[otay]

Jalopnik
http://jalopnik.com/the-2017-jaguar-...est-1782004733

Been thinking about these, and am interested to see more reviews. He didn't get to drive the RWD 6-cylinder, but some of the impressions are worth noting.
- Steering numbness...whaddya know?
- V6 supercharged...least aurally pleasing...

Also, I think I had heard that the shifter was a rotary knob, but didn't really think about it until now. I know the XE and my 335i have paddles, but when I shift manually, I almost always use the console stick/lever. Maybe just habit from my manual days. Anyway, unless everything else was better than my 335i, I don't think I want a car with a rotary transmission knob.

[insanecoder]

It IS a nice looking car but the more I look at it l see .. mustang.. I dunno its just me I guess.
Electric steering .. what do you expect?
XE has shifter paddles as well
I've always wondered how I'd drive if the damn knob got stuck as it rose up from the console.. I mean it looks cool but I dont want to wait for that damn thing to rise to start driving.. its unneccesary novelty IMO
The higher HP V6 is nice and the supercharger = no turbo lag at all
..but the B58 is MUCH more punchier and feels under-rated at 320hp

@end of the day I am glad I went with the 340i

[BMW335iOn18s]

This is what I've been saying all along!!

AWD has NO place in a sport sedan because it ruins suspension and steering feel. It's always been this way. Even with hydraulic steering racks.

Part of the reason F30s got bad reviews is that people and journalists were driving xdrive models...

RWD models are very different.

[the_phew]

Is Jag still using that supercharged V6 that's just a V8 block with two pistons removed?


If so, fuggettabout it. That sort of 'engineering' tells me all I need to know about Jaguar.

[KGB_123_99]

The XE is definitely an interesting alternative to BMW. Not sure if it's better or worse but it is definitely different. It's nice if you want to stand out because these days it seems like everyone and their dog has a 3 series. Once they pop in a V8, and they definitely will, it becomes much more interesting.

Another good review:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/jag...y-been-beaten/

There's also something about British cars, can't quite put my finger out it but it's very appealing.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

There's also something about British cars, can't quite put my finger out it but it's very appealing.

That 'something' is British Racing Green. I'd almost buy a car with that absurd Frankenstein V6 (née V8) just to get that color:


My dad had a '63 Lotus Elite in BRG. Prone to spontaneous fires, but gorgeous car nonetheless (not his, but it looked similar to this)

[KGB_123_99]

Originally Posted by the_phew

Is Jag still using that supercharged V6 that's just a V8 block with two pistons removed?


If so, fuggettabout it. That sort of 'engineering' tells me all I need to know about Jaguar.

It's just a way to satisfy the bean-counters. There's nothing wrong with having a longer crankshaft. If we go down this road, BMW also has a list of its own "engineering marvels":
Plastic radiators and water pump impellers (luckily rare these days, lesson learned)
Leaky Vanos seals
Active sound
B58 timing chain at the rear of the engine

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

It's just a way to satisfy the bean-counters. There's nothing wrong with having a longer crankshaft.

It's not just a longer crankshaft. It's a friggin' V8 block! They just cap off the unused cylinders. Which is why this engine weighs more than JLR's n/a V8. For fvck's sake Jag, at least chop off the unused cylinders like every other lazy V6 out there.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

This is what I've been saying all along!!

AWD has NO place in a sport sedan because it ruins suspension and steering feel. It's always been this way. Even with hydraulic steering racks.

Part of the reason F30s got bad reviews is that people and journalists were driving xdrive models...

RWD models are very different.

I only agree with you regarding cars that are designed as RWD but the manufacturer then adds in AWD to gain sales in multi weather parts of the world.

When a car is designed as an AWD from the beginning, then it's performance is enhanced by having AWD.
Examples would be:
Audi
Subaru
Mitsubishi

Some would say those are FWD cars with AWD added, oh but they would be trying to lead you astray, so just ignore them.
An AWD quattro A4 easily out handles and out performs it's low selling FWD variant.
And AWD 3 series is still, even if marginally, a better handling and better driving car in RWD compared to AWD.

Accel times generally go to the cars with more traction, thus AWD has the off the line advantage. However, that accel advantage starts to drop as the speeds rise beyond 60mph and by 90-100mph the RWD is right there and it's lower level of drive line friction will let it pull on the AWD version.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I only agree with you regarding cars that are designed as RWD but the manufacturer then adds in AWD to gain sales in multi weather parts of the world.

When a car is designed as an AWD from the beginning, then it's performance is enhanced by having AWD.
Examples would be:
Audi
Subaru
Mitsubishi

Some would say those are FWD cars with AWD added, oh but they would be trying to lead you astray, so just ignore them.
An AWD quattro A4 easily out handles and out performs it's low selling FWD variant.
And AWD 3 series is still, even if marginally, a better handling and better driving car in RWD compared to AWD.

Accel times generally go to the cars with more traction, thus AWD has the off the line advantage. However, that accel advantage starts to drop as the speeds rise beyond 60mph and by 90-100mph the RWD is right there and it's lower level of drive line friction will let it pull on the AWD version.

That's what I meant. Just curious, do you not consider them to be FWD based because there is a permanent power split?

[otay]

I looove green, too. Jealous of this guy...

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

The XE is definitely an interesting alternative to BMW. Not sure if it's better or worse but it is definitely different. It's nice if you want to stand out because these days it seems like everyone and their dog has a 3 series. Once they pop in a V8, and they definitely will, it becomes much more interesting.

Another good review:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/jag...y-been-beaten/

There's also something about British cars, can't quite put my finger out it but it's very appealing.

James Bond

[goj]

Very interesting review. Not at all what others said

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

That's what I meant. Just curious, do you not consider them to be FWD based because there is a permanent power split?

For Subaru their cars are all AWD, except for the Subyota collaboration, so they are truly AWD design from the get go.
Mitsubishi Evo is another AWD design that is based on a FWD platform, but the Evo is a special and true AWD design.

In the early 90's to '99 Mits had a collaboration with Chrysler/Eagle, it was called "Diamond Star". The variants were Mits-Eclipse, Eagle-Talon, and Chrysler-Laser. They were pretty much Mitsubishi cars where Chrysler/Eagle did some exterior body alterations for some variation. Interiors were identical.
Those came in FWD and AWD with NA or turbo engines. Fun cars to drive, even the FWD turbo, which I had. I had a 1990 Laser RS Turbo FWD 5spd.
That was a handful on boost. The AWD cars had much better off the line grip. Overall handling however was different between the FWD and AWD, but I don't know recall the AWD being that much better other than it could be induced into a 4 wheel drift.

With Audi they build the FWD platform, but that platform seems to be more of a chopped AWD system rather than a FWD with AWD added.
AWD Audi's easily outperform, accel and handling, their FWD counterparts.
For the most part same goes for VW, and of course the whole VW company shares parts and platforms.
But for me, I don't regard AWD Audi's as FWD cars with AWD added. Audi sells more AWD than FWD. I think they keep FWD around to help with corporate MPG.

Up until a few years back both BMW and MB were adding AWD to their RWD platforms so that they could sell in areas where many people were too afraid of RWD in the snow. Many of those drivers needed all weather traction more than best performance. BMW has upped their AWD game as the newest generation system is very good and quite intelligent and adept. Still, it's adept at providing and transferring power in bad weather or bad road conditions. I don't feel that they have caught Audi, but then Audi has been doing performance AWD for a very long time.
BMW doesn't even offer a proper sport suspension on the X drive variants, and that tells me that they too don't consider their AWD to be a performance oriented system. I know some will say this can be fixed in the aftermarket, but then that can be said of any car.
I'm sure BMW could build an AWD with higher performance, but maybe they don't want to. They've been doing performance RWD for a long time.
The X drives are nice, but they don't feel as responsive as the RWD versions with sport suspensions.

That's why I don't like the 3 series X-drive compared to the Audi S4.
The best handling A4 is the S4 with AWD. The best handling 3/4 series is the RWD w/sport pkg/suspension.
The S4 beats the 3 series X-drive because that's not BMW's best handling non M 3/4 series.

[S4NoMore]

Originally Posted by RPM90

That's why I don't like the 3 series X-drive compared to the Audi S4.
The best handling A4 is the S4 with AWD. The best handling 3/4 series is the RWD w/sport pkg/suspension.
The S4 beats the 3 series X-drive because that's not BMW's best handling non M 3/4 series.

You're very flawed in that analysis. Just because the 3 isn't top of the line doesn't mean it's handicapped in handling relative to the range-topping Audi.

Also the S4 might ride subjectively better than a 3 with AWD, but it most certainly will not handle better. There's nothing that can be done to compensate for the Audi's lack of balance, though their multi-link front ends are good.

No matter what, every BMW is better balanced and will feel better to drive through corners. It took Audi until 2008 to improve from 62F/38R weight distribution, and they've still only reached 55/45 these days. Every Audi is handicapped because the front axle and differential are behind the engine with their beloved quattro system. Audi fans are crying about the transverse haldex takeover and abandonment of Torsen center diff systems, but hey it might be better for balance.

BMW makes some geometry compromises with xDrive to package the front drive axles, hence why the handling is better with RWD, but the engine is still on the front axle and not in front of it. xDrive 340s still achieve 52/48. The gold standard is the RWD BMW essence - nearly 50/50. I really love my manual 328i because it goes a little further even, 49.2F. 340i RWD is about 50.5F.

This is the critical difference which plays a big role in steering response, "turn-in," understeer etc.

I studied vehicle dynamics as an engineering student and have driven BMWs since. This is why my handle is "S4NoMore" - balance is everything in my opinion.

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by otay

I looove green, too. Jealous of this guy...

Individ Color. Cost: $5,000.00.

My local BMW dealer had a British Racing Green M5 ordered that way. Gorgeous...then the guy changes his mind and backs out of the deal after adding another $10K in audio enhancements lol. Sticker on the car was like $135K.......

[goj]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

It's just a way to satisfy the bean-counters. There's nothing wrong with having a longer crankshaft. If we go down this road, BMW also has a list of its own "engineering marvels":
Plastic radiators and water pump impellers (luckily rare these days, lesson learned)
Leaky Vanos seals
Active sound
B58 timing chain at the rear of the engine

I'm struggling to see how active sound fits into your argument