[metrathon]

How many of you are willing to switch the brand to whatever, if that whatever will give you the experience you came to expect from BMW?

My point is that I don't care about the brand anymore, heritage, history, pedigree. That's the past, ghosts, books, dead people. I don't live in the past, I live in the present. And a present where Lexus, Cadillac and Infinity are starting to build more driver oriented cars than BMW, it's a not a happy present.

I want my heavy steering back, my stiff suspension, I want to feel the road again and grin like a cretin every time I drive on a B-road. But if BMW decided to soften their cars to please the herd and the shareholders, then maybe it's time to wave goodbye.

I know many of us are in denial, and it will last a while. For the first time since I became a BMW fan, I see driver-oriented comparos consistently showing that BMW is not the ultimate driving machine anymore. W.T.F.is.going.on???

Don't start with mindless fan-boys comments, look at my signature first, I'm not a Lexus driving real-estate agent who just test-drove his first BMW. I'm just a worried BMW fan, starting to plan for disaster.

[rallybull]

just spend $3K more and get the M Perf suspension and get some lighter wheels and better tires. Total damage will be about $5K but then you won't just grin like a cretin while driving on B roads, your teeth and bones will rattle like gods telling you "here is the feedback you wanted, take a plenty of it and a bit more". Comfort will be borderline gone but then the car will drive like a go kart and I guess that's what you are looking for.

[smv]

Im with you 100%! I am a long BMW driver and experienced the transition first hand. Last one I had was an E90 335i. Then switched to a VW GTI MK6 as this was the closest driving experience I had when parting the E90. I was in search for a car recently and was considering the GTI MK7. Dumped it because it was too soft and detached from the MK6. To which everyone was telling me was so soft and "electric steering" form the MK5 anyway.. I opted the extra expense to come back to BMW for the F30. I just took delivery this weekend of a F30 335i Sport with DHP and MSusp. I haven't comment yet as it will take some time.. But first impressions? Where to start..? Nothing compared to the E90 which I still have in my mind as a driving feel...

My theory? Series models grow following their customers. So the 3 series that you were used at a younger age is no longer the 3 series BMW offers you now a decade later.. It mostly resembles the 5 series then! In fact I was also considering a fully loaded F10 535i which I dumped because it was too big and woobly for me. Even the dealer told me it does not suit my driving style. It felt like a 7 when the E39 (which I had in the past) was the Ultimate driving machine..

So, yes, if you want to keep that feeling, consider the new lower series in the list.. 1 or 2 maybe the 3 of the past.. Or 3 now may be the 5 of the past.. And so on.. Same for VW, if you now wnat the feeling of an original Golg GTI, you might as well look at a Polo GTI. Less options, less detachment, more driving pleasure..

As for my new F30? Yes it's fantastic! A clear evolution of the E39 and E60.. That's how I feel about it..

[Mobster1983]

I have owned four BMWs, and my 5th is on the way.

2007 328i (bought CPO)
2007 X5
2009 335i
2008 M6
2014 335i sport line (enroute)

I have a loaner 328i now and I agree with the softer steering. However, you are talking about the base model of BMW. Move up to an "M" and you will feel a huge difference. The 335i has far more power, and with the VSS and adaptive dampers, there is a huge difference.

I have driven and test driven numerous vehicles since I started driving BMWs. I have to say, I do not ever see myself going back. It's not just one thing (the steering, which it will agree has gone down a bit). It's the look, the feel of the car, the technology, the comfort and everything else that just makes BMW far better than any other brand IMHO.

[yemenmocha]

Happily willing to switch but the alternatives for what I need on the whole were just not as good, in my opinion.

Also think you give too much credit to realtors.

[ATX78703]

I am open minded but I test drove the new IS and ATS. And the f30 is >>>>> better. F*** the magazines. Especially regarding the whole pkg of drivetrain etc.

[JohnVidale]

I was completely open minded, in fact I've never bought a BMW before this year, and BMW was the best choice. Not really that close, although if there were an Infiniti dealer closer, it would have at least had some competition.

Great car, and for once in my life my wife is not second guessing the decision. Being wedded to rondel is no way to make a decision.

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by metrathon

How many of you are willing to switch the brand to whatever, if that whatever will give you the experience you came to expect from BMW?

My point is that I don't care about the brand anymore, heritage, history, pedigree. That's the past, ghosts, books, dead people. I don't live in the past, I live in the present. And a present where Lexus, Cadillac and Infinity are starting to build more driver oriented cars than BMW, it's a not a happy present.

I want my heavy steering back, my stiff suspension, I want to feel the road again and grin like a cretin every time I drive on a B-road. But if BMW decided to soften their cars to please the herd and the shareholders, then maybe it's time to wave goodbye.

I know many of us are in denial, and it will last a while. For the first time since I became a BMW fan, I see driver-oriented comparos consistently showing that BMW is not the ultimate driving machine anymore. W.T.F.is.going.on???

Don't start with mindless fan-boys comments, look at my signature first, I'm not a Lexus driving real-estate agent who just test-drove his first BMW. I'm just a worried BMW fan, starting to plan for disaster.

I think I would. If I like anything else as a package yes. But that's hard to find too. I think my butt has permanently molded to BMW sport seats over the years. I don't care what I sit in, it is worse. For instance if the seat are more plush they are too soft for me. If they are harder they are too hard for me. If they are the same, then I complain about no bolsters etc.. These type of intangibles are hard to quantify naturally so... that throws into the mix for objectiveness. I remember the days when the 3series was the CLEAR winner so we didn't have to think twice about the next 3.

Also, I'm not a huge "upgrade" person so stock to stock comparo's DO do it for me. It is being beat and we compensate with "what ifs". I hate it when people say, "well if only they tested with upgraded tires, a tune etc.. , it would be more fair". In my book that's not fair or a good explanation for failure. I see it as an excuse as it says BMW built a failure, I am forced to fix their design flaws. For other's that's not a factor and its acceptable as they see it as a platform.

You need to build yourself a checklist of "musts", down to "nice to have's" and "don't cares" etc. My things to measure would have the below with varying importance:

• Daily Driver/Track Driver
• Cost/Value for money
• Maintenance cost and frequency
• Tech/Nav/BT/HUD/etc
• Reliability
• Steering/Handling/Suspension/driving feel
• Driver seating/feel
• Audio engine note
• Audio system
• brakes/braking feel
• Interior look
• Exterior look
• Street Cred/prestige/cache
• Passenger room/comfort

Make your list after each or your test drives/considerations and see what falls out. In a perfect world my F30, would have E46 steering/road feel vibrations etc, maybe a few more ponies ( but not a huge amount ) and stiffer suspension and improved road feel. That's about it. The tech is nice to have in a luxury car, and for future resale, but really if you get the for sport rather than luxury, the tech can be mediocre and it would be good enough for me.

And concerning BMW's direction, I think we need a (near) super car. Something that will drag all the lines in the right direction. Just like how Audi has the Lambo... I mean R8. I'm not dissing the M3/M4 in anyway. To me those are the ultimate driving machines in the BMW stable and I would like one. But we need something that will be the ultimate racing machine. That aught to put the sport back into it...

[dcg71]

I would have no qualms about buying another brand. If you feel the driving experience is lacking then choose something else. I was prepared to do so, but quite frankly found no better alternative. Probably the closest rival to the F30 335i is actually the E9x 335i.

I wouldn't get too beat up with the reviews. There were plenty of poor reviews of the E9x when it first came out in comparison to the E46.

I also think the saturation of models in BMW's line up has something to do with it. The current 3 series may not feel like the 3 series of old to some, but now I can buy a 1M (and in the future 2M).

[Gastoys]

I test drove the Audi S4, Lexus IS350, Mercedes C350, Hands-down the BMW 335i Is the best car out there.

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by Gastoys

I test drove the Audi S4, Lexus IS350, Mercedes C350, Hands-down the BMW 335i Is the best car out there.

That's why I'm STILL sticking with BMW.

[Jamesons Viggen]

I will buy anything if it's good. I have bought a new Hyundai, VW, Saab and BMW in the last 5 years. If it's a good car and fits my needs, done. If the next car to replace the BMW is better than what BMW offers, I feel no loyalty for loyalties sake.

[Elk]

Exactly.

Buy the car that does best what you are looking for at the time.

There are many excellent cars out there.

[turbolag]

Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger

Do.Not.Feed.The.Trolls

I thought you were a troll?

[Elk]

Don't feed it!

[rconti]

First mfgr to make a quick diesel AWD wagon with a stick, I'm in!

I've never considered myself "loyal" to BMW, but I considered them to make the cars that I like the best. I just don't really see anything that they make that I would spend my own money for today. Don't get me wrong, if I wanted a midsize sedan I'd get a 328 or a 335 over the competition, but I don't want a sedan. They're just chasing the same generic Lexus/Acura/Mercedes/Audi market segment everyone else is, rather than making special cool enthusiast cars.

The new M3/M4 looks amazing, but again, I'm not in the market for a big sporty sedan thing.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by metrathon

How many of you are willing to switch the brand to whatever, if that whatever will give you the experience you came to expect from BMW?

My point is that I don't care about the brand anymore, heritage, history, pedigree. That's the past, ghosts, books, dead people. I don't live in the past, I live in the present. And a present where Lexus, Cadillac and Infinity are starting to build more driver oriented cars than BMW, it's a not a happy present.

I want my heavy steering back, my stiff suspension, I want to feel the road again and grin like a cretin every time I drive on a B-road. But if BMW decided to soften their cars to please the herd and the shareholders, then maybe it's time to wave goodbye.

I know many of us are in denial, and it will last a while. For the first time since I became a BMW fan, I see driver-oriented comparos consistently showing that BMW is not the ultimate driving machine anymore. W.T.F.is.going.on???

Don't start with mindless fan-boys comments, look at my signature first, I'm not a Lexus driving real-estate agent who just test-drove his first BMW. I'm just a worried BMW fan, starting to plan for disaster.

+1. Agree!


Lifetime BMW driver here, and I'm ready to drop BMW soon. It's sad, because all my friends know me as a BMW enthusiast and a HUGE supporter. But, the truth is that i'm loyal to quality products and fun cars, and not a certain company or brand. Once BMW does not have that vision, and is not interested in protecting it's own heritage and furthering it's legacy, then I will walk.


Unfortunately, I have not been able to find much else to satisfy my very complex needs. Thought about Audi, Merc, Infinity, ... Other brands are good, but BMW's are still better. That's how far ahead of the game they used to be. Even their less interesting and dull current line-up will still give other car makers a run for the money. But the competition is closing in fast. BMW's lead will not last long. The best competition to an f30, still appears to be an e90. My guess is that will change in a couple of model cycles as BMW continues to soften and pander to the newly-affluent luxury car crowd, competition will eventually breed a clear winner to take much of BMW's lost market share (true driver's car).


f30 against other brands - f30 still wins.
f30 against e90 /92, e46 - f30 looses. Big time.


My next car will (hopefully) be an e92. Still not sure what I might do after that. Possibly a second hand porsche (apparently they still make cars with a true emphasis on the driver experience, with the race heritage at the forefront).


THE BMW M6 RANKED 10TH OUT OF 12 CONTENDERS IN 2013 MOTOR TREND'S "BEST DRIVERS CAR" COMPARO. FREAKING ///M6! ALL THE REVIEWERS RAGGED ON IT. ENOUGH SAID.


(#11 was a Ford Focus ST with malfunctioning brakes, #12 was the Viper with a whole host of assembly problems. So essentially the M6 was dead last).

[7thGear]

BMW needs customers. Customers do not need BMW.

[Falafel Combo]

[Falafel Combo]

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Jump to 1:02:50

[trey100]

Originally Posted by dcg71

I would have no qualms about buying another brand. If you feel the driving experience is lacking then choose something else. I was prepared to do so, but quite frankly found no better alternative. Probably the closest rival to the F30 335i is actually the E9x 335i.

I wouldn't get too beat up with the reviews. There were plenty of poor reviews of the E9x when it first came out in comparison to the E46.

I also think the saturation of models in BMW's line up has something to do with it. The current 3 series may not feel like the 3 series of old to some, but now I can buy a 1M (and in the future 2M).

I'm glad you brought this up. I haven't checked but I also recall when I was getting my 2007 E90 335, all the E46 owners talking about how the E90 was a let down. Reading most of the posts nowadays, it's as if the E90 was godly. I bet in time, the F30 with DHP will win favor with most everyone similar to the E90 (plus a MUCH better interior) with the prerequisite sports package. And xdrive folks get to order DHP unlike the past models

[7thGear]

Wow. An M6 beaten by a 5,000+ lb. Bentley and a Mercedes station wagon.