[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by chrisny

That said, I don't think they've sacrificed performance as much as some say. The steering feel is the only valid complaint I've heard and it's feel, not the performance of the steering that is lacking. Point it where you want and it goes, with very little body roll and plenty of confidence, and at 4.7 seconds or 4.9 or whoever you want to listen to, it's plenty fast for a sedan that doesn't start with an ///M or an "RS"

+1. For most of us, it's the only factor that matters. Someone like me who would never track won't look deeply into the numbers because I would never achieve them. The only thing I would feel and experience just driving from point A to point B is the steering. If a 3-Series doesn't have it, it makes it less attractive to me. Most of us agree that the Audi interior is probably the best out of the German 3 and us current BMW drivers are willing to look past the mediocre interior of the 3-Series for the steering.

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by Tremolo

As far as the vs debate goes... What's the point?

335i vs S4
Brooklyn Decker vs Kate Upton

Now we're talkin!

I understand: with either one, you'd be a happy man!

[Bmwphile]

Originally Posted by RASHID007

To be honest I hear a lot of complaints about how the F30 is the softer 3 series as if it's a bad thing. I'm sure I'm not the only one that prefers the F30 over all previous 3 series. I've tried twice in the last 10 years to buy a 3 series and both times couldn't get myself to do it even though I've always been a huge BMW fan. Why? Because E90 and earlier was too small and cramped and lacking any hint of luxury. The interior was embarrassing. The trade off of performance vs luxury/interior/tech/space was poorly done. This F30 is the first BMW 3 series worth owning if you want a luxury car. Before now a 3 series buyer was buying a wannabe sports car stripped of luxury interior and acceptable space front and back top to bottom.

If you want a sports car get a sports car. If you want the perfect mix of luxury and performance then get an F30. The S4 is great no doubt about that. But if you love and want a BMW the F30 is the first 3 series with buying if you want a LUXURY car too.

The F30 is a nicer, more luxurious, more technology packed and more fuel efficient E39 M5. That's driving heaven if you ask me.

Ok now let the flaming of me begin. . Or perhaps people agreeing that the 3 series trumps all past 3 series by a wide margin and softer is not always bad (and a big pat on the back to Audi for catching up).

As a current (very happy!) F30 owner I agree with you Rashi 100%. I'll even hold the fire extinguisher on you

[1BMW335]

Both great cars and the only thing BMW has to worry about is the fact that it is equal to or less than a car that is a generation older. People who comment on the MMI and other interior tidbits being outdated is because it's a generation behind. The mid-cycle refresh for 2013 should have been compared to the F30 and not the '12. Some interior improvements including flat bottom steering wheel, some new trim items, and also a newer version of MMI with Google earth. The '13 S4 will also have an upgraded exhaust that many Audi fans have complained about and sounds amazing. The exhaust is adjustable through MMI between comfort and dynamic. You can see the new trim, new google earth MMI, and great exhaust sound in this video. Watch in HD!

Audi is doing everything right. Yes it costs a little more, but you are getting more car. Those who are sold on no cost maintenance, nothing is ever for free. You've already paid for it upfront. You can get the same service with Audi by paying $750 for Audicare or if you're actually good at negotiating, they will usually throw it in to sweeten a deal. Be a smart shopper and you can get a well equipped S4 with more options equal to that of a 335. The one thing Audi can't win against the BMW is its lease deals and incentives. There are not many deals on an S4 and leasing it is expensive. BMW makes money through volume sales and can ignore smaller profit margins. Buying a "luxury" or "premium" automobile for $300-400 per month appeals to many and given BMW's brand value, people will simply buy a barebones model to simply say that they drive a BMW.

Can't wait for the B9 S4 to come out in a few years.

[raffyg2388]

I know its just Carlos personal opinion but wtf happenend to bmw. The 3 has lost its soul with the lack of steering feel and losses that department to an audi.This just baffles me. Good job Audi. Feels like those comparisons with e9x were a lot closer than the new f30.

[Robin_NL]

No reason for panicking. It's just the tyres. As already stated by me and many many others.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by Tremolo

As far as the vs debate goes... What's the point?

335i vs S4
Brooklyn Decker vs Kate Upton

Couldn't be said any better!

[Pele96]

Originally Posted by RASHID007

This comparison is flawed. Change the BMW 18" run flats to any decent non-run flat summer tires and it's a tie or the 335i wins every category.

This is true since it was the same guy who did the review for the 335i with staggered set up and automatic trans and said that the 335i is a great car.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by chrisny

Couldn't be said any better!

I'd say, Heidi Klum vs Angela Merkel.

[Pele96]

Here is the video of the first review Carlos did on the 335i. Great review!

[SCBimmerKid]

Originally Posted by DrivenByE30

the king has gotten soft...
it was only a matter of time until its tailgaters come around in front of it...

In this case, the A4 is the most successful one in sticking very close to the 3 series rear end.

I have to applaud Audi for not letting go of the fight, and continuing the improvement...

I prefer BMW losing to Audi than to any other competitors

Couldn't agree more. If it lost to the Merc, I would be much more upset.

[gator15]

Originally Posted by RASHID007

To be honest I hear a lot of complaints about how the F30 is the softer 3 series as if it's a bad thing. I'm sure I'm not the only one that prefers the F30 over all previous 3 series. I've tried twice in the last 10 years to buy a 3 series and both times couldn't get myself to do it even though I've always been a huge BMW fan. Why? Because E90 and earlier was too small and cramped and lacking any hint of luxury. The interior was embarrassing. The trade off of performance vs luxury/interior/tech/space was poorly done. This F30 is the first BMW 3 series worth owning if you want a luxury car. Before now a 3 series buyer was buying a wannabe sports car stripped of luxury interior and acceptable space front and back top to bottom.

If you want a sports car get a sports car. If you want the perfect mix of luxury and performance then get an F30. The S4 is great no doubt about that. But if you love and want a BMW the F30 is the first 3 series with buying if you want a LUXURY car too.

The F30 is a nicer, more luxurious, more technology packed and more fuel efficient E39 M5. That's driving heaven if you ask me.

Ok now let the flaming of me begin. . Or perhaps people agreeing that the 3 series trumps all past 3 series by a wide margin and softer is not always bad (and a big pat on the back to Audi for catching up).

I completely agree with you. i considered buying an E90, but I was always disappointed with the interior. I think that the F30 is a huge step up from the E90. I know that a lot of people complain about the steering, but frankly, I love it. I have a '12 911 Carrera S and honestly, the steering isn't much different than my F30.

Audi definitely makes a great product as well and I think it really comes down to personal preference. Audi has not been coy in its plans to overtake BMW, which isn't a bad thing, as both companies will now be making better cars. I think that you just have to weigh what is important to you and decide from there.

Finally, after having just done ED and PCD, I can honestly say that no car company loves it's customers more than BMW. Porsche/Audi/VW doesn't come close to matching the customer experience that BMW provides. For all those questioning what has happened to BMW, take a look at their sales numbers. They are producing cars that people want to buy. Enthusiasts may not be as pleased with BMW, but the general public appear to be. BMW is in business to make money and by the looks of it, their formula is working pretty well.

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by gator15

BMW is in business to make money and by the looks of it, their formula is working pretty well.

Correct. That's business 101.

As far as BMW going "soft", the hardcore enthusiasts like most of us on these boards have two choices. Either buy M cars, or look to the aftermarket to modify our BMW's the way we feel they should come from the factory.

[dude987]

AWD comparison to RWD doesn't make sense to me. How about the 335i xDrive with Adaptive M Suspension with 18" light alloy wheels and summer tires. The results may be much more interesting.

[doublevanosrc]

Why in the world would a sport pkg equipped 3 have all season tires???

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Yay-Z

I can't believe BMW just lost a comparison on driving feel and excitement. Yikes!!

Yup, they have been losing a lot of comparos as of late. I see it being the trend for a little while. Their current products just aren't the big leaps in development as they use to be.

I listened to an interview the other day with the editor of car and driver. He said a huge amount of resources have been dedicated to the new electric "i" program. Also like other brands BMW have had to take cost cutting measures. For example the new 5series going to an all steel chassis

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by dude987

AWD comparison to RWD doesn't make sense to me. How about the 335i xDrive with Adaptive M Suspension with 18" light alloy wheels and summer tires. The results may be much more interesting.

If you look at it from a platform perspective, but you can't look at it like that. BMW manufactures cars with RWD and that's what they market/thrive at. Audi markets their cars around their FWD/AWD(Quattro) technology. BMW thinks they have the best cars with RWD in the segment while Audi thinks they have the best cars but with Quattro.

That's like all those RS4 and C63 AMG fans complaining about their cars being sedans while the M3 being a coupe. Audi and Mercedes made those sedans to compete with the M3, not the other way around so you can't call unfair comparison.

[CasZy NL]

On looks the bimmer wins from every angle!

Indeed strage BMW didn't give the new 335i a standard 340hp as the old 335is... That would probably nail the S4.

And I suppose this white 335i didn't have the optional M Adaptive Suspension...

[1BMW335]

Originally Posted by CasZy NL

On looks the bimmer wins from every angle!

Indeed strage BMW didn't give the new 335i a standard 340hp as the old 335is... That would probably nail the S4.

And I suppose this white 335i didn't have the optional M Adaptive Suspension...

I love how so many BMW fan boys try to discount anything negative about BMW. Look at inside line's review of the 335is from last year and compare it to their review of the S4. The 335is coupe had similar numbers to the regular 335 and the added hp and tq boost doesn't do much. The S4 still was on par and had slightly better #'s.

[dude987]

The gapping front of on the Audi just doesn't do it for me.

The 335i xDrive outperforms the 335i. With xDrive, M suspension, and summer tires, I'm convinced it will out perform the S4. JMHO.

[raffyg2388]

Imagine if they used the redesiged 2013 s4 which has a few new mechanical improvements going against the new f30. And what happen to the bmw steering feel?! It was one of the main advantages over MB and Audi. This is sad.

[Id8]

Originally Posted by Autobahner

I was on the fence with the S4 and the 335i sport 6MT. I chose the BMW because of the better interior, more comfortable ride for everyday business and the fuel economy. Also, Audi maintenance scares me. I like the piece of mind BMW gives with their maintenance plan. The BMW is several grand cheaper with how I had each optioned out. Also I think the BMW looks far better on the exterior and interior. Sure the S4 was quicker, but the BMW left me with a much bigger smile after driving it. It was all about the power delivery. Audi has done a fine job with the S4 and I am glad they are pushing the competition. This just means that BMW will have to progress their line to be that much better. Close competition breeds better cars in the long run. Either one is a fine choice, but for me, the BMW got the sale.

I'm in Canada and also priced an s4 with similar spec to a 335 I was looking at. It was about 150 more a month with more due on delivery on a longer lease because of the 335 deal I got. Also the Audi costs more with no maintenance plan. Oh personally I think the 335 is way nicer inside than s4