[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Isn't the clue in the position of the 'M'? The M235i is a more sport focused car.

Back here in the UK the F3x models are the first generation of the 3-series, we've had with xDrive and marketed more towards winter use. Quite a few have been caught out on finding the M-sport xDrive is a compromised suspension, compared to RWD M-sport models.

Isn't the xDrive market in the US and Canada also driven by the winter use preference, rather than simply a performance bias?

Is this ride height and softer suspension issue something which has evolved with the F3x models, or did it also exist with E9x xDrive models?

HighlandPete

Not sure about E9x history, but the US-spec F30 xDrive is also marketed for winter use.

[joewalton]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Isn't the xDrive market in the US and Canada also driven by the winter use preference, rather than simply a performance bias?

Is this ride height and softer suspension issue something which has evolved with the F3x models, or did it also exist with E9x xDrive models?

HighlandPete

Yes, in the US and Canada it's driven by winter use preference and usually by people who are too busy to be bothered by changing into winter tires. The car companies market AWD as easier, no tires to change, no waiting at the tire shop, no storing of tires, etc.

The E9X XDrive models had higher ride height but their suspensions were equally harsh, the pothole explosions on runflats were bone-jarring, turned a lot of drivers off to BMW completely. It's the reason why most F3X's come with a soft suspension, designed to win back those turned off by the E9X. Not performance enthusiasts.....civilians.

[Thumper333]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Front passive Sport strut: $248
Front adaptive DHP strut: $559

Heck, even if you bought the M Performance Suspension kit, replacing all 4 struts costs $1040. The two front adaptive struts are more than that alone.

But they are adaptive, whereas the others aren't.

I agree that this could be a considered factor for long term ownership, something to think about. however, the same thing could be said for ANY option. How much is it to replace the HUD? Then why get it, it's more expensive to replace. How much to replace Nav unit over the regular unit? Then why get it...it costs more to replace.

The trick is to balance the improvement against the cost and make that decision. Not to just look at cost, obviously any upgrade will be more than no upgrade.

A good set of adjustable coil overs will cost upwards of $2500-3000 plus install.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Isn't the xDrive market in the US and Canada also driven by the winter use preference, rather than simply a performance bias?

It should be, as the X cars are clearly not designed for the highest of performance. Ultimately most people are brainwashed to see AWD as ONLY a winter/offroad device anyway over here.

But even then, being honest, my Q5 TDI was more nimble in the snow than my F31. Ultimately, I love the F31 more as I hate SUVs (even an SUV that has 429ft/lbs of torque ) but sad that a fat high riding SUV was able to handle the snow packed covered streets of my neighborhood with ease and the F31 gave me two scary moments this season on them means BMW still has some work to do on snow too.

But hey, best diesel AWD wagon for sale in the US.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by joewalton

Yes, in the US and Canada it's driven by winter use preference and usually by people who are too busy to be bothered by changing into winter tires. The car companies market AWD as easier, no tires to change, no waiting at the tire shop, no storing of tires, etc.

The E9X XDrive models had higher ride height but their suspensions were equally harsh, the pothole explosions on runflats were bone-jarring, turned a lot of drivers off to BMW completely. It's the reason why most F3X's come with a soft suspension, designed to win back those turned off by the E9X. Not performance enthusiasts.....civilians.

I have never read or heard that from a dealer or a manufacturer. Every dealer that i have dealt with up here mentions the importance of winter tires. Where do you get this stuff Joe? The e92 x drive was higher and way softer than my rwd e92 with sport suspension which was really harsh.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

I have never read or heard that from a dealer or a manufacturer. Every dealer that i have dealt with up here mentions the importance of winter tires. Where do you get this stuff Joe? The e92 x drive was higher and way softer than my rwd e92 with sport suspension which was really harsh.

Joe is right, the e9x xdrive were the worst awd suspension ever (combine with rft). I agree bmw soften the f3x xdrive suspension for that reason

[xlover]

whatever the reasons for choosing Xdrive or RWD (that is a debate for another day)
Customer should be able to order the same sport suspension and ride height as RWD if they want it. The parts all exist, it would be easy for BMW to make it a box to check.
I hope the M235 is a step in the right direction offering the same Adaptive M suspension on RWD And Xdrive

[joewalton]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

I have never read or heard that from a dealer or a manufacturer. Every dealer that i have dealt with up here mentions the importance of winter tires. Where do you get this stuff Joe? The e92 x drive was higher and way softer than my rwd e92 with sport suspension which was really harsh.

Where do I get it? From watching TV, reading magazines, on the web. AWD is marketed as the antidote for snow tires up here, they show cars doing donuts on cliffs, SUV's on snow covered twisties at night, the works.

Dealers in NJ pitch to older folks how AWD and all-seasons are all that's needed. I disagree.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by joewalton

Where do I get it? From watching TV, reading magazines, on the web. AWD is marketed as the antidote for snow tires up here, they show cars doing donuts on cliffs, SUV's on snow covered twisties at night, the works.

Dealers in NJ pitch to older folks how AWD and all-seasons are all that's needed. I disagree.

Not up here.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Joe is right, the e9x xdrive were the worst awd suspension ever (combine with rft). I agree bmw soften the f3x xdrive suspension for that reason

Mine was punishing. Everyone here LOVED it back then. The really heavy steering was also very popular.

[joewalton]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Not up here.

Nissan Canada

Audi America

[335BOY]

Do they talk about awd and all season as all you need?

[joewalton]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Do they talk about awd and all season as all you need?

In the US, specifically in the big northeast metro's like Boston, New York, and Philadelphia, yes. Rich people, busy lifestyle, embracers of technology, small homes/apartments, congested traffic, they sell them on 'convenience'.

Thing is, if more people knew that RWD + Snow Tires was safer and less money as AWD + All Seasons then the car companies lose $2,000 per sale in the and the tire companies gain. Think of it this way- we know how few BMW performance enthusiasts there are in the big picture, what, maybe 10% of all drivers, so pitching XDrive as some handling marvel wouldn't get it sold (think DHP). Ah, but pitch it as the magic potion for snow and ice safety and one that doesn't need that messy job of tire changes, ah, please Mr. Dealer, please take my money...

[HighlandPete]

Similar marketing for AWD in the UK. We had a few bad winters and all the attention went to AWD, hardly any serious mention of the correct tyres.

I recall one of the leading UK motoring magazines featuring the "best 10" vehicles for winter. A list of AWD examples, most are sold in the UK with summer tires, (we don't typically run all-season over here), and there was not one word about cold weather/winter/snow tires.

Even our BMW xDrive models virtually all come with high performance summer tyres. Many AWD users don't swap to winter tyres, feel secure in winter running on the AWD myth.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by joewalton

The E9X XDrive models had higher ride height but their suspensions were equally harsh, the pothole explosions on runflats were bone-jarring, turned a lot of drivers off to BMW completely. It's the reason why most F3X's come with a soft suspension, designed to win back those turned off by the E9X. Not performance enthusiasts.....civilians.

That explains a lot and why BMW have softened the F3x, xDrive models.

Problem we have over here in the UK, the top diesel is the 35d engine, (N57 bi-turbo), it only comes as xDrive, but is the performance model in the 3 and 4 series ranges. Most buying it are buying for the performance, not really for the winter setup. Hence the OEM suspension options are getting lots of criticism from the enthusiast.

HighlandPete

[joewalton]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

That explains a lot and why BMW have softened the F3x, xDrive models.

Problem we have over here in the UK, the top diesel is the 35d engine, (N57 bi-turbo), it only comes as xDrive, but is the performance model in the 3 and 4 series ranges. Most buying it are buying for the performance, not really for the winter setup. Hence the OEM suspension options are getting lots of criticism from the enthusiast.

HighlandPete

In it's own way, that's what DHP is for.

Instead of offering the tight BMW suspension we've grown accustomed to since the 80s as standard equipment, now we have to pay for it. Problem is the word still isn't out yet, you still have thousands of BMW aficionados thinking an F30 is sporty right out of the gate and certainly don't know about the XDrive M-Sport bait and switch. It's a mess. I believe this is the matrix of BMW suspensions for the F3X, I'm somewhat knowledgeable and even I get confused:

M-Performance Suspension (RWD)
M-Performance Suspension (XDrive)
Adaptive M Suspension (RWD)
Adaptive M Suspension (XDrive)
M-Sport Suspension (RWD)
M-Sport Suspension (XDrive)
Standard Suspension (RWD)
XDrive Suspension (XDrive)

[335BOY]

Most dealers here preach winter tires if you buy a car in the fall or winter. Call your insurance go for your new car and they tell you about discount if you use winter tires.

[joewalton]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Most dealers here preach winter tires if you buy a car in the fall or winter. Call your insurance go for your new car and they tell you about discount if you use winter tires.

Doesn't get that cold compared to Toronto down here, but we have our moments.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Most dealers here preach winter tires if you buy a car in the fall or winter. Call your insurance go for your new car and they tell you about discount if you use winter tires.

Until a couple of years ago many of our insurance companies over here in the UK were wanting to charge us for fitting winter tires, viewed as a modification, and also charging for notifying them of a change on the policy.

The ABI (Association of British Insurers) got involved and at least we now don't have this penalty for fitting winter tyres.

Discounts for fitting winter tires... I think that would be a miracle here in the UK, however good the safety argument put forward.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by joewalton

In it's own way, that's what DHP is for.

Instead of offering the tight BMW suspension we've grown accustomed to since the 80s as standard equipment, now we have to pay for it. Problem is the word still isn't out yet, you still have thousands of BMW aficionados thinking an F30 is sporty right out of the gate and certainly don't know about the XDrive M-Sport bait and switch. It's a mess. I believe this is the matrix of BMW suspensions for the F3X, I'm somewhat knowledgeable and even I get confused:

Problem is, even DHP (top factory fitted option) on an xDrive is not good enough for many seasoned BMW drivers.

Users are fitting ACS (AC Schnitzer) springs to improve the ride height and gain better body control.

HighlandPete

[MJagent]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Problem is, even DHP (top factory fitted option) on an xDrive is not good enough for many seasoned BMW drivers.

Users are fitting ACS (AC Schnitzer) springs to improve the ride height and gain better body control.

HighlandPete

You guys are on point, I've been reading a lot of reviews and searching the internet and although there are several outliers , the consensus seems to be that DHP is a must /deal breaker not to have on xdrive cars.

This is the one option on a 3/4 series xdrive that seems like a bargain above all others. (Hence the title of this thread) Shame that BMW dealers don't inform people to at least consider DHP esp. on Xdrive cars.

Just as I decided to walk away from the 1,000 deposit on an xdrive no-DHP Custom Order, BMW seems to have taken away Estoril Blue as a color option on 3 and 4 series cars. FML, BMW.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by MJagent

You guys are on point, I've been reading a lot of reviews and searching the internet and although there are several outliers , the consensus seems to be that DHP is a must /deal breaker not to have on xdrive cars.

This is the one option on a 3/4 series xdrive that seems like a bargain above all others. (Hence the title of this thread) Shame that BMW dealers don't inform people to at least consider DHP esp. on Xdrive cars.

Just as I decided to walk away from the 1,000 deposit on an xdrive no-DHP Custom Order, BMW seems to have taken away Estoril Blue as a color option on 3 and 4 series cars. FML, BMW.

I was wondering about EB. It's missing from the web site for some 3/4s right now.

[ska///235i]

Im sure its just a web glitch