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View Poll Results: If you like a flash tune and do not have an M-sport will you be getting a Dinan tune?
No, I will not let the BMW factory warranty be voided with the Dinan tune. 22 30.99%
Yes, but only if the Dinan center is also a BMW dealer. 35 49.30%
Yes, it really does not matter if the Dinan center is a BMW dealer or not. 14 19.72%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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      12-29-2012, 09:15 PM   #1
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Dinan Tune for F30 - worth the risk?

Now that it appears that the PPK is likely going to be offered just for the M-Sport line, I was wondering if Dinan is reasonable alternative for folks (with non-M sports) who would like to retain warranty, yet get a tune.

Dinan's warranty is not the same as factory warranty. There have been threads where people claimed that upon engine/transmission failure it might be possible to get stuck between Dinan and BMW dealer, each blaming the other and not accepting to do the repair under their respective warranties.

Would you be willing to take this risk, if the BMW dealer is also a Dinan authorized center?

Here in AZ, no BMW dealers do Dinan jobs anymore. Would you take the risk if the Dinan center is not a BMW dealer?
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      12-29-2012, 10:15 PM   #2
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Do we even know if Dinan will offer it for all lines?

No point on permutating until we know for sure...my parts guy and service manager assured me by June well have PPK for all lines.

With that said, I wouldn't do it if my dealer didn't regularly install an stand behind Dinan.
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      12-29-2012, 11:47 PM   #3
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Never thought of it from that angle that Dinan too might limit to certain lines. My reasoning was that if BMW indeed decides to limit the PPK to just M-sports it would be primarily for some kind of marketing reason, a reason that Dinan would not have.

Good to know that there is still some hope for the PPK, just the wait is crazy! I remember when we were all waiting for it to be released on the first week of November, then it became December, then March and now I hear June. Sigh
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      12-30-2012, 09:05 AM   #4
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The statement about allowing "Dinan to void my factory warranty" just isn't true. While Dinan offers a parallel warranty, it does not void your factory warranty. Anything that Dinan's software upgrade might be responsible for will be covered by Dinan; anything else is still covered by the factory warranty. I've had Dinan software in all 3 of my 3-series cars since 2001, and I have never ever had a problem with warranty or any other issue with my cars. The dealers I have worked with sell and support Dinan, so that may be why I've been problem-free as far as coverage goes. Besides, Dinan's tune levels (aside from S3) are not likely to cause any real issues. They never have for me, including the S3 I now have in my E92.

That said, as soon as S2 is available for the F30 335i, I'll be having that installed on my F30 M-Sport. The PPK will add maybe 20HP; the Dinan software will add quite a bit more for nearly the same price. $1700 for 20 hp/26 tq and some stickers or $1995 for 55 hp/100 tq? Seems like an easy choice.
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      12-31-2012, 06:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
The statement about allowing "Dinan to void my factory warranty" just isn't true. While Dinan offers a parallel warranty, it does not void your factory warranty. Anything that Dinan's software upgrade might be responsible for will be covered by Dinan; anything else is still covered by the factory warranty. I've had Dinan software in all 3 of my 3-series cars since 2001, and I have never ever had a problem with warranty or any other issue with my cars. The dealers I have worked with sell and support Dinan, so that may be why I've been problem-free as far as coverage goes. Besides, Dinan's tune levels (aside from S3) are not likely to cause any real issues. They never have for me, including the S3 I now have in my E92.

That said, as soon as S2 is available for the F30 335i, I'll be having that installed on my F30 M-Sport. The PPK will add maybe 20HP; the Dinan software will add quite a bit more for nearly the same price. $1700 for 20 hp/26 tq and some stickers or $1995 for 55 hp/100 tq? Seems like an easy choice.
I think the Dinan tune DOES void your BMW warranty. That is why if you have the Dinan tune you cannot get your car CPO'd through BMW.
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      01-01-2013, 12:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
I think the Dinan tune DOES void your BMW warranty. That is why if you have the Dinan tune you cannot get your car CPO'd through BMW.
Technically a PPK wouldn't be "warrantiable" either after 2 years, no?

I don't think there's a tune that can be backed by a factory warranty.
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      01-01-2013, 09:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
I think the Dinan tune DOES void your BMW warranty. That is why if you have the Dinan tune you cannot get your car CPO'd through BMW.
No, it does NOT void your warranty. That's a ridiculous assumption - and would certainly not explain how I have had Dinan on both new and CPO cars and never had any issues with warranty, including the extended CPO warranty that goes beyond the 4/50 factory warranty. You pay more for Dinan equipment and software because they stand behind their products with a parallel warranty. Parallel, as in "in addition to", not replacement. So let's set the record straight here - Dinan DOES NOT VOID YOUR WARRANTY!
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      01-01-2013, 12:05 PM   #8
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I think it is pretty clear that if say the taillights fall off, BMW cannot deny warranty repair stating that the Dinan's tune caused it. I guess there is a law for that too( Magnuson Moss act).

However, if you happen to blow your turbo, BMW will most likely blame your tune for that. In this case Dinan would probably foot the bill.

Dinan's warranty statement also seem to cover consequential damages. Quoting them "The Authorized Dinan Dealer will, without charge for parts or labor, repair or replace the defective Dinan component(s), as well as any original vehicle manufacturer's component(s) that may have been directly affected by a Dinan component, using new or authorized remanufactured parts."

But this is where trouble can arise-- who really decides if the damage is consequential or not? For example, damaging the turbo due to high boost? Direct consequence. Damaging the engine too?? Well, Dinan might say that the engine issue is not caused "directly" due to the tune. On the other hand BMW might not cover the repair too citing the tune. Another example: a problem in transmission, BMW "might" just say that the transmission got damaged due to the higher than rated torque, while Dinan might claim that transmission failure has nothing to do with a mere tune.

It is these kind of open questions that prompted me to start this thread. The feeler I get at this stage is to just make sure that the Dinan dealer is also your BMW dealer to help prevent these kind of issues.
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      01-01-2013, 12:42 PM   #9
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My dealer is a Dinan dealer.

I would only consider doing it there, and it was actually a reason I purchased from them (besides the aggressive pricing).

If I moved, I feel like I could get screwed.
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      01-01-2013, 08:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
No, it does NOT void your warranty. That's a ridiculous assumption - and would certainly not explain how I have had Dinan on both new and CPO cars and never had any issues with warranty, including the extended CPO warranty that goes beyond the 4/50 factory warranty. You pay more for Dinan equipment and software because they stand behind their products with a parallel warranty. Parallel, as in "in addition to", not replacement. So let's set the record straight here - Dinan DOES NOT VOID YOUR WARRANTY!
So let's set the record straight here - YOU'RE WRONG.

Yes, BMW does void your warranty if you have a Dinan tune depending on the dealer. Some dealers still work with Dinan, others don't. AZ dealers will not warranty any engine/tranny/fuel pump/etc. failures if the car has a Dinan tune. I've had this discussion with them and have possessed Dinan tunes myself....in Arizona. They won't CPO cars either.

What happened with you and Dinan in the past is no longer valid; BMW and Dinan have fallen out of bed, in part due to BMW coming out with their own performance line.
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      01-01-2013, 08:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
Now that it appears that the PPK is likely going to be offered just for the M-Sport line, I was wondering if Dinan is reasonable alternative for folks (with non-M sports) who would like to retain warranty, yet get a tune.

Dinan's warranty is not the same as factory warranty. There have been threads where people claimed that upon engine/transmission failure it might be possible to get stuck between Dinan and BMW dealer, each blaming the other and not accepting to do the repair under their respective warranties.

Would you be willing to take this risk, if the BMW dealer is also a Dinan authorized center?

Here in AZ, no BMW dealers do Dinan jobs anymore. Would you take the risk if the Dinan center is not a BMW dealer?

From experience in AZ, don't go with Dinan for a few reasons.

1. There are only 2 authorized Dinan dealers in AZ, both in Phoenix.....and they're both not great. The dealer in Scottsdale is run by a lying crook.

2. When BMW does a software update to your car you'll have to drag your butt back to a Dinan dealer to get your car reflashed if the update erases the tune. I had to drop my car off for at least half a day to a day probably 4 times a year. Very annoying.

3. You pay a huge premium for Dinan which isn't worth it anymore because you don't get the benefit in Arizona of having your car's powertrain be warranty-able directly by BMW, and I have read of instances where both Dinan and BMW refused to warranty someone's car problems and both played the blame game.

4. Due to #2 and #3, I would wait and get a tune that comes on a handheld device that plugs into your car like the one ESS Tuning has for the E90 series cars. You'll get better performance gains, pay half as much, and won't have to go out of your way to get your car reflashed at a Dinan center multiple times per year.
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      01-02-2013, 07:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbs View Post
From experience in AZ, don't go with Dinan for a few reasons.

1. There are only 2 authorized Dinan dealers in AZ, both in Phoenix.....and they're both not great. The dealer in Scottsdale is run by a lying crook.

2. When BMW does a software update to your car you'll have to drag your butt back to a Dinan dealer to get your car reflashed if the update erases the tune. I had to drop my car off for at least half a day to a day probably 4 times a year. Very annoying.

3. You pay a huge premium for Dinan which isn't worth it anymore because you don't get the benefit in Arizona of having your car's powertrain be warranty-able directly by BMW, and I have read of instances where both Dinan and BMW refused to warranty someone's car problems and both played the blame game.

4. Due to #2 and #3, I would wait and get a tune that comes on a handheld device that plugs into your car like the one ESS Tuning has for the E90 series cars. You'll get better performance gains, pay half as much, and won't have to go out of your way to get your car reflashed at a Dinan center multiple times per year.
Just because Arizona dealers don't work with Dinan doesn't mean that your warranty is voided by BMW - so YOU are WRONG as far as that goes. It's a dealer policy, not a BMW policy. If you feel that it's better to lie to your dealer about having a non-Dinan tune, that's your business, but here in Texas nearly all the dealers are Dinan dealers as well, and the ones that aren't won't refuse warranty work if you have Dinan. So your narrow perspective really doesn't have any validitiy outside your situation.

Secondly, yes, you do have to re-flash your Dinan software after you get an ECU update, same as you would using someone else's flash tune. The two times this has happened to my present car, my dealership knows it has Dinan and they re-flash it for free during the same visit. This does NOT occur multiple times a year - so far, it's twice in 5 years for me. So again, your arguments aren't just aren't valid outside your own circumstances.

Sorry your dealerships in AZ are such hardasses, but it's their loss, and apparently yours as well. You get caught with a non-Dinan (or non-BMW PPK) tune and you REALLY get your warranty voided, no matter where you take the car. Choice is yours, but let's not spread inaccurate information.
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      01-02-2013, 08:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbs View Post
From experience in AZ, don't go with Dinan for a few reasons.

1. There are only 2 authorized Dinan dealers in AZ, both in Phoenix.....and they're both not great. The dealer in Scottsdale is run by a lying crook.

2. When BMW does a software update to your car you'll have to drag your butt back to a Dinan dealer to get your car reflashed if the update erases the tune. I had to drop my car off for at least half a day to a day probably 4 times a year. Very annoying.

3. You pay a huge premium for Dinan which isn't worth it anymore because you don't get the benefit in Arizona of having your car's powertrain be warranty-able directly by BMW, and I have read of instances where both Dinan and BMW refused to warranty someone's car problems and both played the blame game.

4. Due to #2 and #3, I would wait and get a tune that comes on a handheld device that plugs into your car like the one ESS Tuning has for the E90 series cars. You'll get better performance gains, pay half as much, and won't have to go out of your way to get your car reflashed at a Dinan center multiple times per year.
Just because Dinan is not a good option for you because of your location does not mean Dinan is a bad choice. Dinan is an excellent choice if you want the piece of mind that your car is still protected by a warranty.

BMW does not update the car software as often as you suggest. They rarely do it once a year....
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      01-02-2013, 09:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
No, it does NOT void your warranty. That's a ridiculous assumption - and would certainly not explain how I have had Dinan on both new and CPO cars and never had any issues with warranty, including the extended CPO warranty that goes beyond the 4/50 factory warranty. You pay more for Dinan equipment and software because they stand behind their products with a parallel warranty. Parallel, as in "in addition to", not replacement. So let's set the record straight here - Dinan DOES NOT VOID YOUR WARRANTY!
If you purchased a car that was CPO'd the added then Dinan. Dinan will cover the warranty from that point on. I have attached the service bulletin showing that as of 9-1-08 Dinan modified vehicles will not be accepted into the CPO program
Attached Images
File Type: pdf 32_U_08_Summary_of_CPO_Program_Changes[80603668].pdf (71.1 KB, 550 views)
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      01-02-2013, 11:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cchrisv View Post
Just because Dinan is not a good option for you because of your location does not mean Dinan is a bad choice. Dinan is an excellent choice if you want the piece of mind that your car is still protected by a warranty.

BMW does not update the car software as often as you suggest. They rarely do it once a year....
The person who started this thread asking for advice lives in Arizona, and that is who I was directly responding to; I wasn't addressing everyone as a blanket statement.

My F30 got a software update within 1 month of me owning it already, and my E92 was updated multiple times a year during the 2.5 years I had it. I have the service records to prove it.
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      01-02-2013, 12:13 PM   #16
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Just to reiterate, I'm posting with the original poster in mind who is from Arizona and has to deal with the same stuff I've already gone through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Just because Arizona dealers don't work with Dinan doesn't mean that your warranty is voided by BMW - so YOU are WRONG as far as that goes. It's a dealer policy, not a BMW policy. If you feel that it's better to lie to your dealer about having a non-Dinan tune, that's your business, but here in Texas nearly all the dealers are Dinan dealers as well, and the ones that aren't won't refuse warranty work if you have Dinan. So your narrow perspective really doesn't have any validitiy outside your situation.
The original poster and I both live in Arizona so what happens to you in Texas is moot. So my narrow perspective completely applies to the person who started this thread asking the question. You're giving him information that does not apply in Arizona.

Dealers in AZ flat out told me if my warranty is voided from something they deemed to be Dinan related my car would be flagged in BMW's system (not just one dealer), and it would show up in BMW's ENTIRE system, thus able to be seen by all dealerships that my warranty had been voided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Secondly, yes, you do have to re-flash your Dinan software after you get an ECU update, same as you would using someone else's flash tune. The two times this has happened to my present car, my dealership knows it has Dinan and they re-flash it for free during the same visit. This does NOT occur multiple times a year - so far, it's twice in 5 years for me. So again, your arguments aren't just aren't valid outside your own circumstances.
Getting a Dinan reflash isn't the same as anyone else's tune.

1. BMW dealers in AZ don't have Dinan software, won't give it to you, thus forcing you to drive to one of only two location in Phoenix to get a Dinan reflash, where you have to drop your car off for usually half a day. BMW provides loaners so you can go about your way for the day and pick up at your convenience, Dinan dealers do not, so you have to sit in their lobby for a long time, or have to inconvenience someone to follow you there and drop you back off. We as individuals can't do our own Dinan updates.

2. With the E9x 335i you could get a handheld tuner tool that would allow you to remove the tune if you so desire before going into a bmw dealer, but more importantly reinstall it after a BMW dealer reflashes/updates in just 30 minutes in the comfort of your own home without having to deal with the hassle of driving to get a reflash at a Dinan location. Much less hassle, period.

3. I should have been a bit more clear, the Dinan program gets erased during software updates OR if the dealership decides to reflash your software due to other problems they're trying to fix maintenance/repair problems. My car got a few updates due to BMW trying to resolve the high pressure fuel pump issues alone, and reflashed my computer (not update) while trying to troubleshoot or resolve other issues. This led to me literally having to get my Dinan software redone about 4 times a year. It may be more for others, less for some, but this was my experience for 2.5 years of ownership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Sorry your dealerships in AZ are such hardasses, but it's their loss, and apparently yours as well. You get caught with a non-Dinan (or non-BMW PPK) tune and you REALLY get your warranty voided, no matter where you take the car. Choice is yours, but let's not spread inaccurate information.
You're the one who made the false blanket statement of "Dinan doesn't void your warranty," period, when in fact, in AZ it will if it results in a problem.

My point is if you're going to take the risk of having a tune which is equal across all tunes in Arizona where the original poster is from, don't waste your money on Dinan.
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      01-02-2013, 02:00 PM   #17
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Dinan answers the warranty question here. Some key passages include:

"The installation of Dinan Performance Products and systems may affect the vehicle manufacturer's new car limited warranty. The vehicle manufacturer's new car limited warranty may not apply to modifications to a vehicle or the installation of any performance accessories or components attached to the vehicle which substantially alter the original engineering and/or operating specifications or which result in damage to other original vehicle manufacturer's components."

In other words BMW 'may not' (for practical intents and purposes 'will not') warrant Dinan products. This looks to me like it's the same warranty policy as any reputable tuning company. Our local dealerships, in conjunction with the BMW corporate regional reps, would treat a fault that they considered caused by Dinan the same way they would one caused by a Helix part: they would deny the warranty fix.
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      01-02-2013, 02:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric@helix View Post
Dinan answers the warranty question here. Some key passages include:

"The installation of Dinan Performance Products and systems may affect the vehicle manufacturer's new car limited warranty. The vehicle manufacturer's new car limited warranty may not apply to modifications to a vehicle or the installation of any performance accessories or components attached to the vehicle which substantially alter the original engineering and/or operating specifications or which result in damage to other original vehicle manufacturer's components."

In other words BMW 'may not' (for practical intents and purposes 'will not') warrant Dinan products. This looks to me like it's the same warranty policy as any reputable tuning company. Our local dealerships, in conjunction with the BMW corporate regional reps, would treat a fault that they considered caused by Dinan the same way they would one caused by a Helix part: they would deny the warranty fix.
Have you guys started to offer anything for the F30 body style yet?
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      01-02-2013, 03:19 PM   #19
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We're in final development for the intercooler. When we launch our new website, there'll be a full F30 section with products. Stay tuned.
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      01-03-2013, 09:01 AM   #20
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Great question - one that I am grappling with internally as well.

There is something to be said about having a car that is BMW-blessed - not only from a warranty and hassle perspective, but also from a resale perspective.

I'm fairly conservative in these matters, so I'll probably opt for the PPK (sans stickers, obviously). But, I will certainly be missing the extra hp/tq of the Dinan tune.

Anyone here have experience (good or bad) with Dinan tunes in the GTA (I think Budd's is the only authorized Dinan dealer)?

Is it possible to purchase an extended warranty on the car if the car has been Dinan-tuned?
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      01-03-2013, 10:50 AM   #21
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We're in final development for the intercooler. When we launch our new website, there'll be a full F30 section with products. Stay tuned.
Perfect, I look forward to it!
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      01-03-2013, 12:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Economist View Post
Great question - one that I am grappling with internally as well.

There is something to be said about having a car that is BMW-blessed - not only from a warranty and hassle perspective, but also from a resale perspective.

I'm fairly conservative in these matters, so I'll probably opt for the PPK (sans stickers, obviously). But, I will certainly be missing the extra hp/tq of the Dinan tune.

Anyone here have experience (good or bad) with Dinan tunes in the GTA (I think Budd's is the only authorized Dinan dealer)?

Is it possible to purchase an extended warranty on the car if the car has been Dinan-tuned?
Please see the attachment in my post above(post #14). It will answer the last question for you..
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