsured driving - well I'd just forget that, he's not lost anything so what's to be liable for. I would of course expect them to get the ECU back to standard, as it should have been when purchased.

In this situation you have to keep the pressure on them, escalate to BMW UK if necessary, keep the burden of proof on them and hope they feel the pressure and just sort it out.

It would be worth some research just in case - what is modified and how did they find it -at least with an older ECU you wouldn't have any time-stamp on any fettling but often a tuning co would place a branded sticker on or in the ECU and a line in the code branding it as theirs. If you could track it down the company should verify any work done against the reg no and importantly when. Of course if it's something back-alley style probably not...

[TouringPleb]

When I worked for a BMW dealership we sold an AUC that turned out to be a cut and shut...

Needless to say when it was discovered the customer got a huge discount off a new car and the tech who did the AUC got a final warning... Ooops!

[....,,,,..,,..]

It's always happened, dealers 'miss' issue with trade in cars.

Before we had all finance checks cars were sold with outstanding fiancé or even previously stolen.

In this case the buyer is insured, he bought it as seen and warrantee (guarantee) from dealer, when you insure it, they ask has it, have you, etc, so if you don't know then you ain't lied.

I've known people with am 1.8 engine as opposed to the 2.0 litre engine it should have had.

What will be more interesting is if BMW dealers add a mandatory check for any non approved engine upgrades and then refuse or offer much lower price for car or even null and void warranty against that vin.

Would be interesting come trade in time for some people, not that it will happen of course ....