[oonowindoo]

Originally Posted by teaston

A UK member seems to think the opposite in his thread today, here's pre LCI Xenon on top, LCI LED on bottom:

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1206916

Those are with High Beam on. MY LED with high beam on is just as good as any lights out there.

However, the low beams are quite disappointing compared to other HID low beams with projectors.

[oonowindoo]

Originally Posted by Mauricio Palacios. MD

Only to make a little bit of polemic... Haha...

LED Vs. Xenon Lighting

Current light bulb technology has greatly improved over older incandescent bulb technology. Newer LED and xenon bulbs produce a more light while using less energy. The use of LED and xenon bulbs in flashlights and car headlights is common. You also can use LED and xenon bulbs in a variety of places, including under-cabinet lights, display lights and decorative lighting for holidays.

Light-emitting diode, or LED, lights use about one-seventh the energy of an incandescent bulb and can last up to 100,000 hours per bulb, according to G. Miller and Scott Spoolman in “Environmental Science Problems, Concepts and Solutions.” LED lights use a diode that is about one-fourth of an inch to convert electricity into light, according to the website toolbase.

Xenon Lights
Xenon technology uses the noble gas xenon to produce light that is very close to natural sunlight. Xenon headlights in cars improve visibility because the lights illuminate a broader area in front of the car than a traditional headlight. There are a variety of other uses for xenon lights, ranging from operating rooms to airport signal lights, because xenon bulbs last a long time, according to the Xenon Corporation.

Advantages of Xenon
The light produced by xenon gas technology is very bright, making it especially good for places like hospital operating rooms. It also is very close to natural light. Xenon gas lights can last from 6,000 to 20,000 hours per bulb, according to the website lighting-fixtures-tips-designs.

Disadvantages
Both xenon and LED lights have disadvantages. Xenon lights can explode when they are old, according to the website FilmTech. Xenon headlights can make it difficult for oncoming drivers to see, according to USA Today. LED lights produce directional light, but they don't create enough light to light a room. Xenon bulbs also are much more expensive than either LED or traditional lights.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/18...enon-lighting/

So, I think it's once again, only a matter of cost/benefit...

LEDs are cheaper to produce for BMW (AL, Hella) and they can sell that technology as "the ultimate". So... Here we go as beef cattle to the slaughter... Haha... I have 2 vehicles with OEM LED technology and other 3 with OEM HID Xenon technology. I think HID's are still better...

Lower production costs, less government regulations (in Europe, LED headlights don't have to equip headlights washers or automatic leveling control, because they emit less light [<200 lumens], so less chance to disturb other drivers on the road) = cheaper - no more, no less...

yah except you forgot 1 if not the most important thing, the design of the headlight is just as important if not more important than the light bulbs themselves.

I have no doubt that the LED with projectors will be just as good as HIDs if not better. But why BMW chose to go with the reflector type is beyond me. This is not 1980s anymore.

[//M]

Originally Posted by oonowindoo

yah except you forgot 1 if not the most important thing, the design of the headlight is just as important if not more important than the light bulbs themselves.

I have no doubt that the LED with projectors will be just as good as HIDs if not better. But why BMW chose to go with the reflector type is beyond me. This is not 1980s anymore.

They went with mirrors for the crazy anti dazzle solution that the U.S. doesn't get.

[dnjc]

Originally Posted by Trekk

The issue with the new headlights is not that they are LED, it is the fact that BMW uses an antiquated reflector housing design - similar to the halogens.

If BMW would offer LED projectors I doubt anyone would have reasons to complain.

I don't know if the reasons for going back to reflectors are technical, financial, marketing, or some combination - but it is objectively a step backward, not forward.

Projectors (like those in the Xenon headlights) provide better light field coverage and spot quality. This is optics, and has nothing to do with how bright or white the light is, or whether it is coming from a Xenon bulb or an LED.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by oonowindoo

yah except you forgot 1 if not the most important thing, the design of the headlight is just as important if not more important than the light bulbs themselves.

I have no doubt that the LED with projectors will be just as good as HIDs if not better. But why BMW chose to go with the reflector type is beyond me. This is not 1980s anymore.

I'm not sure projectors would be better tbh, remember the E46 facelift coupe had projector halogens, they were not as good as the reflector halogens before them!

[Mauricio Palacios. MD]

Originally Posted by oonowindoo

yah except you forgot 1 if not the most important thing, the design of the headlight is just as important if not more important than the light bulbs themselves.

I have no doubt that the LED with projectors will be just as good as HIDs if not better. But why BMW chose to go with the reflector type is beyond me. This is not 1980s anymore.

The answer is the same: COST.

[howiegu]

My 16' 340 LED headlights are not as far reach as my 13' 335 with Xenon. Thought it was due to the light types. Got used to it...
Until got wifey a 16' X1 also with LED last week, the X1's lights are much better comparing to my 340.
The difference? X1 has projection lenses.
Just one data point.

[oonowindoo]

Originally Posted by tifosielia

They went with mirrors for the crazy anti dazzle solution that the U.S. doesn't get.

and it can be programmed with Projectors just as well... since you can have more than 1 projector on each side (like a lot of the other LED equipped cars)

[oonowindoo]

Originally Posted by Mauricio Palacios. MD

The answer is the same: COST.

That would be a valid argument except the adaptive LED headlight was not standard equipment.

I had to pay $1900 more for it, so cost should not be the reason since WE are paying for it.

[oonowindoo]

Originally Posted by howiegu

My 16' 340 LED headlights are not as far reach as my 13' 335 with Xenon. Thought it was due to the light types. Got used to it...
Until got wifey a 16' X1 also with LED last week, the X1's lights are much better comparing to my 340.
The difference? X1 has projection lenses.
Just one data point.

yah.

I had driven other cars with LED and projectors like the TLX, A7, S550 and even Corolla. While they all had their own problems due to the limitation of LED bulbs, but range/width was not one of them as it is for the F3X.

[Mauricio Palacios. MD]

Originally Posted by oonowindoo

That would be a valid argument except the adaptive LED headlight was not standard equipment.

I had to pay $1900 more for it, so cost should not be the reason since WE are paying for it.

A lower cost of production for the manufacturer, not for you, obviously... Haha... Cheaper for them but, as "newer and better technology" more expensive for the consumer... And why? Because there are people paying for it...

[oonowindoo]

Originally Posted by Mauricio Palacios. MD

A lower cost of production for the manufacturer, not for you, obviously... Haha... Cheaper for them but, as "newer and better technology" more expensive for the consumer... And why? Because there are people paying for it...

I honestly do not think that is the reason since projectors and manufacture cost for these headlights are not high anymore.

Unlike in the 90s, projectors are not some high end items anymore. You will really HAVE to look for the non projectors cars on the road nowadays.

I would not be surprised if the Reflector type actually cost more to produce in today's world.

and somehow X1 gets LED with projectors and 340 LCI and the new X5/6 don't... dont understand the logic.

[Emilim]

Originally Posted by Trekk

I don't know if the reasons for going back to reflectors are technical, financial, marketing, or some combination - but it is objectively a step backward, not forward.

Like all things in life, it is likely a combination of all of the above. I'd wager if you asked the designer why they went with the current design the answer you'll get is "because it works".

http://www.bmwblog.com/2014/02/10/ne...hts-explained/

The impression I got from that was "it's efficient, it's functional, it's not overengineered so costs are kept in check, and it still offers multiple improvements over the old unit". You could objectively argue that it does not excel over the xenon units in every way, just like I could've criticized my iphone for not having a convenient second glance screen like my old Sony Ericsson. But at the end of the day, the improvements are there and that's what matters (to the average buyer anyway).

[Mauricio Palacios. MD]

Originally Posted by oonowindoo

I honestly do not think that is the reason since projectors and manufacture cost for these headlights are not high anymore.

Unlike in the 90s, projectors are not some high end items anymore. You will really HAVE to look for the non projectors cars on the road nowadays.

I would not be surprised if the Reflector type actually cost more to produce in today's world.

and somehow X1 gets LED with projectors and 340 LCI and the new X5/6 don't... dont understand the logic.

It's not only the headlights units, which yes, I think are considerable more expensive... It's all the lighting system: the ballasts (reactors), automatic leveler system, headlights washers (in Europe, more than 2000 lumens light emitting sources, require it by government regulations). The xenon bulbs themselves are considerably more expensive (rare and dangerous gases). I'm not only talking about automotive, but operating rooms lighting, which is what I do everyday.

That is in non adaptive headlights systems. Now, if we talk adaptive, it's much more expensive (and easier to fail) to equip the units with actuators to make the projectors to move in any direction, than put 4, 5 or 15 diodes and control which will be on, in a given circumstance...

"The logic" in equipping LEDs with projectors or reflectors, it's only commercial strategy. Nobody wants to pay 2k more for something that looks the same and works "not as good as". Now that xenon headlights are not an option anymore, I think it's only a matter of time for all the LEDs equip projectors, like in other brands (1-2 years)...

[goj]

Originally Posted by Trekk

I recently drove a '16 LCI 328i loaner that had the new LED headlights (non-adaptive). I found them to be rather dissapointing compared with the adaptive xenons in my '14. They did not project as far, they lit up the foreground a lot more which made it harder to see the relatively darker objects at a distance, and they were overall not as bright as the xenons against a garage wall. They also have a lot more side glare (they'll project bright reflection lines on a side-wall, for example). This is due to the fact that they are basic reflectors, similar to the halogens, while the xenons are projectors.

They also seem to aim significantly lower than the xenons on the low-beam - enough so to be annoying. Perhaps this is adjustable.

My driving was all on low beam, on fairly well lit city streets.

In my opinion the light source itself might be more high-end (LED vs Xenon), but the headlight design as a whole is quite a bit worse for the driver than the older Xenons. Going back to the Xenons felt downright luxurious by comparison - a different class.

My question is, how much of this can you 'fix' by coding? I've read that the US brightness is coded to be lower than the EU brightness. Can you code the brightness back up?

Also, would enabling the variable light feature through coding improve the distance throw? I assume it is possible to enable it. I've seen how-to's for the M3 and 4-series LED headlights, but those are a slighly different design (although still reflector-based).

I'm curious about this since with the LCI BMW no longer gives you the option of xenon projectors. You'll get reflector LED's - and ... like it?

Did you have a 320i? 328 either has halogen or adaptive LED in the US.

[Mauricio Palacios. MD]

Did anybody see this...?

http://www.brightheadlights.com/comp...ersus-led.html

[openwheelracing]

Poorly written article from someone trying to make a buck.

I am in the xenon camp btw.

[dalto]

Originally Posted by goj

Did you have a 320i? 328 either has halogen or adaptive LED in the US.

+1

OP, are you sure you didn't have halogen headlights?