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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > HARTGE N20 F30 28i Engine Software Tune Yields +45 HP / +48 TQ for F30, F10, F25, E89
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      06-28-2012, 08:51 PM   #23
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Burger Motorsports has a beta piggy back tune for the f30 328i. It's under $400 and offers comparable gains. Plus, their customer service and transparent testing and development are excellent. In my opinion, this is a better value.
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      06-28-2012, 09:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJG1137 View Post
Burger Motorsports has a beta piggy back tune for the f30 328i. It's under $400 and offers comparable gains. Plus, their customer service and transparent testing and development are excellent. In my opinion, this is a better value.
I think twice with BMS stuff, had it for my N52. Started to get weird engine lights and my cat sensors went cause the PBX was running too rich.

Piggyback's suck.
But if something from Hartage or Kellener I would trust.
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      06-28-2012, 10:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSum
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJG1137 View Post
Burger Motorsports has a beta piggy back tune for the f30 328i. It's under $400 and offers comparable gains. Plus, their customer service and transparent testing and development are excellent. In my opinion, this is a better value.
I think twice with BMS stuff, had it for my N52. Started to get weird engine lights and my cat sensors went cause the PBX was running too rich.

Piggyback's suck.
But if something from Hartage or Kellener I would trust.
N52 is a little different. Not turbo.
I've had a BMS tune on my n55 for over a year now and have not had a single issue.
If issues were present to the extent that we should be thinking twice, I think the thousands of jb users would have made it clear.
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      06-28-2012, 10:30 PM   #26
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What's The Point

You buy a 328I. It has the same mpg figures as a 335I. You buy this piggyback ECU and make the 328I have similar HP and TQ as a 335I for $1600 plus install. WHY???? Why the headache of dealing with possible warranty issues? For an extra $1600 when you bought the 328I you could have had a 335I and saved yourself the trouble. I am not getting the point of this IMHO......
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      06-28-2012, 11:51 PM   #27
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number are promising. just the fact it's $1600!!! wow.
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      06-29-2012, 12:08 AM   #28
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It is a piggyback. Why are you worried about what your dealer says. If something goes bad is your dealer going to come to your house and see the piggyback sitting in your garage and say "Ah this was on your car when it broke therefore we are not going to honor the warranty."
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      06-29-2012, 09:52 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJG1137 View Post
N52 is a little different. Not turbo.
I've had a BMS tune on my n55 for over a year now and have not had a single issue.
If issues were present to the extent that we should be thinking twice, I think the thousands of jb users would have made it clear.
I've seen enough cars using the BMS tune throw many significant errors and shadow codes that quite possibly be trouble-sum on your end to claim warranty if BMW were to see it. Just because your engine light doesn't come on, it doesn't mean that the car isn't logging some data that can indicate a tune/piggy.
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      06-29-2012, 11:33 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335if30uae View Post
I am not part of any vender offering any kind of modification but my concern is about the warranty issues any one can face by installing a piggy back and end up with warrenty issues .
I agree. For that price point one is better off waiting for the Dinan unit and letting the BMW center install it. That way it is worry free and you kepe the warranty intact.
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      06-29-2012, 11:35 AM   #31
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Anyone notice the different launch methods used on the stock and Modded runs?
-Stock run: dead stop in drive start
-Hartage run: neutral, rev, then drive start. Is this sort of equivalent to torque braking starts? Seems like the transmission is engaging at higher revs from start giving it a jump.

Just wondering if this could explain some of that huge difference we see. A bit more than I was expecting in the 0-100.
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      06-29-2012, 12:11 PM   #32
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Waiting for ac-schnitzerto come out with one.
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      06-29-2012, 12:17 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mav555 View Post
Anyone notice the different launch methods used on the stock and Modded runs?
-Stock run: dead stop in drive start
-Hartage run: neutral, rev, then drive start. Is this sort of equivalent to torque braking starts? Seems like the transmission is engaging at higher revs from start giving it a jump.

Just wondering if this could explain some of that huge difference we see. A bit more than I was expecting in the 0-100.
Noticed it too. A 4-second difference in 0-100mph is unreal; BMS only claims 2 seconds off the time with their tune.
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      06-29-2012, 12:28 PM   #34
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this is sweet. 1600$ is fair price imho. As soon as i can order a hardtop convertible, my wife is getting one and I am chipping it with Hartge.de sweetness. Stop crying about 1600$ when i see guys spending 7-8k on wheels. lol.
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      06-29-2012, 05:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja Ventureshield View Post
this is sweet. 1600$ is fair price imho. As soon as i can order a hardtop convertible, my wife is getting one and I am chipping it with Hartge.de sweetness. Stop crying about 1600$ when i see guys spending 7-8k on wheels. lol.
wrong, most of the guys crying about 1600$ for a tune are running replica wheels.
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      06-29-2012, 08:43 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSum View Post
wrong, most of the guys crying about 1600$ for a tune are running replica wheels.
my bad. you got me. lol. replica wheels.

seriously in all wellness, R&D isn't free.
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      06-30-2012, 04:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage149 View Post
You buy a 328I. It has the same mpg figures as a 335I. You buy this piggyback ECU and make the 328I have similar HP and TQ as a 335I for $1600 plus install. WHY???? Why the headache of dealing with possible warranty issues? For an extra $1600 when you bought the 328I you could have had a 335I and saved yourself the trouble. I am not getting the point of this IMHO......
No, the 328 does not have the same MPG figures as the 335, and it weighs less too.

You're not wrong to question the value proposition here; when you factor in packages and such, the 335 is not THAT much more expensive than the 328. However, it's not really an apples to apples comparison, as the 328 gets better mileage and is STILL cheaper, and the N20 is definitely a gem of an engine. Plus, there will likely be models that you can't obtain in 335 guise *cough, touring, cough*.
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      06-30-2012, 08:35 PM   #38
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One has to remember that there are other countries outside the US where duties are charged based on engine size.

In those countries you can pay 100% of the cost of the car extra in duties, vat, freight and markup for a car with an engine size over a 2.0.

A 1M in the Caribbean, for example, costs almost USD$150,000 .

So to purchase the 328i and have a performance boost mod would be extremely attractive.
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      07-01-2012, 08:51 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M
Quote:
Originally Posted by caneswarning View Post
It is a piggyback. Why are you worried about what your dealer says. If something goes bad is your dealer going to come to your house and see the piggyback sitting in your garage and say "Ah this was on your car when it broke therefore we are not going to honor the warranty."
I am sure he is not "worried", but has higher morals standards & just wanted further advice.

Coincidentally, doing as you suggest^ shows no honor, no self respect and is down right posing... as posers just want cheap thrills and want other to be responsible for it.
Every now and again someone gets it's, you sir, get it.

Thank you.

Cheers,
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      07-01-2012, 12:40 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja Ventureshield View Post
my bad. you got me. lol. replica wheels.

seriously in all wellness, R&D isn't free.
I agree.
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      07-02-2012, 03:02 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rconti
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage149 View Post
You buy a 328I. It has the same mpg figures as a 335I. You buy this piggyback ECU and make the 328I have similar HP and TQ as a 335I for $1600 plus install. WHY???? Why the headache of dealing with possible warranty issues? For an extra $1600 when you bought the 328I you could have had a 335I and saved yourself the trouble. I am not getting the point of this IMHO......
No, the 328 does not have the same MPG figures as the 335, and it weighs less too.

You're not wrong to question the value proposition here; when you factor in packages and such, the 335 is not THAT much more expensive than the 328. However, it's not really an apples to apples comparison, as the 328 gets better mileage and is STILL cheaper, and the N20 is definitely a gem of an engine. Plus, there will likely be models that you can't obtain in 335 guise *cough, touring, cough*.
What he said!
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      07-02-2012, 06:39 AM   #42
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ummm.... yeaaaaa, so they lost 4 second with 50hp, ha ha ha, ROFL, that is hillarious. I am willing to bet that the road conditions are different (i.e. incline / decline).

Never the less, the N20 is an amazing engine. My GF has the new 328 with sport package, and I had a chance to break it in on the abahn! It drives really well. From previous comparo notes, the 335 has advantage only above 100mph, and even then it's not that big of a difference (difference between m3 and 335 is a lot greater at those speeds).
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      07-02-2012, 07:26 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSum View Post
I think twice with BMS stuff, had it for my N52. Started to get weird engine lights and my cat sensors went cause the PBX was running too rich. Piggyback's suck.

Are you sure it was installed correctly?
Had mine installed in my 325i since Nov '09. Hasn't missed a beat. Perfect for my car. Love the piggyback system from BMS.
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      07-05-2012, 02:01 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David325Australia View Post
Are you sure it was installed correctly?
Had mine installed in my 325i since Nov '09. Hasn't missed a beat. Perfect for my car. Love the piggyback system from BMS.
I'm pretty sure it has been installed properly...
I had it on my car since 60,000km the issue started to happen around 130,000KM. I'm at 150,000KM already.
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