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      07-04-2012, 10:57 PM   #1
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Adjustable suspension and variable ratio steering

Those of you who have the adaptive suspension, can you comment on your likes and dislikes?
How does it compare to the standard sport suspension?
Hopefully you've driven the standard sport line suspension and can give a comparison.
I'm interested in whether or not the adaptive is any firmer in sport mode compared to the standard sport suspension.

Also, those who have the variable ratio steering rack, your likes and dislikes?
Please compare the VSS with the standard rack in your driving experience.
When the ratio changes over to standard ratio, can you feel the change?
Does the standard ratio take over only during parking lot maneuvers when you really crank the steering wheel.
When driving on twisty roads, is it noticeable that you aren't turning the steering wheel as much to take greater angle turns?

I'm considering adding the dynamic handling package that includes both of these options.
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      07-04-2012, 11:02 PM   #2
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I noticed the VSS in the parking lot and during slow tight turns. For $1000, the dynamic handling package is a bit of a deal compared to last year's model when it was $1200 for both. I ordered it and am not looking back. If there's one thing newer BMWs get slammed on, it's poor steering feel. One reason I welcome VSS.
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      07-05-2012, 12:25 AM   #3
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Adaptive M is firmer in Sport mode vs the standard sport suspension and its a lot softer in comfort mode.
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      07-05-2012, 01:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ric124 View Post
Adaptive M is firmer in Sport mode vs the standard sport suspension and its a lot softer in comfort mode.
That's good to know.
In one review I read, the reviewer said that with the adaptive suspension, sport mode was as firm as the standard non adaptive sport suspension, but that comfort mode was softer than the standard sport mode.
The implication was that the adaptive was no firmer in sport, than standard sport all the time, and that the biggest benefit to the adaptive was that you could get a less firm ride for comfort and cruising.

Some questions:
WIth adaptive susp. in sport mode, are both the ride and handling firmer compared to standard sport?
Do you feel less body lean in harder turns?

How about the ride, is adaptive still as comfortable as standard suspension, when you have adaptive in sport?
I like the sport suspension as is, but it could be a bit firmer in ride for my liking.

As for the VSS, I'm still not clear on it, here's why.
A tighter steering ratio would be cool for handling as a certain degree of steering movement would result in greater tire movement.
For example: 10 degrees of steering would give 15 degrees at the tire.
For twisty back roads, you get quicker/more tire steering per given steering wheel movement.

But, from what I'm reading, VSS quickens the steering ratio, more, for parking lots maneuvers where the tires move more per given steering wheel movement.

That's what's confusing me. I like the idea of quicker steering on twisty roads. But according to BMW's description, the steering ratio quickens at big steering inputs for parking lot ease.

Is the steering ratio quicker with VSS, compared to standard, for twisty roads, and then gets even quicker for parking lots?
Or, is the twisty road ratio the same as standard, and then gets quicker for parking lot ease?

Another description I read said that the ratio up to 100 degrees of steering movement is quicker than standard, and then past 100 degress it's the same as the standard rack.

What say you?

One more thing, do you feel VSS has better steering "feel" over standard?
What about steering effort compared to standard?
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      07-05-2012, 06:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolDude196 View Post
Sorry for the slight digression, but does the sport line get the same suspension all the other lines get as standard, or is it sportier than normal?
Sport line and M-sport get a different suspension as standard vs. the modern and luxury lines. This has been referred to as "passive M suspension" or just "sport suspension".
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      07-05-2012, 07:23 AM   #6
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The vss gets quicker the farther you turn, so it may also come in handy on the Stelvio Pass next week! My car is a 2012 so it only cost me $300 to get. So steering is similar to standard from say 90 degrees to180, then the turns start counting for more.
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      07-05-2012, 08:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
That's good to know.
In one review I read, the reviewer said that with the adaptive suspension, sport mode was as firm as the standard non adaptive sport suspension, but that comfort mode was softer than the standard sport mode.
The implication was that the adaptive was no firmer in sport, than standard sport all the time, and that the biggest benefit to the adaptive was that you could get a less firm ride for comfort and cruising.

Some questions:
WIth adaptive susp. in sport mode, are both the ride and handling firmer compared to standard sport?
Do you feel less body lean in harder turns?

How about the ride, is adaptive still as comfortable as standard suspension, when you have adaptive in sport?
I like the sport suspension as is, but it could be a bit firmer in ride for my liking.

As for the VSS, I'm still not clear on it, here's why.
A tighter steering ratio would be cool for handling as a certain degree of steering movement would result in greater tire movement.
For example: 10 degrees of steering would give 15 degrees at the tire.
For twisty back roads, you get quicker/more tire steering per given steering wheel movement.

But, from what I'm reading, VSS quickens the steering ratio, more, for parking lots maneuvers where the tires move more per given steering wheel movement.

That's what's confusing me. I like the idea of quicker steering on twisty roads. But according to BMW's description, the steering ratio quickens at big steering inputs for parking lot ease.

Is the steering ratio quicker with VSS, compared to standard, for twisty roads, and then gets even quicker for parking lots?
Or, is the twisty road ratio the same as standard, and then gets quicker for parking lot ease?

Another description I read said that the ratio up to 100 degrees of steering movement is quicker than standard, and then past 100 degress it's the same as the standard rack.

What say you?

One more thing, do you feel VSS has better steering "feel" over standard?
What about steering effort compared to standard?
I only had my car on the stock sport springs for 4 days and then I switched to H&R Sport. So I cant remember if there was a big difference between the two but what got me to order the Adaptive M was reading a review and they saying it managed the corners a lot better than the regular sport setup.

My advise to you is get them both and you can get your CA to throw them in at invoice price thats what my CA did.

Also get the H&R Sports they eliminate any roll or dips you are going to have in sport mode. Works great with Adaptive M.


I cant really help you on the VSS because the only reason I got them is because my Gti had variable steering too so I said just get what I am used to. I like how it is in tight situations tho where I can get a full lock with less than a full circle of the steering.
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      07-05-2012, 09:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmnoonan View Post
The vss gets quicker the farther you turn, so it may also come in handy on the Stelvio Pass next week! My car is a 2012 so it only cost me $300 to get. So steering is similar to standard from say 90 degrees to180, then the turns start counting for more.
OH.
Doesn't sound like something I'd want.

I'd rather just have a quicker ratio rack. I've never had a problem in parking lots with my E46 or 135i.

I was hoping that VSS had quicker ratio for first 100 or so degrees, over stock.
I love the ratio used in the EVO's. It can be too quick for some at high speeds, as steering inputs can cause bigger steering angle at the tires, but you learn to compensate.
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      07-05-2012, 09:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ric124 View Post
I only had my car on the stock sport springs for 4 days and then I switched to H&R Sport. So I cant remember if there was a big difference between the two but what got me to order the Adaptive M was reading a review and they saying it managed the corners a lot better than the regular sport setup.
Do you recall the article, link?
Did they compare a passive sport vs an adaptive?

I'm not likely to change springs.
Given the roads around here, the standard drop of the sport susp is enough for me. I'm more so interested in better damping control, which the adaptive can give.

In an article I read, the reviewer liked the adaptive susp, but indicated that there wasn't too much difference in sport compared to passive sport. He wrote that the biggest difference was that in comfort mode, the ride was nicer with the adaptive compared to passive sport, which obviously doesn't change. I'm not looking for a smoother ride as I think the passive sport gives a great, smooth, and sporty ride quality.

I'm looking forward to reading the article you mention.
Thanks.
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      07-06-2012, 12:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
Do you recall the article, link?
Did they compare a passive sport vs an adaptive?

I'm not likely to change springs.
Given the roads around here, the standard drop of the sport susp is enough for me. I'm more so interested in better damping control, which the adaptive can give.

In an article I read, the reviewer liked the adaptive susp, but indicated that there wasn't too much difference in sport compared to passive sport. He wrote that the biggest difference was that in comfort mode, the ride was nicer with the adaptive compared to passive sport, which obviously doesn't change. I'm not looking for a smoother ride as I think the passive sport gives a great, smooth, and sporty ride quality.

I'm looking forward to reading the article you mention.
Thanks.
I wish I could remember where I found it but it was around March I think. I know it was after I ordered my car because I actually ordered without the adaptive M and then that review convinced me to change my order.
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      07-06-2012, 01:03 AM   #11
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I actually read I think in Motor Trend when they did the initial article of the 328i in Spain that the Adaptive M suspension is slightly firmer than the passive suspension in sport and sport + and obviously more comfortable in comfort mode. Regardless I'm probably going to go with the passive sports suspension. Less electronics to go wrong.
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      07-06-2012, 10:04 AM   #12
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from Edmunds revierw of active hybrid

The throttle mapping, the transmission's shift strategy and its gearchange times are altered with each switching, and if you order the $1,000 Dynamic Handling package, the stiffness of the shocks changes, too.

We'd strongly recommend this option, not only because it reduces body roll through bends but also because the Comfort setting provides an impressively pillowy ride over broken tarmac. You also get variable-ratio steering with this package, whose weighting is also adjusted by the Driving Dynamics switch, turning meatier in the Sport and Sport+ modes.
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      07-06-2012, 10:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
How about the ride, is adaptive still as comfortable as standard suspension, when you have adaptive in sport?
I like the sport suspension as is, but it could be a bit firmer in ride for my liking.

As for the VSS, I'm still not clear on it, here's why.
A tighter steering ratio would be cool for handling as a certain degree of steering movement would result in greater tire movement.
We are back to the 'different' feel of variable damping, aren't we.

Not had a chance to get in an F30 with the adaptive suspension yet. But if the 5-series is anything to go by, I found the sport setting was a better ride, just that bit firmer, even at low speeds. The active part allows the suspension "to be as soft as possible and firm where necessary". I'm sure we'll read all kinds of opinion on how it feels. Z4 drivers reckon the adaptive sport setting is firmer than the passive sport suspension in their models.

What we really need is graphs of the damping curves. ZF have simplified graphs for generic variable damping, which shows the knee of the rebound, giving much more control at low damper speeds on sport settings. But the curve falls off at higher damper speeds, more so than the typical passive sport suspension setting. This is something Audi users have commented on, as their system reflects that characteristic. So driving normally the adaptive system feels firmer and better controlled, but driving hard and pushing the suspension to the limits, users say it feels less controlled than a passive sport system. I'd not be surprised to find BMW users find the same, as one graph for the 7-series shows this same crossover on the rebound curve.

As to the steering, I've read nothing that suggests the VSS uses a faster rack at mid position. Different software is implied, but nothing which even hints at more than the standard ratio mid point and faster to the ends.

Wish BMW would be more specific about these technical details, rather than we find them out as time has passed by.

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      07-06-2012, 10:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emtrey View Post
from Edmunds revierw of active hybrid

The throttle mapping, the transmission's shift strategy and its gearchange times are altered with each switching, and if you order the $1,000 Dynamic Handling package, the stiffness of the shocks changes, too.

We'd strongly recommend this option, not only because it reduces body roll through bends but also because the Comfort setting provides an impressively pillowy ride over broken tarmac. You also get variable-ratio steering with this package, whose weighting is also adjusted by the Driving Dynamics switch, turning meatier in the Sport and Sport+ modes.
The steering gets more weight in Sport and Sport + with the standard servotronic steering as well.
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      07-06-2012, 11:43 AM   #15
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As to the steering, I've read nothing that suggests the VSS uses a faster rack at mid position. Different software is implied, but nothing which even hints at more than the standard ratio mid point and faster to the ends.

Wish BMW would be more specific about these technical details, rather than we find them out as time has passed by.

HighlandPete[/QUOTE]



from e 90 fleet

1) Variable Sport steering has a different ratio cut into the steering shaft for low steering angles compared to high steering angles.

So from 0-90 degrees you get more degrees of wheel turn per steering wheel turn than normal steeing.
Amount of steering wheel turns from lock to lock is reduced 25%.

2) Sport Auto gearbox is the same physical gearbox but with much sportier software and better manual modes. You also get Paddles on the steering wheels an a nicer gearshift.

Its well worth it.
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      07-06-2012, 02:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
As to the steering, I've read nothing that suggests the VSS uses a faster rack at mid position. Different software is implied, but nothing which even hints at more than the standard ratio mid point and faster to the ends.

Wish BMW would be more specific about these technical details, rather than we find them out as time has passed by.

HighlandPete
Quote:
Originally Posted by emtrey View Post

from e 90 fleet

1) Variable Sport steering has a different ratio cut into the steering shaft for low steering angles compared to high steering angles.

So from 0-90 degrees you get more degrees of wheel turn per steering wheel turn than normal steeing.
Amount of steering wheel turns from lock to lock is reduced 25%.
Agree, that is information we can all read from BMW data, brochures, media releases, but still haven't read anything which states the mid position is a faster (or slower) rack than the standard steering rack. Mid position, I assume, is still cut the same as the standard rack, unless BMW state it is definitely a different ratio.

Unless it is cut to a different ratio, it will feel virtually the same for straight ahead precision and response as the standard steering.

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      07-06-2012, 02:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Agree, that is information we can all read from BMW data, brochures, media releases, but still haven't read anything which states the mid position is a faster (or slower) rack than the standard steering rack. Mid position, I assume, is still cut the same as the standard rack, unless BMW state it is definitely a different ratio.

Unless it is cut to a different ratio, it will feel virtually the same for straight ahead precision and response as the standard steering.

HighlandPete
Agree with everything you've said, but I've read in more than one place that the steering is more direct around the straight ahead position - not that that's proof of course. Don't ask me where now, as I've been overdosing on road tests and forums since deciding to place an order. I'll be able to see for myself in a couple of months
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      07-06-2012, 02:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolDude196 View Post
right so sport models get sport suspension and msport models get passive m suspension? both standard im guessing?

cheers!
There is no difference in the Standard Sport suspension and the Standard M-Sport suspension. Sport suspension and M-Passive is the same. BMW doesn't even call it M-Passive as far as I know, the community made up that term based on M-Adaptive.

So, Sport Line and M-Sport Line by default get M-Passive.

Luxury and Modern get the normal softer suspension.

You can now add M-Adaptive to any of the lines now.

M-Passive is very good by itself and as one of the posters said, if you want a firm sporty suspension in Comfort and ECO Pro modes as well, DO NOT GET M-ADAPTIVE.

This is if you are ordering a US spec car, you are based in the UK, check the specifications of each line and it'll tell you. The indicator that you get M-Passive with the M-Sport and the Sport line will be listed as "Sport Suspension" under each of them. If it is not standard for one of the lines, it may not say so. Sport Line in the US is not purely cosmetic, it gives you the sport suspension/m-passive suspension. Elsewhere, like Canada, the lines are purely cosmetic.
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      07-06-2012, 03:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyS View Post
Agree with everything you've said, but I've read in more than one place that the steering is more direct around the straight ahead position - not that that's proof of course. Don't ask me where now, as I've been overdosing on road tests and forums since deciding to place an order. I'll be able to see for myself in a couple of months
I've read that as well, but is it the rack at mid position, or the EPS software, working to different parameters?

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