[Propagator]

That is an excellent review, thanks for posting. I don't believe you are alone in noticing that the F30 is more softly sprung than the E90.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...66&postcount=3

Even at the initial unveil, Car and Driver noted that the F30 was softer than the E90, with the sports package. Although every other magazine said the opposite, I had a suspicion that C&D was being more truthful than the others.

I'd love to hear more from folks that went from E9X to F30 once they spend enough time with their new cars to get over the initial excitement and/or buyer's remorse.

[E36toF30]

Originally Posted by jgrasty

You failed to put the car into park.

Yeah, true. Put it in park first, or else hold the start/stop button for a few seconds to turn off the car completely.

To the OP, I think you would find that a 335i Sportline 6MT erases most of your concerns. Most reviews indicate that sportline cars ride a little better than an E9x with sport package and have overall very similar handling. That said, there are quite a few people that have said the F30 feels a little bit floatier or has a little more body roll than its E9x counterpart. As far as how loud the engine is, BMW did make an effort to mute the sound of the 328i more than the 335i (probably wise since people don't really want to hear a 4 cylinder in a luxury car). The F30 335i may still be a bit quieter than yours, but I think everyone agrees that it sounds at least as good as in the E9x. Lastly, the manual transmission gives you a little more control over the start-stop system (without turning it off) because it only activates if you put the car in neutral, and starts up again when you push in the clutch.

Also, I totally agree with you about BMW's packaging. While I don't mind the interior of the sportline personally, I still think it's bull**** how you can't get sport seats or sport suspension on the other lines in the US (you can in Europe).

[matt_435xi]

Originally Posted by simianspeedster

The real question -- one I've been asking myself a lot lately -- is this: if the F30 Sport Line is not sporty enough, what car is? My choices are limited because I only want a manual transmission and I prefer rear wheel drive. I'd consider an all wheel drive car, but never front wheel drive. So that eliminates Mercedes and others and leaves Audi, BMW and Infiniti in the sports sedan/coupe market. Having driven all 3 models (albeit a non-sport G37 sedan), I can't say any are likely to drive better than an F30 Sport Line, but I haven't driven one yet.

sounds like you either have to modify cars (suspension, springs/dampeners, etc.) or go step up to the true sport models - M3, AMG C-class, S4/5. just my 2 cents.

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by matt_335Ci

sounds like you either have to modify cars (suspension, springs/dampeners, etc.) or go step up to the true sport models - M3, AMG C-class, S4/5. just my 2 cents.

AMG cars are automatic only, so those are out. The BMW M and Audi S cars are also getting so heavy and thirsty -- I sure hope that trend abates, if not reverses over time, but it's still an arms race right now.

Fun side note: when I was shopping for my 335i, I also wanted to test drive the S4. My local dealer had one that perfectly met my needs -- right color, right options and a manual -- but they wouldn't let me drive it. They said they didn't want to put miles on it and someone would buy it without having to drive it first (which is nuts in my book), so I walked away from that. A-holes.

Sadly, I still wish I could buy a new 330i that weighs 3,300 lbs. with a 250HP N52, sports suspension, sports seats, a killer factory stereo and little else. When the time is right, I'll test drive a Sports Line 328i and a Sports Line 335i with limited options and I'll hope that it is comparable to my current car.

I'll also seriously consider a Golf R20 if they're available next summer. Some may scoff, but it's a nice overall package and the weight is around 3,400 lbs. I had a MKIV R32 back in the day, which was fun, and everyone says the R20 is a far better car.

I'm still eager to hear feedback from anyone who has replace an E9x Sport/M-Sport for an F30 Sport Line. Anyone?

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by E36toF30

Yeah, true. Put it in park first, or else hold the start/stop button for a few seconds to turn off the car completely.

To the OP, I think you would find that a 335i Sportline 6MT erases most of your concerns. Most reviews indicate that sportline cars ride a little better than an E9x with sport package and have overall very similar handling. That said, there are quite a few people that have said the F30 feels a little bit floatier or has a little more body roll than its E9x counterpart. As far as how loud the engine is, BMW did make an effort to mute the sound of the 328i more than the 335i (probably wise since people don't really want to hear a 4 cylinder in a luxury car). The F30 335i may still be a bit quieter than yours, but I think everyone agrees that it sounds at least as good as in the E9x. Lastly, the manual transmission gives you a little more control over the start-stop system (without turning it off) because it only activates if you put the car in neutral, and starts up again when you push in the clutch.

Also, I totally agree with you about BMW's packaging. While I don't mind the interior of the sportline personally, I still think it's bull**** how you can't get sport seats or sport suspension on the other lines in the US (you can in Europe).

This is very helpful info -- thanks.

[matt_435xi]

Originally Posted by simianspeedster

I'm still eager to hear feedback from anyone who has replace an E9x Sport/M-Sport for an F30 Sport Line. Anyone?

I had an e46 325Ci sport pkg, e90 328i sport pkg, e92 335i sport pkg + 6MT and waiting on a F30 335i sport line. the steering is definetly lighter than all of my previous BMWs, but I was happy with the F30 seats, suspension and power. Definetly put a smile on my face when driving spirited on my test drive, and I think I felt something move in my pants.

[MacAttackBMW]

Originally Posted by matt_335Ci

I had an e46 325Ci sport pkg, e90 328i sport pkg, e92 335i sport pkg + 6MT and waiting on a F30 335i sport line. the steering is definetly lighter than all of my previous BMWs, but I was happy with the F30 seats, suspension and power. Definetly put a smile on my face when driving spirited on my test drive, and I think I felt something move in my pants.

I am a die hard enthusiast however I'm willing to be impartial (owned an Acura TL, Lexus GS, E90 335i, Toyota Tundra :P, and many others)

My 335i will be here in two weeks. Give me a solid week to take it up to Big Bear ( 7000ft mountain climb) and I'll give you an opinion of a 335i with M Sport suspension with active steering vs. a E90 sport luxury without extra bells.

[doublevanosrc]

Simianspeedster your review just furthers the fact that the best driver's BMWs are past us. I have yet to drive the F30(just sat in one) but i have driven the other current ones(5,6,7) and they are just not fun anymore. Several magazine reviews have mention that the E90 felt more planted or something along that line. I'm sure its a great car but it's less sporty than it's predecessor just like the E90 is less sporty than the E46 and so on, I guess it's all part of evolution. I got a feeling BMW will make some minor adjustments for MY13 or 14 along with reshuffling of the packages which seem less a la carte. I would recommend you just wait a year or so.

[mikikuki7]

oh god! I hate the squeaky noise coming from the middle of the dashboard or wherever it is! I HATE IT! I paid 59k for that 335i and that is something that shouldn't be happening! I HATE it with PASSION!

[E36toF30]

Originally Posted by mikikuki7

oh god! I hate the squeaky noise coming from the middle of the dashboard or wherever it is! I HATE IT! I paid 59k for that 335i and that is something that shouldn't be happening! I HATE it with PASSION!

Wow, yeah that would piss me off too. Did you have the dealer look at it?

Also, did you mean to put a smiley face at the end of that?

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by simianspeedster

when I pulled into the garage and reached to turn off the car, the engine stopped just as I was pressing the button so my button press started the engine again. It served as a reminder that the car's electronics lack context so they make the driver overthink.

THAT would make me crazy....too much technology, not enough common sense.

[cstavaru]

Unfortunately, a suspension is much more than just the springs and dampers. The suspension is also about anti roll-bars and rubber bushings connecting the subframe to the chassis. Car and Driver complained about "too much rubber between the driver and the road". If BMW selected their anti rollbars and subframe bushings too soft, you can change the springs and shocks with rock hard ones and still have the car not handling properly and misbehaving.

In e90 world it is common practice to replace the subframe bushings to M3 subframe bushings (which I did). It makes a significant difference on the car's handling abilities, and enables you to use lighter, more performance-oriented non-runflat tires and still keep the sharp handling.

[BMWDAD]

Originally Posted by simianspeedster

I wouldn't rule out the F30 without testing driving a Sport Line model, but I can't recommend the Luxury or Modern lines if the driving dynamics really matter to you (and I'm guessing they do).

The real question -- one I've been asking myself a lot lately -- is this: if the F30 Sport Line is not sporty enough, what car is? My choices are limited because I only want a manual transmission and I prefer rear wheel drive. I'd consider an all wheel drive car, but never front wheel drive. So that eliminates Mercedes and others and leaves Audi, BMW and Infiniti in the sports sedan/coupe market. Having driven all 3 models (albeit a non-sport G37 sedan), I can't say any are likely to drive better than an F30 Sport Line, but I haven't driven one yet.

2013-2014 car search:

BMW 228 coupe
BMW 328 coupe
(both hopefully sporty enough to want me to upgrade from my 335i coupe/sport/6mt) if not

Subaru BRZ
Redesigned Cayman
Redesigned Golf GTI
Redesigned Miata ND

[Ron Scott]

Originally Posted by E36toF30

To the OP, I think you would find that a 335i Sportline 6MT erases most of your concerns.

This is where I'm coming out on the debate. 335 over the 328.

BMW has probably done great things with a mass-produced four-cylinder car, and no doubt they did so kicking and screaming with the weight of regulations on mileage and emissions on them. But if you're looking for the experience we got used to in the three series, 335 is going to be your best bet--and waiting a few months to order the 2013 model isn't a bad idea either…

[Q4P]

Somehow u read my mind. I felt the exact same annoyances after driving the car... I wanted to love it but couldn't as much as my E90.

[RASHID007]

I've ordered a 2012 335i but haven't driven it yet, so I could be mistaken, but I would assume that each remote is tied to a memory seat position so if you use your own remote to unlock the seat would already be in your correct further back position when you get in.

That's how my '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee and '06 Acura TL worked.

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by RASHID007

I've ordered a 2012 335i but haven't driven it yet, so I could be mistaken, but I would assume that each remote is tied to a memory seat position so if you use your own remote to unlock the seat would already be in your correct further back position when you get in.

That's how my '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee and '06 Acura TL worked.

I know I could go through the trouble to program a separate remote and all that, but I don't drive my wife's car that often and she and her keys are always with me when I do so I don't keep her GIANT new 2nd keyfob on my keychain (they really are huge now).

The driver's seat memory function has dedicated buttons for two positions -- it should just work when I press one or the other regardless of which key we have with us. If seat position can only be tied to a keyfob, why have the memory buttons at all? The car should just remember the last position for each key.

Too much technology, not enough common sense IMO.

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Unfortunately, a suspension is much more than just the springs and dampers. The suspension is also about anti roll-bars and rubber bushings connecting the subframe to the chassis. Car and Driver complained about "too much rubber between the driver and the road". If BMW selected their anti rollbars and subframe bushings too soft, you can change the springs and shocks with rock hard ones and still have the car not handling properly and misbehaving.

In e90 world it is common practice to replace the subframe bushings to M3 subframe bushings (which I did). It makes a significant difference on the car's handling abilities, and enables you to use lighter, more performance-oriented non-runflat tires and still keep the sharp handling.

Yeah, I totally get that I could swap suspension bits and get just what I want, but 1) I usually lease these cars, so that complicates significant personalization, and 2) Don't get me wrong, but I really shouldn't have to change suspension components even after paying $50K for a car with Sport or M-Sport or whatever.

At this point, I'm most interested in seeing what experiences people have when the "factory aftermarket" options start showing up on cars.

[Casey 5]

Great review.

Like you--I was in the last generation 335i--an 07' E90 335i Sparkling Graphite fitted with Auto, Sports, Premium, Comfort Access, but no Nav. etc.

I did test drive the F30 335i/Sport with the 19's. I must say I left the test drive perplexed and...yes...disappointed.

In short, I felt the investment BMW made in the new F30 335i was less about an improved driving experience over my E90 335i and more about a longer list of technology options....all with a price tag!!

Putting that aside...I simply do not think those coming out of E90/E92 335i's with sports packages will be "blown away" by the F30 335i or even "prefer" it over their current ride.

I left the test drive...happy to get back in my E90 335i.

I ended up going over to Audi to test drive the S4 (different in all regards to an A4/A5) and found MORE of what I was looking for....a car focused on sport driving!!!

You cannot get an S4 in 3 flavors....Sport, Luxury, or Modern (like the new 335i)....an S4 only gets served up one way....SPORT!!If you don't want a sport driving experience...DON'T GET an S4!! Get a 335i Luxury or Modern edition.

I think the problem at BMW right now can be summed up in one word "FOCUS".

They are trying to make each series all things to all people....look what they did to the 5 and 6 series....PASSION DRIVING OUT....MASS APPEAL IN. Has anyone even seen a new 6 on the road?

Now we have a 335i in 3 Flavors? Sport/Luxury/Modern? Is that the future of the Ultimate Driving Machine?

The 335i is not a luxury car, not a modern car (whatever that means)...its a drivers car....

Unfortunately....now to keep it both simple and real...get behind the wheel of an S4...or wait for the M3/M4.

I needed wheels so I went S4.

It was so easy....the way getting a 335i used to be.

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by Ron Scott

This is where I'm coming out on the debate. 335 over the 328.

BMW has probably done great things with a mass-produced four-cylinder car, and no doubt they did so kicking and screaming with the weight of regulations on mileage and emissions on them. But if you're looking for the experience we got used to in the three series, 335 is going to be your best bet--and waiting a few months to order the 2013 model isn't a bad idea either…

I have until next Spring to order something, so I'm in no rush. I'm also less concerned about the choice of engine than I am about the standard Sports/M-Sports suspension being a letdown. I'd probably take an N20 over the N55 just to save the 150-ish additional pounds, most of which is over the front axle.

Also, and this may make me sound like a heretic, but I'd rather have a car that's slightly underpowered so I can wind out the engine a bit more when I want to have fun without getting into serious trouble. The N55 is so powerful that you don't get a chance to really wind it out on public roads unless you're a nut. This is what I miss most about my Z4 Coupe and its wonderful 255HP N52 -- the rush and sound of the NA inline 6 pulling to redline was intoxicating. Even though it would be slower and more thirsty, I'd take that engine over the N55 if BMW still offered it.

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by matt_335Ci

I had an e46 325Ci sport pkg, e90 328i sport pkg, e92 335i sport pkg + 6MT and waiting on a F30 335i sport line. the steering is definetly lighter than all of my previous BMWs, but I was happy with the F30 seats, suspension and power. Definetly put a smile on my face when driving spirited on my test drive, and I think I felt something move in my pants.

Originally Posted by MacAttackBMW

I am a die hard enthusiast however I'm willing to be impartial (owned an Acura TL, Lexus GS, E90 335i, Toyota Tundra :P, and many others)

My 335i will be here in two weeks. Give me a solid week to take it up to Big Bear ( 7000ft mountain climb) and I'll give you an opinion of a 335i with M Sport suspension with active steering vs. a E90 sport luxury without extra bells.

Congrats to both of you -- I'll be eager to hear your experiences once you've settled into your new cars. I'm sure the newness will put big smiles on your faces for a long while. Once you get a feel for your respective cars in relation to the E9x, I'll be all ears!

[Mrcarcrazy]

good review. I have to laugh about you wanting to turn the HUD off...(since you're wearing polarized shades). AFAIK no HUD's work w/ polarized shades since it is essentially "intentional glare". and as you know if you've purchased polarized shades, they reduce glare...

some of your complaints could have been eliminated w/ going to the sport line vs lux line...I know why you didn't...just pointing out the obvious. (I too hate the forced "lines").

The non sport seats are terrible...but IMHO they always have been.