[havoc57]

It just looks off with yellow fogs and white corona rings.
I've swopped my globes with H8 Xenons, looks a little better, but would have preferred LED's on the fogs.

[dc503]

Luckily in the US, M-Sport cars dont have this dilemma...since they don't give us fogs at all. This does not look good.

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by dc503

Luckily in the US, M-Sport cars dont have this dilemma...since they don't give us fogs at all. This does not look good.

I'm used to it now. Remember we need better airflow here in the States. LOL

[rjpeaks]

why not LED tailights?

[RedlinePSI]

I would definitely prefer a whiter, better matching light, but I can deal with it. Once one blows out I might take the opportunity to do something about it.

[ft1330]

I hate the look with fogs anyway

[OC40]

Originally Posted by dc503

Luckily in the US, M-Sport cars dont have this dilemma...since they don't give us fogs at all. This does not look good.

Fogs do not look good.

[OC40]

Originally Posted by ft1330

I hate the look with fogs anyway

This.

[x5mad]

Not sure about the USA but in Australia there is an epidemic of fog lights being turned on during the middle of the day in clear daylight. Despite it being illegal to do so. I just cannot understand this! Do people really think its cool to turn on their fogs during the day?

Fogs should not be needed for the majority of the time.

My 2003 e46 compact had projector housing for the fogs. They are half the size of the current f30 fogs and look so much better. Don't know why BMW didn't continue with this. The current f30 foglights look so big and ugly IMHO.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by x5mad

Not sure about the USA but in Australia there is an epidemic of fog lights being turned on during the middle of the day in clear daylight. Despite it being illegal to do so. I just cannot understand this! Do people really think its cool to turn on their fogs during the day?

Fogs should not be needed for the majority of the time.

My 2003 e46 compact had projector housing for the fogs. They are half the size of the current f30 fogs and look so much better. Don't know why BMW didn't continue with this. The current f30 foglights look so big and ugly IMHO.

What's the harm of fog lights? Why would they be illegal?

I thought they are positioned/directed below where fog tends to "hover", thus gives you better visibility and allows others to see you. They are purposefully dim so as to have deeper penetration (you don't use high beams in fog). Why is this a safety issue?

[x5mad]

Sorry should have been clearer.

I am talking about people using it in broad daylight.

Only supposed to be used in fog or adverse weather conditions.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by x5mad

Sorry should have been clearer.

I am talking about people using it in broad daylight.

Only supposed to be used in fog or adverse weather conditions.

I was asking why they are bad in broad daylight? They are super dim and not even aimed at oncoming traffic...why care?

[chylld]

Originally Posted by drob23

What's the harm of fog lights? Why would they be illegal?

Down here there are many cars with fog lights aimed upwards. When turned on they're as blinding as high-beams

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by drob23

I was asking why they are bad in broad daylight? They are super dim and not even aimed at oncoming traffic...why care?

They are not super dim. Since they are brighter (than the halogen bulb), they overwhelm the optics (mirror) and bounce more light upward (glare) than the OEM bulbs.

Foglights for people that have Xenon headlights are totally a poser thing - the Xenons provide as much side illumination as halogen fogs, and actually have too much foreground illumination to be safe - you actually can't see down the road as far with Xenons due to that (in clear weather) as with halogens.

Foglights are illegal to have on during the daytime in some jurisdictions, for these and other reasons.

And, btw, you should notice the thread "why do people hate BMW drivers" (or whatever it is). Foglights on during the day is one of the reasons ...

[MicrophoneMic]

Originally Posted by OC40

Fogs do not look good.

I disagree. I prefer fogs on the car, especially on the Msport. Just doesn't look right without them compared to Euro spec cars. However, they need to be swapped out to HID's, preferably 5000K or so. It just looks so much better (especially driving at night) than with nothing there.

Is the reason that BMW left out the fogs on US spec cars due to better cooling actually a legitimate reason (cuz those in the US track their cars more) or is it just something that was hypothesized by forum members? So Euro drivers don't track their cars at all?

It just seems that Euro/Asian spec cars always get better equipment on identical vehicles than here in the US and more choices at that. There have been so many times where I've read how a certain luxury car/brand offers their vehicle overseas with better and more options than what we get offered here for the same car.

Why exactly is that? Is it cost-cutting? The exchange rate? Or more to do with demographics of American buyers versus Europeans/Asians. Kinda sucks for us.

[x5mad]

Originally Posted by drob23

I was asking why they are bad in broad daylight? They are super dim and not even aimed at oncoming traffic...why care?

The responses above pretty much sum it all up.

I pose to you in reverse, why have it on during the day? What possible benefit is there? There are sidelights and drl if safety is the concern. And whilst at it why not drive with rear fogs on all the time too?

I agree it is totally a poser thing. And I will bet that people looking at those cars with fogs on during the day won't be thinking gee that looks good, he is so cool. I compare it to someone who plasters a m3 badge on their 320i and thinks it looks so cool but in fact will be the only one thinking that.

There are plenty of motorists who play around with their fogs and end result is it is not aimed correctly and is blinding to other drivers.

I have lived in the uk and now Australia and it is illegal during clear weather. Hey man, I don't make the rules. I'm guessing you drive with fogs on as I seem to have hit a nerve.

Sorry to op for digressing.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by chylld

Down here there are many cars with fog lights aimed upwards. When turned on they're as blinding as high-beams

That completely defeats the purpose of fog lights. And I'm not sure why people want HID fog lights...that defeats the purpose of them even more. They're supposed to be dim. You're supposed to use them in heavy rain and fog. Water absorbs light so the fog lights help when visibility is low due to downpours and such. If they were HID fogs, you'd turn them on and they wouldn't be of any help.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by x5mad

The responses above pretty much sum it all up.

I pose to you in reverse, why have it on during the day? What possible benefit is there? There are sidelights and drl if safety is the concern. And whilst at it why not drive with rear fogs on all the time too?

I agree it is totally a poser thing. And I will bet that people looking at those cars with fogs on during the day won't be thinking gee that looks good, he is so cool. I compare it to someone who plasters a m3 badge on their 320i and thinks it looks so cool but in fact will be the only one thinking that.

There are plenty of motorists who play around with their fogs and end result is it is not aimed correctly and is blinding to other drivers.

I have lived in the uk and now Australia and it is illegal during clear weather. Hey man, I don't make the rules. I'm guessing you drive with fogs on as I seem to have hit a nerve.

Sorry to op for digressing.

Well, my foglights are pretty benign compared with the DRL's + Xenon's, and they are color matched 5k ziza bulbs. I have never felt blinded by someone's fog lights, unless it's some tricked out WRX with center mounted fog lights that think they are on the WRC circuit. It is possible to have my fog lights coded to come on automatically whenever the headlight is on, not sure why Audi provide that calibration in the ECU in if they felt it was some kind of public safety risk. Likewise, an individual bulb can be coded to come on whenever the turn signal comes on.

Here are the light patterns, notice how much brighter the headlight pattern is


Here is my car, notice how much brighter the headlights are...pic taken well above the cutoff line.

Untitled by sasfasdf, on Flickr

The only blinding I see is from aftermarket xenon conversions or big ass trucks that have their xenon cutoff line well above my car.

And regarding your reverse question: I'm not saying there is any utility, however, having any lights on during the day is *far* better than all the clowns who drive around without lights on or broken ones or tinted tail lights that I can't see. They forget to turn them on when it starts raining and become hazards. I'm saying that I don't understand all this anger directed towards something that is benign in my opinion, I'm not arguing the converse, simply saying why make the big deal?

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by drob23

What's the harm of fog lights? Why would they be illegal?

I thought they are positioned/directed below where fog tends to "hover", thus gives you better visibility and allows others to see you. They are purposefully dim so as to have deeper penetration (you don't use high beams in fog). Why is this a safety issue?

+1. That would be like daytime running lights up here. This is funny. If 3s here had fogs and they werent available in OPs country everyone here would be saying "aw thats too bad. Fogs are the best. Can't believe BMW cheaped out over there. I'd write a letter".......

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

They are not super dim. Since they are brighter (than the halogen bulb), they overwhelm the optics (mirror) and bounce more light upward (glare) than the OEM bulbs.

Foglights for people that have Xenon headlights are totally a poser thing - the Xenons provide as much side illumination as halogen fogs, and actually have too much foreground illumination to be safe - you actually can't see down the road as far with Xenons due to that (in clear weather) as with halogens.

Foglights are illegal to have on during the daytime in some jurisdictions, for these and other reasons.

And, btw, you should notice the thread "why do people hate BMW drivers" (or whatever it is). Foglights on during the day is one of the reasons ...

I don't get this. How is this a "poseur" thing? Man everyone sure cares about what everyone else does around here lately.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

They are not super dim. Since they are brighter (than the halogen bulb), they overwhelm the optics (mirror) and bounce more light upward (glare) than the OEM bulbs.

Foglights for people that have Xenon headlights are totally a poser thing - the Xenons provide as much side illumination as halogen fogs, and actually have too much foreground illumination to be safe - you actually can't see down the road as far with Xenons due to that (in clear weather) as with halogens.

Foglights are illegal to have on during the daytime in some jurisdictions, for these and other reasons.

And, btw, you should notice the thread "why do people hate BMW drivers" (or whatever it is). Foglights on during the day is one of the reasons ...

Can you please provide proof that factory fog lights are not dim and are aimed up? I highly doubt that factory setups violate *any* of the laws out there in terms of intensity, pattern and cutoff.

If this is a serious problem somewhere, and regional legislation is in place to presumably deal with an epidemic violation of the DOT standards, then it must be a catch all so as to not waste an officers time measuring the diffraction pattern and cutoff of some clowns "OMG WRC AFTERMARKET FOGLIGHTS HELLA LIGHT".

[drob23]

Here is what a MN police offer wrote up, highlighted important parts:

"M.S.S. 169.56 S 2 says, “Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two fog lamps mounted on the front at a height not less than 12 inches nor more than 30 inches above the level surface upon which the vehicle stands and so aimed that when the vehicle is not loaded none of the high-intensity portion of the light to the left of the center of the vehicle shall at a distance of 25 feet ahead project higher than a level of four inches below the level of the center of the lamp from which it comes. Lighted fog lamps meeting the above requirements may be used with lower headlamp beams…..”

Another relevant law is M.S.S. 169.63(b), which also tells us that, “When a motor vehicle equipped with headlamps, as (herein) required, is also equipped with any auxiliary lamps, spot lamps or any other lamps on the front thereof projecting a beam of intensity greater than 300-candle power, not more than a total of four of any such lamps on the front of a vehicle shall be lighted at any one time when upon a highway.”

Also, some of the lights you are seeing might actually be "daytime running lights". Many of those are on automatically and are installed by the manufacturer. The driver may not always have the ability to turn them off. They cannot be used in lieu of headlights, but sometimes they are, which would be a violation. It is best practice to keep your lights on at all times on the road to make yourself more visible to other drivers. It’s the law to have head lights (and tail lights) on during rain – something we’ll be seeing more of in the springtime. I hope some of this information helps. Minnesota State Statutes are copyrighted, and portions of the state statutes were used with permission of the Office of the Revisor of Statutes. "

Source: http://www.northlandsnewscenter.com/...228639051.html