[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by OneExtra

In Liam's case a lot of what he got he sort of asked for but it got out of control and by removing the problem has made for a calmer forum or so it appears.

Yes, I think that's reasonable and balanced comment. But he never really started it, and generally became the focus for one reason or another, and then responded to it in such away that didn't help either.

But there are a few here who did not exactly cover themselves in glory.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

I blame Lobb. If he hadn't removed the fictitious Pet1 from the forum, Caz would have escaped any abuse.

[JD6]

This 2 year transitional deal which everyone seems to agree on feels a lot like remaining in the EU, albeit with a fixed (for now) end date. Nothing really changes in 2019 as far as I can tell. Presumably they'll make some token change (passport colour, apples to be sold by the pound...) to appease Sun readers.

The 'double lock' promise from May is interesting, as it is virtually certain that she'll be gone well before the end of the 2 year period, and probably nearer the start. Promises made by one PM seem to hold very little weight with the next one...

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by JD6

This 2 year transitional deal which everyone seems to agree on feels a lot like remaining in the EU, albeit with a fixed (for now) end date. Nothing really changes in 2019 as far as I can tell. Presumably they'll make some token change (passport colour, apples to be sold by the pound...) to appease Sun readers.

The 'double lock' promise from May is interesting, as it is virtually certain that she'll be gone well before the end of the 2 year period, and probably nearer the start. Promises made by one PM seem to hold very little weight with the next one...

Like being part of the EU but without any say in what's going on.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Lobb

No, big difference Terry.

We will not be a member of the EU. It's a one way street, with no turning back. Totally different to our position before the referendum.

Is there a yawn emoticon?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by JD6

This 2 year transitional deal which everyone seems to agree on feels a lot like remaining in the EU, albeit with a fixed (for now) end date. Nothing really changes in 2019 as far as I can tell. Presumably they'll make some token change (passport colour, apples to be sold by the pound...) to appease Sun readers.

The 'double lock' promise from May is interesting, as it is virtually certain that she'll be gone well before the end of the 2 year period, and probably nearer the start. Promises made by one PM seem to hold very little weight with the next one...

I get a distinct whiff of Remain MP's increasingly setting the agenda, something that was probably inevitable following the General Election result earlier this year.

I have to say I'm now no longer convinced Brexit will actually happen and if we move towards a "soft Brexit" - in which we remain in the Customs Union and/or the Single market - I actually see little point in leaving. In that scenario we'll still have to pay to be members and will be playing by EU rules which we'll no longer have a say in formulating; just don't see the sense in that personally....

[BnB]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I get a distinct whiff of Remain MP's increasingly setting the agenda, something that was probably inevitable following the General Election result earlier this year.

I have to say I'm now no longer convinced Brexit will actually happen and if we move towards a "soft Brexit" - in which we remain in the Customs Union and/or the Single market - I actually see little point in leaving. In that scenario we'll still have to pay to be members and will be playing by EU rules which we'll no longer have a say in formulating; just don't see the sense in that personally....

How about the freedom to trade tariff-free outside the EU (which is not not possible today as a current EU member) while continuing to trade tariff free inside it?

China, USA, India AND the EU as major partners. That's the dream scenario. Which is to say it may only be a dream but that doesn't make it undesirable.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by BnB

How about the freedom to trade tariff-free outside the EU (which is not not possible today as a current EU member) while continuing to trade tariff free inside it?

China, USA, India AND the EU as major partners. That's the dream scenario. Which is to say it may only be a dream but that doesn't make it undesirable.

Certainly a laudable aim but, given the EU's oft-repeated statement that life for the UK will be worse outside than it is inside, I'm not sure it's a scenario they'd be likely to entertain. However, even if they did the question would be what price they'd extract for continuing to be able to trade tariff free with them? I suspect it might be one we'd baulk at paying although that's not to say it shouldn't be explored.

Doesn't feel like we're anywhere close to discussing that sort of thing though; 15 months after the referendum result - and 6 months after invoking Article 50 - it seems like we're still struggling to even get past first base on things like citizens rights...

[BnB]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Doesn't feel like we're anywhere close to discussing that sort of thing though; 15 months after the referendum result - and 6 months after invoking Article 50 - it seems like we're still struggling to even get past first base on things like citizens rights...

Progress is certainly glacial

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Lobb

It's the final date we can be a member of the EU. We cease to be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. We have full control of people movement. We will not be part of the single market. We will not be part of the EU customs union. There is no way back.

So far more than a technicality

Lobb You wrote this a month ago (27/8/17 post 16) in this thread, with your usual level of certainty.

Now even the Tories are proposing a transitional deal beyond this 'final date' which contradicts all four of those bold points. Do you accept that you've got this wrong?

[BnB]

Originally Posted by Lobb

Indeed. Nothings changed. Don't forget that the legal mechanism of article 50 means that by 29.03.2019 we will have left the EU. The critical point that people forget when talking about any "transitional" period is that period will occur whilst we are NOT members of the EU.

But, during a transitional period when we are no longer EU members, we will still be subject to the ECJ, free movement will persist for the period and so will the customs union. At least that's what our government are proposing. You insisted these would all end on 23/3/19.

You'd do better to admit that that you were one part right and three parts wrong than to make yourself, an obviously highly intelligent adult, appear only a quarter of your age to match being only a quarter correct.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Lobb

TBH I'm extremely relaxed about a transitional period. IF it happens. The critical thing (as above) is that the leglistive agenda does not change. By 29.03.2019 we will be ex members. This is important as it is a one way street from there on. No readmission to the EU. We are out for good (in both senses).

Hmm, but it isn't over until the fat lady sings and I suspect there's a majority in Westminster who are spending most of their time thinking of ways to shut her up without making it look like they've gone against the wishes of the people. I might be proved wrong but personally I'm not convinced Brexit will happen....

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Lobb

You'd need all 27 EU states to unanimously agree. Then you'd need an Act of UK parliament to stop Brexit. Not a cat in hell's chance.

I reckon the other 27 would be more than happy if one of the largest net contributors to the EU budget did a U-turn; they'd no doubt seek to remove some of our current opt-outs and exemptions as a price for "re-admission" but I couldn't see them turning us away.

As for our politicians in Westminster, I don't trust them an inch. The vast majority were (and are) Remainers and if they can find a way to derail Brexit I've little doubt they will. The big dilemma will be for Labour as they'll risk alienating a lot of their traditional working class support if they're seen to be frustrating Brexit; however, if they calculate any loss of traditional support will be replaced by younger Labour voters from the cities I'm sure they'll take their chance.

So all in all I don't think it's the foregone conclusion you seem to believe!

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Lobb

You'd need all 27 EU states to unanimously agree. Then you'd need an Act of UK parliament to stop Brexit. Not a cat in hell's chance.

The lady doth protest just a little too much

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Participated in loads of these Brexit threads in the past, but really can't be arsed to read all this one.

After the utter chaos of the last few months, and the prolonged agony of the split in the future, anyone remaining that still thinks Brexit is a great idea needs admitting to the Priory.......