[Robin_NL]

I think many Audis including this facelifted A4 look like souped up Volkswagens.

Elegant but boring nontheless.

Cheers
Robin(ex Audi S3 owner)

[Firefly6]

The photography doesn't match well for a comparison, but my impression is the Audi looks bland, BMW looks more aggressive.

[umpqua5]

Originally Posted by sf_loft

Here's a pic I took at a local Audi meetup.

Exactly! Look at that package. Boring? Not an evolution in design? I think not.

Could the difference in F30 and A4 backers be why some people choose a solid color elegant shirt with no logos and some need to have a giant Armani Exchange written all over it?

[Chu2k]

LOL S4 and A4... Pretty much the same thing!! I liked the pre-facelift A4 more... I think the F30 wins here but none of them are gorgeous anyways, like comparing bad to worst.

The wheels are veeery small on the M-Sport!!

[Raikkonen]

No one should kid themselves; Audi is an engineering and design powerhouse, exactly like BMW.

As someone stated previously, it's different strokes for different folks. It just boils down to what you prefer in terms of design, driver involvement, etc.

Even though I'll be purchasing an F30, I have nothing but respect for every new Audi I see on the road.

[XC]

I can't even recognize any changes made on the audi! For me those A4s has been exactly the same for a lot of years - I don't remember how many. Plus you can buy a good 'ol A4 in the form of a SEAT. Geee

Besides, BMW's interiors feel so much more upscale... I have never understood why many people reckon audi's interiors as top notch. They feel so... volskwagenish...

[jon328i]

both looked ok to me...more pics please!

[dmz]

sf,

You need to take a chill pill. You do realize you are in a BMW forum and by definition, the taste of the members here is towards the BMW design. If they like Audi they would be in an Audi forum. There is no need for you to keep repeating that no body sat on a Audi. I think most BMW buyer probably test drove an Audi at some point when they were in the market for their cars. I for one test drive 5 Audi in the last 6 month and liked some of their designs and did not like a single one of the how they drive. If we all have the same taste, this would be a ver boring world. So chill and let it be.

Originally Posted by sf_loft

It's similar to e90 and e92's LCI mid-cycle facelift. New lights, bumpers, and small interior tweaks. To the non-enthusiast it's pretty much transparent. To those who actually own and know about the cars, the interior is probably the most welcoming change. Gloss black instrument surrounds, RS style gear shifter, RS style flat bottom steering wheel, and the latest gen MMI with google maps and wi-fi hotspot.

I take it you never sat in an Audi. I've owned both and if you compare the silk nappa leather to BMW's only leather option, you'll see why people think it's more upscale. Interior fit and finish is another + for Audi. I owned two different 335 e92's and both squeaked and creaked 1 week after I drove it off the dealership. Driving the car also feels very buttoned down, there's a smoothness personality with Audi's that you can't find in many cars. Some people don't like this because it doesn't feel raw enough, but I find it as a balance between sport and luxury. If you like a harsh ride (RFTs), some road noise, and thick rough leather or opt for the pleather option, then BMW is the better choice. But again, looks are subjective and what you think is upscale may be seen as average to others.

[M3V10]

Audi made the A4 uglier. pre-fl was fine. f30 looks more aggressive imo

[Drivaar]

Wait... so the whole point about the European safety standards requiring the horrendous cut line at the front of the hood cannot be correct, since the Audi's hood looks just fine...

???

[soapsuds]

Originally Posted by Justin Spelman

Sorry but of course you think that as an e46 owner

Put an e46 sedan right next to an f30 and it instantly looks dated. It still looks good and has aged real well for sure but let's get real, the f30 is 14 years of design advance.

Former e46 owner, now e90 owner. The e46 no longer looks like a modern car, but I'd say when judged in the context of their times, I agree with the OP that the e46 was the peak. The audis started really looking good a few years ago, but I think they've peaked now as well. I'd love more smaller RWD sedan options, maybe Caddilac won't screw up the ATS.

[pitt03]

Originally Posted by sf_loft

I think that Audi's design still stands up to the F30 and in no way it looks dated as an e90 vs. F30.

It absolutely looks bland and dated. The only aggressive aspects of the whole car are the headlights. Nothing wrong with that as long as you like bland looking cars.

I have plenty of time behind Audis by the way; my wife worked for their corporate finance headquarters. She and every one of her coworkers got killer deals on Audi and VW leasing, so for years we always had a new Audi in the driveway.

Now that she's left that company, I will probably never buy another Audi or VW again. Every Audi we owned had electrical issues; as did almost every one of her coworkers' cars. This was just something that was accepted as the norm at the corporate headquarters. Not cool.

[pitt03]

Originally Posted by sf_loft

Electrical gremlins, you can say this about all German cars. I lemoned my 335 because of 4 HPFP. My co-worker lemoned his 335 for various electrical issues. I'm off BMW because of the experiences I've had, two 335's in less than 3 years, but am not ruling them out with a bias. Almost 2 years on my Audi and knock on wood, it's been flawless.

Like I said before Looks are subjective.

I get that certain cars tend to have problem areas and I'm not blind to the issues the 335s have had. These issues, however are usually a small percentage of overall model production numbers. My experience with Audi after dealing with people at their corporate offices showed me that their problems weren't due to simple outlier issues - there are real problems with the Audi/VW brand and it shows in the attitudes of their employees. I was told that it is completely normal for a car's check engine light to stay on forever - "That's just how these cars are; nothing to worry about". The only reason we kept buying them is because we got them so damn cheap and they were always in warranty. As a regular consumer these days, Audi or VW would have to come up with something pretty bad ass to make me throw the dice in their direction.

You're completely right about looks being subjective. The Audi looks nice. Nice in the way that a Town Car looks nice; but it will never be mistaken for an aggressive sports sedan on design alone.

I like what Top Gear had to say about the A4:
"Are a nice pair of slacks cool? No. Do they do the job? Yes. The new A4 is a nice pair of slacks" and "It's brilliant. But somehow so boring that I keep forgetting where I parked it. A wonderfully engineered bit of kit that still manages to be just that little bit boring."

[pitt03]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

LOL BMW problems you write it off as small percentage while you say Audi problems is in ALL cars just because your wifes cars had problems and some of her friends. Hey all my friends 335i had hpfp problems and also they had electrical problems also. Read the e90 threads and if you still think BMW is reliable you must definitely be a fanboy.
So does this say BMW is less reliable than Audi? Nope just means that all German cars are not reliable!

That's not what I said at all, and they weren't just some of my wife's friends. These were employees of Audi corporate HQ; hundreds of brand new Audis rolling around daily and a place where your car was switched out every year or whenever a new car model came along. The volume of new vehicles rolling into that place should have had a similar defect percentage as other brands, but from what I saw it appeared over half of the vehicles had some sort of perpetual problem; including the A4, S4 and Jetta that we owned while she worked there.

What I said was: the attitude towards the issues at the corporate level was ridiculous. All cars have problems - I get that. From what I saw at Audi corporate was they recognized their cars had serious electrical issues, but they blew off any concerns as "that's just how cars are". In their eyes, if you as the buyer purchase an Audi, you are doing so with the understanding that certain parts of the car will not ever work right. That's where I take issue with their cars. Granted, that was three years ago; their attitude may have changed.

I'm about as far from fanboy as you can get - I've owned vehicles from several brands - I don't believe in 'allegiance' to any particular brand be it electronics, cars, motorcycles or clothing. I actually used to like Audi until I was [un]lucky enough to own several and had a look at the company's attitude toward their vehicles.

My comments of "Audi's corporate attitude towards defects is crap" and "my experiences with Audi electrical issues will prevent me from purchasing future Audi/ VWs" does not equate "BMWs are perfect without defect". You might want to read up on logical fallacies.

I don't know BMW's corporate attitude toward defects like this so I can't comment. The only thing I can comment on is what I saw at Audi HQ a few years ago. I didn't like the fact that I was told to learn to live with the defects as they were something that all Audis had. I felt like Will Ferrel in 'Zoolander', surrounded by crazy people. Here were senior managers at Audi telling me that defects weren't just okay, they were common and to be expected in a brand new 'luxury' car. Just live with it, they told me.



You can bet if BMW ever tells me something like that, I'll be moving on to something else. If I had gone through 4x HPFP like sf_loft, I would have done the same. His bad experiences with BMW caused him to switch to Audi; mine were vice versa. If I hadn't been privy to Audi's corporate attitude, I probably would have written it off as an outlier and maybe given them a second chance. I'm normally pretty easy to please.

I'm glad to hear sf_loft's A4 is working out for him. I hope Audi steps up their game and gives the rest of the industry more competition. As a consumer, it's always better to have more choice and it forces the other brands to improve their products as well. If Audi makes a product that provides me what I'm looking for as a consumer, I'm willing to give them a shot. We'll just have to see.

[Kayani_1]

The interior seems to be a tie in those pics. But exterior wise hands down BMW looks more aggressive and sporty then the Audi.

[FstopBMW]

the S4 looks like a tame house cat compared to the F30 Msport. The taillights on the F30, although not exciting look way more enthusiastic than the A4/S4... The Audi rear lights have a sad and sleepy kind of look.

[pitt03]

Originally Posted by sf_loft

Don't insult me I own an S4 not an A4.

Apologies...I should have paid more attention To Audi's credit, I've heard nothing but good things about the new S4 from my contacts over there. I just wish Audi did more to set the S4 apart visually from the A4.

[Farout Bimmer]

The F30s hood is way too long. The Audi is very reserved looking....and boring.

[XC]

Originally Posted by sf_loft

It's similar to e90 and e92's LCI mid-cycle facelift. New lights, bumpers, and small interior tweaks. To the non-enthusiast it's pretty much transparent. To those who actually own and know about the cars, the interior is probably the most welcoming change. Gloss black instrument surrounds, RS style gear shifter, RS style flat bottom steering wheel, and the latest gen MMI with google maps and wi-fi hotspot.

I take it you never sat in an Audi. I've owned both and if you compare the silk nappa leather to BMW's only leather option, you'll see why people think it's more upscale. Interior fit and finish is another + for Audi. I owned two different 335 e92's and both squeaked and creaked 1 week after I drove it off the dealership. Driving the car also feels very buttoned down, there's a smoothness personality with Audi's that you can't find in many cars. Some people don't like this because it doesn't feel raw enough, but I find it as a balance between sport and luxury. If you like a harsh ride (RFTs), some road noise, and thick rough leather or opt for the pleather option, then BMW is the better choice. But again, looks are subjective and what you think is upscale may be seen as average to others.

I understand your point of view, but as someone who worked for the industry, and particularly at BMW, let me tell you that the amount of research made regarding the feel and textures inside BMW cabins is mindblowing. It is not only about putting some nappa here and there, is the whole concept of haptics (more on haptic technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haptic_technology). I do not own an audi, but I've had the chance of driving every single model. And you simply can't duplicate the feel you get when driving a BMW. You can actually feel its superb engineering. On the other hand, that smothness personality you are talking about you can get driving a jetta, or a passat, and that can be good or bad, depending what side of the scale you are.

And that squeaking and creaking you talk about... well I've owned BMWs for 16 years... never heard them... come on.

[darksilkx1]

Call me a fan boy but since I've been able to afford a decent car, I have always had problems with the concept of buying a "luxury" car that shares the exact same engines as a mainstream brand. E.g the Lexus that shares an engine with a Toyota, and the Audi S4 that shares an engine with a VW Touareg. While I would not go as far as to call an Audi's a VW you have to admit there are a lot of familial similarities. You have to give MB and BMW props for not diluting their brands by passing the parts bin around.

[roshan93]

The audi has much smoother curver unlike the bmw which has sharp curves. I personally like the sharp curves on the bmw. I'm also much younger which the bmw has a much younger look to it. I say the audi has smoother curvers for older adults.

[Muffnbluff]

Can't get over the design of the new BMWs where the hood does not meet the grills, looks so bizarre.