[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

All very true, it is a bratty mentality, and I'm of the opinion that at the end of the day the only opinion that matters is your own but you're right OP did ask for everyone's $0.02. I personally wouldn't spend a lot of money on a car solely because I like the way it looks but I know people who would. At the end of the day, I just don't really care enough to have too strong of an opinion on it.

I personally get annoyed when I see people slapping M badges on non-M cars. Hell I don't like all of the M badges on my own car (it's an M-Sport) but at least they're only noticeable if you're looking for them. To the casual eye, you'll never see them.

fecurtis, I respect you; think you know that by now, so all is good.

To me, posing gets to me due to the mentality behind it all; i.e. being fake. I just read an article on Automobilemag.com sitting here at the airport that talked about how poseurs and opportunist investors are jacking up the prices of enthusiast cars to the point they are now out of reach of most normal guys who just love the damn car. The economy is great (sure I benefit), but the new money guys just come out of the woodwork as result.

Poseurs are why a 3 series can now approach $60K. As demand goes, so do prices.

///M cars cost what they do because of the badge whores seeking attention. They are now these insane monsters due to these same guys, not knowing much about cars overall, just want "the car to go fast as hell man so I can brag to my boys" bullshit.

The ///M3 in previous generations were just perfect performance cars. They did look cool, but you could actually drive them. The F80/F82 just seems like it's trying to kill you or someone else. I do like this visceral feeling that demands that you respect the cars authoritah! , but again, the car is someone out of reach. Not by price, but skill required to drive. Yes, I can handle it, as I'm a bit trained, but I've watched some guys struggle like hell at track days here at Road Atlanta. At Barber in Birmingham, which is already one of the more complex tracks on earth, I've watched more cars be destroyed than I care to recall. The new F82 I've watched get wrecked more than once this year.

[lens]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

Hey, I never said I don't like the car lol. I think the car is perfect the way it is and always leaves you looking like this

I had plenty of the "oh shit moments" and loved every minute of it.

I remember test driving a M4 for shits and giggles with my salesman to tell a difference between that and a 335i, and me and the salesman were giggling like children when I floored it in a straightaway (safely) the wheelspin from all that torque is quite fun to hear.

[MikeVictor]

Hi OP.

If you're not planning on going to the track, I'd suggest a well spec'ed 340i.

M cars are a waste if their not tracked IMO. After all, there's only so much you can do on public roads when you take into account the safety of you and other road users.

[SPACEMANRICK]

Great thread! I am trading in my 2013 automatic 335 xdrive for a 2016 6 speed manual M3 and should be receiving it sometime in the next 2 weeks. I don’t plan to track my M3 and no doubt the M3 is overkill for the street but so is my 335 xdrive. One of the main things I miss is the 6 speed manual and I was on the fence between ordering a 6 speed manual M3 or 340 xdrive. My last 3 cars ( 2002 330xi, 2006 330i, 2008 335xi) have been manual transmission before I decided to try to automatic in my 2013 335 xdrive but I quickly grew bored of driving the automatic after a few months.

With the bulging fenders, quad exhaust, carbon fibre roof, M sport seats, cooling vents, and M side mirrors I think it is safe to say that the M3 is a much better looking more muscular looking car than the 340 models. I also really like the option to independently change to 3 levels the suspension, steering, throttle, and traction control and save these settings on 2 steering wheel M buttons.

We don’t get the great lease deals in Canada like others do in the USA so I don’t lease my cars but I typically trade my cars in after 3 or 4 years. The M3 might initially cost $20,000 more to buy than a 340i but after 4 years the trade in value of the M3 will be $16,000 to $18,000 more than the 340i so the M3 doesn’t actually cost very much more than a 340i. My thought was that I love cars and financially the M3 was something I could afford so why not do it while I am still relatively young and I am still able to enjoy it i good health.

My only concern is that for a daily driver the M3 might be a little harsh and noisy but the roads here in Vancouver are generally pretty good so I will have to reserve judgement until I have had the car for a few months. I will report back after a few months and let everyone know........

[Trekk]

Thank you all for sharing your perspective. MomoM3, gars, your experience rings very close to where I am - thank you.

I don't think the M3 vs 340i is a right-or-wrong question, and I appreciate all views.

I briefly said that I like the looks of the M3, but that's understating it. I'll elaborate.

I think the goddess of automotive design was personally there when BMW drew the M3/4. The stance, the ground distance, the wheels, the front, the back, the headlights - it all adds to more than the sum of the parts. It strikes me like a work of art can. I get that momentary, unconscious breath hold as I contemplate it in a showroom.

I don't experience that magic in cars 5x the price of the M3, and I think it dilutes as you go towards the M2 or the M5.

And then there is the beauty of the BMW M engineering, the joy of everything that hides under that gorgeous sheet metal. I perceive it as a high class car that can still primordially roar.

So, what is the target customer?

When you look at the M4 GTS, you see this: deleted rear seats, light console and door panels, non-adjustable carbon fiber seats, straps instead of door handles, adjustable rear wing, and a standard roll bar and fire extinguisher. Hardly any room for confusion, is it.

The M3? Four doors, merino leather seats, stitched fine leather on the dash and doors, executive options and driver assists. It sends a very different message.

BMW, or at least their marketing and sales people, place the M3 at the apex of the 3 series. It supposed to be better in every way than a 340i: more powerful, more luxurious, and more aggressive design. More of everything.

In my experience that is not true - the street driving experience is noticeably compromised, presumably for better track performance. As it stands, I would use the car almost exclusively for street driving. That does not make the M3 a lesser car, it just points to the fact that 340i might be a better option for me.

How much of a compromise does the M3 bring for daily driving? Is it something that becomes endearing with time, or is something that ultimately makes you want to drive something else? That question, subjective as it is, is the reason for striking a conversation with people who owned the M3 or had similar concerns. It is difficult to figure this out on a short test drive.

[Ali Shiralian]

My 2014 335 lease will be up next year and I was seriously cosideting getting an M4, but after test driving one, both my wife and I found the car too noisy and the ride harsh even in the comfort mode. I don't track my cars but I'd like to have more power, do we visited the Audi dealership. Well we both like the RS7, yes I know not in the same price range, but we wondered how come Audi can make a car with over 500hp and such a smooth drive that can be used as a daily?

It wasn't in our budget so we will probably settle for the 550. It was a definit step up versus the F30 both interior wise and power.


Cheers

[dalto]

Originally Posted by Trekk

So, what is the target customer?

The M3? Four doors, merino leather seats, stitched fine leather on the dash and doors, executive options and driver assists. It sends a very different message.

BMW, or at least their marketing and sales people, place the M3 at the apex of the 3 series. It supposed to be better in every way than a 340i: more powerful, more luxurious, and more aggressive design. More of everything.

In my experience that is not true - the street driving experience is noticeably compromised, presumably for better track performance. As it stands, I would use the car almost exclusively for street driving. That does not make the M3 a lesser car, it just points to the fact that 340i might be a better option for me.

The M3/M4 is a performance car first and everything else second. I don't really agree with the poster above that said it is primarily made to be a track car. It is clearly made to be a car that you can take to the track but still drive the family to school in.

Originally Posted by Trekk

How much of a compromise does the M3 bring for daily driving? Is it something that becomes endearing with time, or is something that ultimately makes you want to drive something else? That question, subjective as it is, is the reason for striking a conversation with people who owned the M3 or had similar concerns. It is difficult to figure this out on a short test drive.

From my perspective there is too much personal preference here to really give good advice.

For example, for my daily driving I find the suspension in a pre-LCI F3x to be spongy. I don't enjoy driving them and would never buy one. For me, the adaptive suspension in F80 in comfort mode is just right. Firm and responsive without every little bump being a jarring experience. Especially with 18" wheels. Someone who thinks the suspension in the pre-LCI F3x to be just right will find the F80 way too stiff. As a side note, without active suspension I find the F80 ride to be too stiff except on the smoothest of roads.

The same thing is true of road noise. The weight reduction in the F80 has removed some of the sound deadening and road noise is increased. Is it too loud? That really depends on personal preference(and wheel/tire selection). It is definitely louder than the F30.

Next you have the non-conventional shifting/parking operation of the F80. Is it a pro for you or is it con?

Do you care about gas mileage? Because it is much better in the F30.

Those to me are the big things that could be considered "less" on the M3 compared to the 340i.

The trade-off is improved styling, acceleration, better handling, better leather, more control of drive settings and, for me, more fun.

Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian

I don't track my cars but I'd like to have more power, do we visited the Audi dealership. Well we both like the RS7, yes I know not in the same price range, but we wondered how come Audi can make a car with over 500hp and such a smooth drive that can be used as a daily?

BMW makes a car like that too. It is the M5.

[MomoM3]

TIL rolltidef32 is not so bad after all - at least he backs up his trash talk elsewhere with posts of substance here and there.

Seriously though, the M3 is not a car that is even close in comparison to a 340i. After driving M3s for years I was hugely disappointed when I drove non-Ms. Ms are a completely different caliber and no you absolutely do not need to track an M to own one. You can have fun and be safe when necessary. It's just all about balance, suspension, handling, etc that you can't find in a non M car.

Also, I think making an M3/M4 a daily driver vastly depends on where you live. Of course you guys in CA or FL think it's a fine daily driver! Heck, I thought it was a fine daily driver in NYC under the circumstance that you have plenty of other options to get around during crappy weather. Stiff, loud, etc... who cares, it's an M, it's supposed to sound raw and raspy. Ms make the weirdest freaking sounds in the world for no good reason. And that's fine because that's part of the package. Just mash that brake at 50 to get rid of the squeals!

Weird thing is that I feel more at ease not having a crazy freaking car. I don't care where I park it, I don't go nuts if it rains after I wash it, I don't obsess over it as much, etc. 340i will make me feel as though I have any other car but has just enough premium options to not make me feel I'm driving a Camry.

Don't get me wrong, I would so much rather own a M3 than a 340i but needed a car I could throw a pair of skis in the back and not care that there is a salt-crust caked all over the car. Sure I'm going to care a lot about my car but not as obsessively much as the M3. I have my AWD, 6MT, and hopefully MPPK so I'll be set for a few years.

[SPACEMANRICK]

Good point, coming from my E90 2008 335 xdrive to my current 2013 335 xdrive I found the F30 way too soft and floaty around corners compared to the E90. Hopefully the M3 with adaptive suspension firms things up just the right amount without being too harsh to live with on a daily basis.

[otay]

Reason to get a M3

Love this video!

Reason not to get an M3:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review

These pretty much back up what y'all are saying: crazy good performance...maybe not so good as a DD.

OP, I too think this is the best looking sedan available today.

[G30 B58]

Originally Posted by Trekk

Because of how it looks - I like the design, inside and out.

An M-Sport looks pretty damn good and most normal people wouldn't know it isn't an M if they didn't see an M parked next to it.

Just get a 340i optioned the way you want it. Get the leather dash, get the LEDs, get the 19's. I'm sure you'll be able to live with it.

[BMHunden]

Originally Posted by F32 N55

An M-Sport looks pretty damn good and most normal people wouldn't know it isn't an M if they didn't see an M parked next to it.

Just get a 340i optioned the way you want it. Get the leather dash, get the LEDs, get the 19's. I'm sure you'll be able to live with it.

@ F32 N55:

Doesn't your brother own an M4, and you drive a 435i with MPPK? Aren't you therefore in a position to give us your comparison?

(With particular emphasis on ride comfort please. I traded in my 435i with non-adaptive m-sport suspension for the same model with it, at a big financial hit. And couldn't be happier, especially after the software upgrade that has just been done on my car at its first service!)

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by otay

Reason to get a M3

Love this video!

Reason not to get an M3:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review

These pretty much back up what y'all are saying: crazy good performance...maybe not so good as a DD.

OP, I too think this is the best looking sedan available today.

If the F80 is good enough for a Monkey, then it is good enough for me

[TheDuke83]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

What makes us "care" as you say, is the fact that he has asked us all here on the internet on this forum. So yeah, someone asks for opinions, they get them.

You guys really sound bad sometimes with this whole "it's my money and I can do what I want with it" This is what a brat would say, so lets try to give a deeper response. Besides, this is already implied.

I'm used to you offering more thoughtful banter.

I'm in one of the poseur capitals of America here in Atlanta. Most of these guys in ///M cars just are for the badge. Can't tell you how many end up in ditches on the side of the freeway here almost daily.

Now, to the track car jazz. I don't think these turbo monsters are best on a track. I prefer an NA Cayman, but even Porsche will now go all turbo. This means our driving skills must adapt or just drive older cars for track day, which I reckon many will elect to do.

The ///M with their monster turbos are BMWs current expression of a track car. I did ///M school at the Performance Center in the new F82 and just felt the car was overkill and overweight at the same time; not good. No matter what those guys said, I still said it doesn't compete with how a Cayman or 911s felt on a track. Fast is not necessary the most important quality of a great sports car.

Holy hyperbole. M3's in ditches on the side of highways in Atlanta almost daily? C'mon man.

[zarraz]

I had a e36 m3 went in to purchase a 2015 m3 f80, while I was at the dealership working out numbers, saw a almost new 2015 m3 bring traded in, I asked the owner what was going on, he said the car was too harsh for him it was too loud and the ride was not comfortable the car only had 9450 km on it, so he traded it in for a 340 loaded, took the hit on the depreaciation. I then stopped with the numbers and asked to take a m3 for a test drive first, I loved the m3 and proceed to doing all the paper work, took my wife in to see it and she hated it liked the gc better, so I ended up with the gran coupe fully equipped with all the m performance add on and all the carbon accessories etc, I am glad I bought the gc as it is a nicer drive everyday, and my wife can drive it too easily, she did not like the ride or driveablity of the m3. plus I also have xdrive and as mentioned already in Canada it is a must have.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Trekk

The car felt heavy and stiff. It felt like it was operating in a regime it was not designed for.

. Lots of bark, but not as much bite as you'd think.

I'm wondering if anyone else went the M3/M4 route but ultimately came back to non-M cars. I would very much appreciate if you could share your experience, and your reasons.

hi OP, if you are wondering about it, don't get the M3. enjoy the highly optioned 340

I daily drive my F80 and borrow my wife's F30 335 and am happy to discuss further on PM. I've also posted a lot about this on the forums in the past so I won't rehash it here.

I can't help but respond to your "all bark and no bite" comment though. Since I suspect you kept DSC ON during your test drive (which is obviously the smart thing to do, but the car is very traction limited and the electronics really kick in to limit power)

Find an empty, open road and use DSC OFF and DCT in S3 mode before making judgments on the "bite" of the F80. the power is there (i.e. it really is a 116-120mph trap speed car, does 0-100mph in the mid 8s range, and will flash the traction control light in 3rd gear on the highway if you jump on the throttle)

EDIT: I also feel the need to reply to the posts that suggest the car is hard to control or daily drive. It isn't either of these things. It is very easy to daily drive and road trip in, especially with the throttle in efficient, steering in comfort and DSC ON.

As for being able to control it, it is a 420whp car/35XX lb car with only 275 wide PSS in the rear. if you have the DSC OFF and are careless with the throttle or want to slide the car, it will come around (but then what car with that power level won't?). You can drive the car cleanly with no issues if you are careful with the throttle (like any other higher power RWD car). or keep DSC ON, and accept it may cut power on exit

[G30 B58]

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

@ F32 N55:

Doesn't your brother own an M4, and you drive a 435i with MPPK? Aren't you therefore in a position to give us your comparison?

(With particular emphasis on ride comfort please. I traded in my 435i with non-adaptive m-sport suspension for the same model with it, at a big financial hit. And couldn't be happier, especially after the software upgrade that has just been done on my car at its first service!)

He does, both cars have catless downpipes and JB4s.

I love our fully loaded 435i M-Sport, it's fast, luxurious, and sporty. It's only when I drive his M4 that I realize what I could have had. But to be honest, 99% of the time, the 435i is more than enough car for our needs.

Ride comfort, my brother would rather have the sport seats in the 435 than the ones in his M4. Why? Because of his back problems. I love the extended leather in the M4, but that's a $$ option. The leather dash in our car is fine. I do miss the dash / gauges in the M4 when I ride in our 435i.Sure you could drive the M4 in comfort, put the DCT in the soft shift mode for putting around town, but again 99% of the time the 435i is more than enough car. I could go on and on but it's all been covered. Both cars have their merits and drawbacks. It all comes down to the owners wants, needs and intended use of the car.

I could have sold my track car (S2000) and stepped up to the M4 but it just wasn't worth it to me. If I put my S2000 in the weeds, sure I'll be upset but it's paid for. If I had bought and tracked the M4 and put it into the weeds, I'd be in a tough spot even with track day insurance which I don't want with my S2000.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

hi OP, if you are wondering about it, don't get the M3. enjoy the highly optioned 340

I daily drive my F80 and borrow my wife's F30 335 and am happy to discuss further on PM. I've also posted a lot about this on the forums in the past so I won't rehash it here.

I can't help but respond to your "all bark and no bite" comment though. Since I suspect you kept DSC ON during your test drive (which is obviously the smart thing to do, but the car is very traction limited and the electronics really kick in to limit power)

Find an empty, open road and use DSC OFF and DCT in S3 mode before making judgments on the "bite" of the F80. the power is there (i.e. it really is a 116-120mph trap speed car, does 0-100mph in the mid 8s range, and will flash the traction control light in 3rd gear on the highway if you jump on the throttle)

EDIT: I also feel the need to reply to the posts that suggest the car is hard to control or daily drive. It isn't either of these things. It is very easy to daily drive and road trip in, especially with the throttle in efficient, steering in comfort and DSC ON.

As for being able to control it, it is a 420whp car/35XX lb car with only 275 wide PSS in the rear. if you have the DSC OFF and are careless with the throttle or want to slide the car, it will come around (but then what car with that power level won't?). You can drive the car cleanly with no issues if you are careful with the throttle (like any other higher power RWD car). or keep DSC ON, and accept it may cut power on exit

But Nick, look at all that you had to describe that's required to keep an ///M4 tamed. The F82 is a wild animal.

You can keep a lion in a cage at the zoo also, but let it out and the bastard will bite you; same with the ///M.

Also know that you've had some training and track time. Most guys who buy these cars do neither; this makes them and the cars much more dangerous.

It's irresponsible to say that just any shmuck with the coin can safely and effectively DD an M, too much evidence to the contrary.

We all know that pride and cars go hand in hand, so no guy here will say they couldn't handle an ///M, so I ignore all of the macho BS being written on this topic.

Beyond that, if a guy currently drives an ///M as his DD, do we really honestly expect him to contradict himself and say that you shouldn't?

But what if that same guy only putt putts his ///M around through traffic in Comfort all day with all the nannies on? WTF is that saying really? It says that he probably would be better in a 340i where he can at least experience and handle the car in Sport other than an every blue moon track day.

Further, trying to force an M or any high performance car through a heavy traffic urban area is caging the elephant. Think of the guys who insist on driving Ferrari's through Manhattan.... Sure you can if you can afford it, but what are you really doing in this situation?

[dalto]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

But Nick, look at all that you had to describe that's required to keep an ///M4 tamed. The F82 is a wild animal.

Most of what he wrote was not how to keep the car "tamed" as you call it.

Let me provide more simple instructions.
Step 1 - Don't turn off DSC.

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

You can keep a lion in a cage at the zoo also, but let it out and the bastard will bite you; same with the ///M.

Also know that you've had some training and track time. Most guys who buy these cars do neither; this makes them and the cars much more dangerous.

It's irresponsible to say that just any shmuck with the coin can safely and effectively DD an M, too much evidence to the contrary.

We all know that pride and cars go hand in hand, so no guy here will say they couldn't handle an ///M, so I ignore all of the macho BS being written on this topic.

What? It drives like any other car in normal scenarios. A highly responsive, fun to drive car, but still a car. It is not some untamed beast that you need hold the leash on to keep from killing you. Have you ever even driven one?

That being said, if you turn DSC off and stomp on the gas will the car go out of control? Yes. Almost immediately. But you have to take an active step of turning off DSC.

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

But what if that same guy only putt putts his ///M around through traffic in Comfort all day with all the nannies on? WTF is that saying really? It says that he probably would be better in a 340i where he can at least experience and handle the car in Sport other than an every blue moon track day.

It says he likes the M3 better than the 340i and so he bought one.

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

Think of the guys who insist on driving Ferrari's through Manhattan.... Sure you can if you can afford it, but what are you really doing in this situation?

Enjoying your drive through Manhattan in a nice car?

[joz]

This thread brings up my biggest fear. I've always wanted an m3 and when the lease is up I'll seriously consider it. But when I'm in the 335 I find myself asking what's the point of more?

To be fair though I haven't driven the new f80 so that may all change ?

[G30 B58]

Originally Posted by dalto

Enjoying your drive through Manhattan in a nice car?

The most unfriendly city for a car. Have you been there dalto?