[motorwerkeman]

Well, 2 months out of warranty my 2012 328i developed an unusual engine noise on the way to work this morning. At 4000rpm and above, there is a what I can best describe as a knocking or ticking noise that is definitely new. Also makes the noise when cornering which is concerning (but much less pronounced).

The car is a 2012 build, 35,040km serviced at BMW with the exception of 1 oil change using LL01 approved Castrol EDGE and an OEM filter. I always use 91 or 94 octane fuel.

No codes or low oil warnings, but drove at low rpm to the nearest dealer and dropped it off. Will update with more information once I receive a diagnosis.

Anyone have a similar issue? No abnormal sounds are observed at idle like can be heard with some of the stretched timing chain cases.

[D041987]

Best to post a video, as trying to describe an odd sound gives no real grasp on what you are talking about. Engines make bunch of noises, so do CV axles, exhaust leaks cause rattles and strange noises, Clutch, flywheels. etc. List is endless.

[BryanEX]

w/o a video or a code it's hard to tell, but over all the N20/N26 engine is hard on spark plugs, so they may need to be replaced soon. If you look at the manual they recomend every 30k miles. If you rag on your car it could be ealier though. I do alot of highway miles and was able to get 60k miles out of mine.

[motorwerkeman]

The verdict is in:

They think it's a stretched timing chain and want $902.00 for a complete diagnosis on top of the $154.00 inspection charge.

They also said it could be 'worn cam lobes' but with 35,000km seems impossible.

Very disappointing. I asked if any TSB existing regarding the timing chain at my last service, my concerns were brushed off with no real answers.

Calling around to independent shops to see what replacing with the newer parts is worth. Should I take BMW up on the full diagnosis to know the extent? I do have CAA so flatbed tow to an independent shop is definitely an option.

[D041987]

Hmm, does your engine whine when you give it gas? Also $1k for an inspection is bs. They are taking your money. I would go back and tell them you want this fixed for free as this is a known issue for this engine if it is a Stretching chain or a oil pump going bad. These have been the 2 main issues with these cars on early production years and they offer a new timing chain guide and chain to correct this and there is a TSB for it. I would advise they fix for free due to a manufacturing issue that is not caused by you but buy BMW and they should own up to replacing it. There may be lots of going back and forth on this but hopefully they will fix for free or cover most of the expense if this is a timing chain or oil pump issue. If your SA doesn't go anything for you ask to speak to the Service Manager and ask for replacement under "Good Faith" for such a low mileage car that is just outside of warranty.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by motorwerkeman

Well, 2 months out of warranty my 2012 328i developed an unusual engine noise on the way to work this morning. At 4000rpm and above, there is a what I can best describe as a knocking or ticking noise that is definitely new. Also makes the noise when cornering which is concerning (but much less pronounced).

The car is a 2012 build, 35,040km serviced at BMW with the exception of 1 oil change using LL01 approved Castrol EDGE and an OEM filter. I always use 91 or 94 octane fuel.

No codes or low oil warnings, but drove at low rpm to the nearest dealer and dropped it off. Will update with more information once I receive a diagnosis.

Anyone have a similar issue? No abnormal sounds are observed at idle like can be heard with some of the stretched timing chain cases.

one oil change in 35,000KM? thats your ticking noise. oil changes should be done every 7-8000KM.

[motorwerkeman]

one oil change in 35,000KM? thats your ticking noise. oil changes should be done every 7-8000KM

Wrong. Car was serviced at BMW dealer before I owned it, and booked a service appointment including an oil change under warranty as soon as I took possession of the car earlier this year.

BMW LL01 is recommended at 18,000km interval on the iDrive. I made sure the change was completed at 10,000km interval with OEM filter and LL01 approved Castrol following the warranty expiry. This is not a case of poor maintenance, but faulty parts - there's a reason BMW revised the chain and guides for 2015.

Hmm, does your engine whine when you give it gas? Also $1k for an inspection is bs. They are taking your money. I would go back and tell them you want this fixed for free as this is a known issue for this engine if it is a Stretching chain or a oil pump going bad. These have been the 2 main issues with these cars on early production years and they offer a new timing chain guide and chain to correct this and there is a TSB for it. I would advise they fix for free due to a manufacturing issue that is not caused by you but buy BMW and they should own up to replacing it. There may be lots of going back and forth on this but hopefully they will fix for free or cover most of the expense if this is a timing chain or oil pump issue. If your SA doesn't go anything for you ask to speak to the Service Manager and ask for replacement under "Good Faith" for such a low mileage car that is just outside of warranty.

Thanks for the insight. As soon as I heard it make the knock/tick at higher rpm twice I drove to the dealer immediately at 1500rpm and below, so unsure if any whine could be observed. The car ran great before this and I was really impressed with the N20 prior to the issue. The dealer may a marginal percentage discount - pending conditions - on some of the costs. Best approximation I have heard is $8,000 tax in best-case scenario. Independent estimate including labor assuming the chain, guides, oil pump parts, and associated hardware were to be replaced is around $3,500.

[Chris@codemybimmer]

Originally Posted by motorwerkeman

Wrong. Car was serviced at BMW dealer before I owned it, and booked a service appointment including an oil change under warranty as soon as I took possession of the car earlier this year.

BMW LL01 is recommended at 18,000km interval on the iDrive. I made sure the change was completed at 10,000km interval with OEM filter and LL01 approved Castrol following the warranty expiry. This is not a case of poor maintenance, but faulty parts - there's a reason BMW revised the chain and guides for 2015.



Thanks for the insight. As soon as I heard it make the knock/tick at higher rpm twice I drove to the dealer immediately at 1500rpm and below, so unsure if any whine could be observed. The car ran great before this and I was really impressed with the N20 prior to the issue. The dealer may a marginal percentage discount - pending conditions - on some of the costs. Best approximation I have heard is $8,000 tax in best-case scenario. Independent estimate including labor assuming the chain, guides, oil pump parts, and associated hardware were to be replaced is around $3,500.

I was always a bit scared of the timing chain issue. given that i had terrible experience with local dealerships during the first year of owning the car, i have never been back to any dealer for any type of service except for recalls.

When i first heard of the timing chain issue effecting 12/13 models, i asked some dealers if they would replace it under the TSB. obviously they declined because they have no service records except for one oil change and a few recalls.

since they wouldn't do it and wanted to charge me up the ass to get it done. i took my car to a garage and had it done there for 1/4 the price almost.

would've got forged piston and rods too if they were out at the time. but now im holding out on that and hoping nothing major happens to my engine.

[KGB_123_99]

Does anyone have the TSB number for the timing chain?

[F30ed]

Originally Posted by 1lyfe

i took my car to a garage and had it done there for 1/4 the price almost.

I did not quite get it what exactly you did. Did your chain failed or you replaced it as preventive measure? If second, how much $ and time? Thanks

[loggin]

I am curious as to what the amount was that you paid for the job so I can factor in the cost if I need to do the same??.. I am also just out of warranty..

Thanks..

[THE_AVIATOR]

Surprise surprise, it's also in the B48 engine.

I dropped my car to its 2nd service today. Just 21735KM and it has 5 super-knocking cylinder 3 as well as same 5 in "all cylinders" I only felt one of them under heavy acceleration switching from ECO PRO to SPORT mode. All 5 started at 20041KM and last one happened like 900Km ago.

Also, a few days ago, I parked at the super market, stayed there for like 7 minutes, started the car, it took a tad longer to start, and the moment it started rattled for a second and then normal. I drove for like 10 km. Stopped, A.S.S worked normal. another 3 km. Parked at home, stopped, then started again and everything is normal.

They had to keep the car in for further diagnoses and the engineer told me it's the first time they see such a thing and need to contact Germany about it.

[Chris@codemybimmer]

Originally Posted by F30ed

I did not quite get it what exactly you did. Did your chain failed or you replaced it as preventive measure? If second, how much $ and time? Thanks

parts costed around 500$ CAD.

BMW tech quoted me 10hours labor
took the shop 3 days of on and off work to get it complete.
We took the engine out of the car, disassembled everything and put it back in.

When we looked at it, it is possible to do all the work with the engine in. but since they havent done one before. it was easier to just take the whole block out and put it back in when complete.

[Andy2K]

Originally Posted by 1lyfe

parts costed around 500$ CAD.

BMW tech quoted me 10hours labor
took the shop 3 days of on and off work to get it complete.
We took the engine out of the car, disassembled everything and put it back in.

When we looked at it, it is possible to do all the work with the engine in. but since they havent done one before. it was easier to just take the whole block out and put it back in when complete.

Hi 1lyfe,

I am in Toronto and am looking around to see if I can get this done, dealer is not willing to do this job and I am also out of warranty. Was wondering where you got this done and approx how much the cost of was - I am assuming you had timing chain, rails, oil pump and oil pump chain done. I have looked around a few places and got quotes for around 2000 for just the timing chain and rails but am thinking its best to also do oil pump and chain as well. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I am currently at 99,000 km and stories of engine failure are giving me anxiety.

[Chris@codemybimmer]

Originally Posted by Andy2K

Hi 1lyfe,

I am in Toronto and am looking around to see if I can get this done, dealer is not willing to do this job and I am also out of warranty. Was wondering where you got this done and approx how much the cost of was - I am assuming you had timing chain, rails, oil pump and oil pump chain done. I have looked around a few places and got quotes for around 2000 for just the timing chain and rails but am thinking its best to also do oil pump and chain as well. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I am currently at 99,000 km and stories of engine failure are giving me anxiety.

The shop i took it to is a relative of mine so they didn't charge me any labor and i helped for the most part of the "repair".

I only did the timing chain and rails. i was thinking for also doing the oil pump and chain but at 60k km, they said it was not absolutely needed since its relatively new.

when summer rolls around i am planning on getting forged pistons and rods so at that point i think i will also do the oil pump/chain and waterpump as well since i am also sitting around 98k kms right now.

[cheychey]

Is that $2000 cad just for the timing chain and guide rail part only or labour as well? I'm in a similar predicament as well. Car sitting at 100k and hear a really slight whine. Just left dropped off my 2012 BMW X1 28i at BMW Etobicoke for diagnostics. Any got a quote from BMW itself just to compare?

Originally Posted by Andy2K

Hi 1lyfe,

I am in Toronto and am looking around to see if I can get this done, dealer is not willing to do this job and I am also out of warranty. Was wondering where you got this done and approx how much the cost of was - I am assuming you had timing chain, rails, oil pump and oil pump chain done. I have looked around a few places and got quotes for around 2000 for just the timing chain and rails but am thinking its best to also do oil pump and chain as well. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I am currently at 99,000 km and stories of engine failure are giving me anxiety.

[Andy2K]

Originally Posted by cheychey

Is that $2000 cad just for the timing chain and guide rail part only or labour as well? I'm in a similar predicament as well. Car sitting at 100k and hear a really slight whine. Just left dropped off my 2012 BMW X1 28i at BMW Etobicoke for diagnostics. Any got a quote from BMW itself just to compare?

Sorry for the late reply, was on vacation only to get back and see my car got hit while parked in a parking lot. Had to get the bumper and hood repainted so not too happy about that.

As for the $2000 CAD that covers parts and labour (timing chain and plastic rail) and is a rough estimate for a RWD F30. The problem is I think that also the oil pump and oil pump chain should be replaced which will cost more, that I am still looking into. Both will have catastrophic effects when they fail.

Let me know what BMW Etobicoke says, and how is the whine? Is it constant or does it go away once engine has warmed up?

[cheychey]

No worries thanks for getting back. Sorry to hear about the hit. Got the car back they diagnosed it needs the timing chain and oil pump drive chain to be replaced due to excessive wear on the chains and sprockets causing the whining noise. Was quoted $7400+tax for that and also the turbocharger oil feed line needs to be changed quoted 1400+tax . Called bmw canada customer service rep, weren't really helpful just said will have a supervisor call back. I'm in the meantime writing a letter to bmwna and see from there. Also since i bought the car in end of dec from a used car dealership am going back there to see that they rectify this. This is ridiculous for a car thats been well maintained and serviced according to the service history, to have a its timing chain and pump wore out at this stage. I wish I had researched about the n20 before getting the x1 am so upset about these costs. Btw the whine is really low and its heard more on revving up the engine above 3000 rpms. I sent a video to bmwtechnician and he told me he heard it thats why i took it to bmw etobicoke to confirm. Its no more being driven now until i can get this sorted out.

Originally Posted by Andy2K

Sorry for the late reply, was on vacation only to get back and see my car got hit while parked in a parking lot. Had to get the bumper and hood repainted so not too happy about that.

As for the $2000 CAD that covers parts and labour (timing chain and plastic rail) and is a rough estimate for a RWD F30. The problem is I think that also the oil pump and oil pump chain should be replaced which will cost more, that I am still looking into. Both will have catastrophic effects when they fail.

Let me know what BMW Etobicoke says, and how is the whine? Is it constant or does it go away once engine has warmed up?

[Chris@codemybimmer]

Originally Posted by cheychey

No worries thanks for getting back. Sorry to hear about the hit. Got the car back they diagnosed it needs the timing chain and oil pump drive chain to be replaced due to excessive wear on the chains and sprockets causing the whining noise. Was quoted $7400+tax for that and also the turbocharger oil feed line needs to be changed quoted 1400+tax . Called bmw canada customer service rep, weren't really helpful just said will have a supervisor call back. I'm in the meantime writing a letter to bmwna and see from there. Also since i bought the car in end of dec from a used car dealership am going back there to see that they rectify this. This is ridiculous for a car thats been well maintained and serviced according to the service history, to have a its timing chain and pump wore out at this stage. I wish I had researched about the n20 before getting the x1 am so upset about these costs. Btw the whine is really low and its heard more on revving up the engine above 3000 rpms. I sent a video to bmwtechnician and he told me he heard it thats why i took it to bmw etobicoke to confirm. Its no more being driven now until i can get this sorted out.

If youre from Missisauga, try taking it to Pfaff BMW on dixie.
Speak to Steve and mention you are from BMWTN.
As I recall there is a TSB for the timing chain to be replaced which means its conditional, but if you have all the service records (which you do) you SHOULD have a pretty high chance that they SHOULD cover it even if you are outside the warranty period.
i talked to Steve about my timing chain (even though i don't have the whining noise) and he was able to help me get good will from BMW to cover half of the cost but i have absolutely no service records (never took my car in except for recalls). It also didnt help that my car was modded to hell lol.

[cheychey]

Do you think I should still get the used dealership involved as well? Also should I still send an email to bmwna? I don't have the service records on me, when I went in to do a 55 point inspection before the diagnostics the sa went through the service history and said its been upto date on oil changes and maintainance. I will definitely go and talk with steve. Is he an sa or service manager? I'm too scared to drive the car out of fear the chain would break. Would it be ok just to go in and talk to him without the car? Or should i tow the car there? Thanks again for the info.

Originally Posted by 1lyfe

If youre from Missisauga, try taking it to Pfaff BMW on dixie.
Speak to Steve and mention you are from BMWTN.
As I recall there is a puma case for the timing chain to be replaced which means its conditional, but if you have all the service records (which you do) you SHOULD have a pretty high chance that they SHOULD cover it even if you are outside the warranty period.
i talked to Steve about my timing chain (even though i don't have the whining noise) and he was able to help me get good will from BMW to cover half of the cost but i have absolutely no service records (never took my car in except for recalls). It also didnt help that my car was modded to hell lol.

[Chris@codemybimmer]

Originally Posted by cheychey

Do you think I should still get the used dealership involved as well? Also should I still send an email to bmwna? I don't have the service records on me, when I went in to do a 55 point inspection before the diagnostics the sa went through the service history and said its been upto date on oil changes and maintainance. I will definitely go and talk with steve. Is he an sa or service manager? I'm too scared to drive the car out of fear the chain would break. Would it be ok just to go in and talk to him without the car? Or should i tow the car there? Thanks again for the info.

Did the used car dealer offer any kind of warranty? if they didn't or you are outside their warranty coverage, i would say it's not really their fault. I'm sure the used car dealer has checked for outstanding recalls before selling it, but i wouldn't expect them to go in depth and research other potential problems with the engine before selling it off you or someone else.
The main party at fault here is BMW, they designed the engine and they know of the timing chain fault and opened a TSB but they won't issue a recall (probably because it will cost them a crap tonne of money to replace all those chains which is extremely labor intensive).

Steve is just a regular SA, but he is the SA that all BMWTN members go through when they service their cars at Pfaff, and some of them have cars that have been modded like crazy and still gets warranty coverage from Pfaff. I have never gotten to the point where i needed to contact BMWNA before so i'm not quite sure if you want to do that before you go to Pfaff or after. But when they submit a Puma case to BMWNA, if there is a record of you contacting them already, BMWNA might just deny the claim since its technically been denied once already. Whereas if you don't submit a letter, whoever looks at the Puma case at BMWNA might not know the history and just approve the warranty coverage. This is just a thought, i'm not really sure how it works. But if it was me, i would send in the letter in after going to Pfaff.

If you don't feel confident in driving the car then don't. If the chain snaps while driving you pretty much need a new engine. But at a minimum, bring in both of your keys and ownership/paperwork so they can pull all the information they need in their database.

[cheychey]

Thanks so much for that reply. I definitely get what you're saying about the letter and will take your advise on not sending that out before I speak to steve. I did however contacted bmw customer service when I first found out about the diagnoses but they weren't helpful and just said a supervisor will call me. I hope I didn't screw myself over by doing that. Also I wasn't offered any kind of warranty by the used dealership, but still think they should help out in someway. Still will go with your advice and first contact steve and go on from there. thanks again. Will keep you posted.

Originally Posted by 1lyfe

Did the used car dealer offer any kind of warranty? if they didn't or you are outside their warranty coverage, i would say it's not really their fault. I'm sure the used car dealer has checked for outstanding recalls before selling it, but i wouldn't expect them to go in depth and research other potential problems with the engine before selling it off you or someone else.
The main party at fault here is BMW, they designed the engine and they know of the timing chain fault and opened a TSB but they won't issue a recall (probably because it will cost them a crap tonne of money to replace all those chains which is extremely labor intensive).

Steve is just a regular SA, but he is the SA that all BMWTN members go through when they service their cars at Pfaff, and some of them have cars that have been modded like crazy and still gets warranty coverage from Pfaff. I have never gotten to the point where i needed to contact BMWNA before so i'm not quite sure if you want to do that before you go to Pfaff or after. But when they submit a Puma case to BMWNA, if there is a record of you contacting them already, BMWNA might just deny the claim since its technically been denied once already. Whereas if you don't submit a letter, whoever looks at the Puma case at BMWNA might not know the history and just approve the warranty coverage. This is just a thought, i'm not really sure how it works. But if it was me, i would send in the letter in after going to Pfaff.

If you don't feel confident in driving the car then don't. If the chain snaps while driving you pretty much need a new engine. But at a minimum, bring in both of your keys and ownership/paperwork so they can pull all the information they need in their database.