[L8*Apex]

Originally Posted by KSERGEI-BY

In fact - diesel+manual is a choice of a masochist. [Big] Diesel+auto works perfect. IE : X5 3.5D is such an incredible car.

Count me as a masochist. Currently own a 2010 Jetta Diesel with a manual trans. Love it. Would consider trading it in only for another diesel. All the better if it has a MT. So glad BMW is bringing the diesels.

[F104]

Originally Posted by ellekz

Can't believe how excited people are in the states about the 4cyl-Diesels

I can assure you, the mileage is f#cking crazy on these things.

Just for the fun of it I once rode my car (320d E92) really really hard for a trip Berlin->Nuremberg and the pedal was _always_ on the floor (it's the Autobahn ). It was a 400km trip (~250miles) and I made it in 2 hours (lots of construction on the way). I resetted the mileage beforehand and ended up with a confirmed 8.6l/100km, which is over 27mpg US !! And believe me, I was NOT taking it slow at any point, always trying to hit the speed limiter (155mph) as soon as possible.

At first, this doesn't sound like that great of a number. But try to do 250miles in 2 hours with a gas engine and you end up at probably much less than 15mpg.

When I drive a little slower (~100mph) the mileage is about 34mpg. Cruising at ~75mph it's around 40-45mpg. And all of these are real life numbers and not some piece of paper made in a vacuum.

0-62 in ~7.5s stock but I have a software tune and 0-62 is ~6.9s. The torque is f*cking crazy though.


Drawbacks:

* DPF sucks if you're from the city

* Can't do anything with the exhaust (mostly because of the DPF)

* Revving engine sounds boring; standing at traffic lights though, I don't hear any engine noise because the engine turns itself off

* The turbo lag... back then I wished the 123d-engine was available in the E92 which has a small and a large turbo and THAT thing is amazing.

* No ~50/50 weight distribution anymore because the diesel engine is heavier, which leads to more understeer if you're on the race track

* No revs.. it's not a race car after all and you shouldn't confuse it for one


I know most of the real cool stuff about driving a BMW gets lost (weight distribution, high revs, awesome engine sound, ...) but still: if you want a really awesome daily driver with simply amazing mileage - this is it.

By the way: The diesel fuel here also costs ~1eur less per gallon, so you save twice. And diesel fuel here has ~7% biodiesel in it (I think someone said earlier the BMW diesel engine can't handle that bio-crap mixed into the fuel?)

Edit:
I also wanted to say something about BMW doesn't understand the US market. I don't think they're stupid. This has something to do with image. I think in the US the BMW-brand has much more prestige than it does here and that's because you get (mostly) only the amazing cars and engines. Becoming too mainstream is just that - going mainstream. Some people who want to buy an M6, probably don't want to get associated with an 114i or 116d. In a market like yours, you can't expect people to pay that much money for a car that "everyone" has. I think the US mainstream market is dominated too much by US and Asian cars. They can probably make more money focusing on the upper class than there.
Just guessing.

nice post but:
-8.6/100 is sky high for a remapped (as you have) 320D. I've done Koln-Hanover and back quite a few times at 220-240 kph, 7.5/100 max. I have the Evole remap
- The 320d does have 50/50 weight distribution. much easier on a 4 cylinder, where even the diesel engine is lighter than a 6 cyl petrol, and the centre of gravity of the engine is further away from the front axle. That is why it corners fairly well.
- Turbolag.. Well obviously you never data logged it, I have. The 320d uses one of the most costly turbo technologies currently available, an electrically controlled variable geometry turbo. It does perform. You will have max boost from 1200rpm onwards, immediately, when you put your foot down. BMW will rather use the twin scroll in future as it is cheaper and similar in performance.

[mkoesel]

Thanks SCOTT. None of that was too surprising - it is as many already guessed. Two things:

- Any idea when we may see a similar diesel announcement from MINI regarding the US market?

- We know the M50d N57S is not coming. But what about the chances for the N57TT in 35d/40d form for the 3, 5, 7 or F15 X5 in the US in the future? I would think those would prove popular in the US, especially the X5.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

With the inclusion of diesel into the US Market it is important not to get too carried away.

In regards to what models will benefit
It will be the 3er , 5er , X1 and X3. There will not be a 3er Touring Diesel because the market is not big enough to support a Touring diesel if you want utility with diesel it will be the X1 , X3 and even the MINI Countryman you will be pointed in the direction of.
Do not expect BMW to offer diesel equivalent of the 4er or 6er in North America because these are cars that are seen (and will always be seen) from a different perspective in their sporty-luxury positioning.

The reason why no manual is that BMW do not see the market for diesel cars fitted with a manual to be worth the extra investment but no one is missing out as the eight speed transmission is a great benefit to BMW's diesel engines.

The M50d is not coming to the USA. Because that engine is not US certified.

[Xcution]

OK great new...now hurry up and throw this in the F30 for a 320d and let me go buy it tomorrow.

[535desire]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

With the inclusion of diesel into the US Market it is important not to get too carried away.....

In regards to what models will benefit
It will be the 3er , 5er , X1 and X3. There will not be a 3er Touring Diesel because the market is not big enough to support a Touring diesel if you want utility with diesel it will be the X1 , X3 and even the MINI Countryman you will be pointed in the direction of.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You're seeing a bunch of enthusiasm on this thread because it is a great thing for BMW and diesel lovers

[fredzy]

I was quite pumped to hear all this, but the no 6-speed thing in the 3 touring is a real bummer. I'm assuming it will be the case with the diesel as well.

I did NOT know BMW's diesels use urea injection over here... a slight inconvenience but I'm sure it has a lot to do with the staggering mpg reports, very worthwhile.

*edit* reading SCOTT26's comments, I'm realizing a 3 touring diesel is probably not in the cards for the US at all.

[Touring]

Strange that the US marked with 300 million people is to small to support a 320d with manual, but they sell it to small countries like Norway with 5 mill.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by Touring

Strange that the US marked with 300 million people is to small to support a 320d with manual, but they sell it to small countries like Norway with 5 mill.

Most people here haven't seen how great new diesel engines are so the market is very small compared to in places like Europe where the majority of cars sold are diesel. That's why I'm excited about BMWNA's decision to bring these two engines over, it will start to increase the marketshare for diesels as people realize they can save a lot of money without giving up too much else.

There are those of us who prefer the sound and power (and power delivery) of a gas engine, but the majority of people would be happier with a cheaper diesel.

[535desire]

Originally Posted by Touring

Strange that the US marked with 300 million people is to small to support a 320d with manual, but they sell it to small countries like Norway with 5 mill.

I'm assuming there is no certification of each powertrain (engine+transmission) by Norway as there is in the US by our Environmental Protection Agency, due to your trade agreements. This is not a trivial expense for the automaker to incur here in the US, so BMW places a safe bet and brings over the model their market analysis says would sell the easiest.

[Touring]

OK, yes, I guess whats certified in Germany is certified here too :-)

I was planning to buy a 328i, but after reading all this Im going for a 320xd. Im brainwashed! :-)

[111R]

BMW doesn't bring the 1 series 5 door hatch with diesel power to the US market, so we pulled the trigger on a new 2013 Audi A3 TDI for my wife. She doesn't want a car as large as the new 3 series and doesn't want a SUV/crossover. I know that the 1 series hatch is kind of homely, but rear drive and 45+ mpg would be nice.

The other thing that turned me off of having a 2nd BMW in the fleet was the lack of a dipstick and run-flat tires. I know that dead horse has been beaten beyond all reason, but it was a factor.

I know the A3 is a fancy Golf, but the VW dealer experience hasn't been a good one for us in the past, so we thought we'd give Audi a shot. I really wanted her to go for a BMW, but they didn't have anything she wanted.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Touring

Strange that the US marked with 300 million people is to small to support a 320d with manual, but they sell it to small countries like Norway with 5 mill.

Not all 300 Million citizens can afford a BMW.
People choosing manual BMW or MINI in the US is in decline , per year numbers continuously drop.

The more powerful diesels might be on the cards for later but there is no plans as yet.
Although I did hear that they plan to give the upcoming BMW X4 Sport Activity Coupe the N57S M50d model in regards to take the fight to the upcoming Porsche Macan alongside the BMW X4M - A car that will take priority after the M3/M4 is finalized. Because in some markets the BMW X6M outsells the M3 , BMW see the X4M as possibly outselling them both.
One thing about the X6 is it is not only successful as a new vehicle but also as an approved vehicle. An advantage X4 aims to fill for those that want an X6 but cannot stretch to even new or approved price mark.

More on the X4M tomorrow.

[shvydkist]

There is a god.

[SoCali E36]

Here's the article I was talking about getting over 1000 miles on a tank.



http://www.carsuk.net/bmw-320d-efficientdynamics-the-eco-drive/

[Taunto]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Glad they are bringing the four-cylinder diesel here. I think generally the reason anyone would buy a diesel is for the fuel economy. While the 335d is a monster, it was more expensive than the 335i and being a 6 cylinder, the mileage was good, but not great. A four cylinder diesel, cheaper than the 335i (hopefully) and I'd guess a roughly 45 MPG EPA highway rating sounds like a more appealing choice financially over a gas car. Probably something people weren't able to justify with the 335i/335d choice.

280 ft.lbs will still make it a decently brisk car in real-world driving situations.

I agree with you as the cost and fuel efficency is much more affordable, but you also half to factor in that any parts needing replaced cost more being a diesel engine. That being said i still believe the 4cylinder diesels will have a big impact here in NA.

[cmk227]

Scott26, I think that BMW need to provide the option to the consumer. For example if you look at what you Guys are doing z1....z4, x1....x6, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 series not including the ///M models than you are adding a vehicle for every market segment why not have a universal manual that can fit the normal series cars and a special one for the high performance ones.

As a consumer I have owned 3 manual ///M. My replacement SUV will be the diesel X5 but would love a diesel X6. The next ///M will be a manual. I would have paid more for a manual option just to have it. The way I look at it is when you spend $100k- $120k on a new M5 or M6, I better get exactly what I want.

Please pass it along and thank you or bringing a 320d to the US.

[bandwagn]

320xd 6MT would be quite interesting.

If BMW does need a business case, I do think that most enthusiasts would be willing to pay a modest ($500-$1000) for a manual option across the model line. Especially now that the auto is a default no charge option and you have to make a cognizant decision to row your own.

It's not the cost, it's the choice.

[KSERGEI-BY]

Originally Posted by L8*Apex

Count me as a masochist. Currently own a 2010 Jetta Diesel with a manual trans. Love it. Would consider trading it in only for another diesel. All the better if it has a MT. So glad BMW is bringing the diesels.

Sorry, but as an ex owner of a small diesel + mt (it was a pure badget and temporary car). No offense, maybe I just not understanding something... but in my experience (I love diesels, im not pro-petrol guy, I have diesel car with AT) : diesels are known to be short of revs, so you have to shift often and earlier, as they dont like red zone too. Besides - this new BMW ATs has manual mode, so basically buying AT you gonna have more gears and semi-manual mode for fun. And, as you noticed, you have one of the VW l4 diesels (my family also has one in the Audi A4 1.9tdi MT), there is kind of difference - VW is making reliable L4s, BMW is making reliable L6s. Make no mistake thinking they BMW L4 and VW L4 are equel.

Europe is massively buying cars with diesel+mt+no-leather-no options just because cars are much expensive in Europe (LOL!!!) and fuel is expensive too. This is pure money matter here.

[roundle]

Originally Posted by 111R

BMW doesn't bring the 1 series 5 door hatch with diesel power to the US market, so we pulled the trigger on a new 2013 Audi A3 TDI for my wife. She doesnt' want a car as large as the new 3 series and doesn't want a SUV/crossover. I know that the 1 series hatch is kind of homely, but rear drive and 45+ mpg would be nice.

The other thing that turned me off of having a 2nd BMW in the fleet was the lack of a dipstick and run-flat tires. I know that dead horse has been beaten beyond all reason, but it was a factor.

I know the A3 is a fancy Golf, but the VW dealer experience hasn't been a good one for us in the past, so we thought we'd give Audi a shot. I really wanted her to go for a BMW, but they didn't have anything she wanted.

A3 TDI is a great car. If they sold it with AWD, a lot more people would consider it.

[juice13]

Originally Posted by KSERGEI-BY

Sorry, but as an ex owner of a small diesel + mt (it was a pure badget and temporary car). No offense, maybe I just not understanding something... but in my experience (I love diesels, im not pro-petrol guy, I have diesel car with AT) : diesels are known to be short of revs, so you have to shift often and earlier, as they dont like red zone too. Besides - this new BMW ATs has manual mode, so basically buying AT you gonna have more gears and semi-manual mode for fun. And, as you noticed, you have one of the VW l4 diesels (my family also has one in the Audi A4 1.9tdi MT), there is kind of difference - VW is making reliable L4s, BMW is making reliable L6s. Make no mistake thinking they BMW L4 and VW L4 are equel.

Europe is massively buying cars with diesel+mt+no-leather-no options just because cars are much expensive in Europe (LOL!!!) and fuel is expensive too. This is pure money matter here.

To expand on your thoughts:

I'm supposing that most Americans asking for a manual transmission diesel BMW have not driven one.

I cannot think of a better way to suck the fun out of driving than pairing a torque monster turbo diesel to a close ratio 6 speed manual tranny.

Rented an X3 diesel something about 6 years ago in France and thought that I got lucky with the 6 speed manual.

Fast forward 100 miles of rural, winding through little country town roads - perfect, mind you for a spirited drive - and here I was ready to punch myself in the nuts to get out of driving this, for lack of a better word, work truck. Reminded me of the Cummings turbo diesel dually Ram with the Reading toolbox I had to drive during my summer roofing.

Just when the fun begins in a diesel, it's time to switch gears. And then it's like the power just disappears. My kingdom for an automatic with a decent torque converter!

The entire experience turned me off from diesels. I'll might give them another try with the new 8 speed auto.

I am glad that these new engines are available in the states and understand why they wouldn't mate them to a stick shift.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The more powerful diesels might be on the cards for later but there is no plans as yet.

Fair enough then. Thanks for the dialogue. No hints about when we might see a Mini D or SD in the US? Perhaps this is an F56 discussion.

Although I did hear that they plan to give the upcoming BMW X4 Sport Activity Coupe the N57S M50d model in regards to take the fight to the upcoming Porsche Macan alongside the BMW X4M - A car that will take priority after the M3/M4 is finalized. Because in some markets the BMW X6M outsells the M3 , BMW see the X4M as possibly outselling them both.
...

More on the X4M tomorrow.

Intriguing.

[bigriffi]

Originally Posted by Junkyard

But can the engines use diesel blended with bio-diesel? If not, you wind up searching for a station that does not use any additives (at least in the Midwest).

Yep good point. I just ended my lease of my 335d and got a 528xi. I miss the diesel but got increasingly frustrated with the proliferation of bio diesel AND the lack of "real" diesel. I seriously think this is a real problem, especially in Chicago. I had a chance to get a deal on a X5d, but passed for this reason alone.