[Frogman]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

They replaced those on mine after I repeatedly said I did not feel that was causing the issue with mine as my noise was clearly coming from a different location. They called and told me the issue has been fixed after replacing the A pillar strips. I asked if they drove it to ensure it was fixed. Yup, all repaired. The minute I drove out of the lot and onto the highway, there it was.......As soon as i hit 80 kph, noise from my B pillar area exactly as it was before. They only give lip service hoping we are stupid enough to think the noise magically has disappeared. Very frustrating when they don't listen.

The other thing I had changed were the entire front door rubber windows guides and seals because of a gap in the upper corner. See:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=150

But I also see that you had previously posted that you don't have that gap.

It almost sounds like the inner (or outer) door seals are not sealing properly.

While investigating my noise issue (I tried a LOT of things), I put some grease on the inner and outer seals in the upper-rear part of the door and then closed the door. Reopening the door will show where and how much the seals contact the frame.

I saw that the contact pattern is a bit odd, wrapping inside, then outside the B-Pillar. I "pushed" the seal out by stuffing some 3/16" wire cable under and behind the door seals to extend the seals out more so there is more contact. That didn't reduce the noise for me at all, but you might try it and see if it helps you. If it does (even slightly), you might try asking the dealer to replace the door seals or just adjusting the doors to be a little tighter and making a better seal.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Frogman

The other thing I had changed were the entire front door rubber windows guides and seals because of a gap in the upper corner. See:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=150

But I also see that you had previously posted that you don't have that gap.

It almost sounds like the inner (or outer) door seals are not sealing properly.

While investigating my noise issue (I tried a LOT of things), I put some grease on the inner and outer seals in the upper-rear part of the door and then closed the door. Reopening the door will show where and how much the seals contact the frame.

I saw that the contact pattern is a bit odd, wrapping inside, then outside the B-Pillar. I "pushed" the seal out by stuffing some 3/16" wire cable under and behind the door seals to extend the seals out more so there is more contact. That didn't reduce the noise for me at all, but you might try it and see if it helps you. If it does (even slightly), you might try asking the dealer to replace the door seals or just adjusting the doors to be a little tighter and making a better seal.

I have been waiting 4 months for them to replace my door seals. Story I was given is they ordered them from Germany and when they finally arrived, they told me they could not install them as they need templates to be able to install them. They were supposed to order them immediately, but I just recently found out they forgot and now I wait again. I'm hopeful but skeptical that they will remedy it. They did adjust my doors and I will say it muffles the traffic noise that was emanating through my doors so clearly, but the wind noise is still bad. The funny thing is the car is so quiet and sealed under 80 kph. As soon as I reach that magic number, it is like a complete different vehicle. Thanks for the suggestions though. I will try the grease out. I'm not really following what you did with the wire though. I have tried wrapping my doors with 1/4" foam backing rod, but no improvement noted. Maybe by the time I sell, the mystery will be solved.

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

I have been waiting 4 months for them to replace my door seals. Story I was given is they ordered them from Germany and when they finally arrived, they told me they could not install them as they need templates to be able to install them. They were supposed to order them immediately, but I just recently found out they forgot and now I wait again. I'm hopeful but skeptical that they will remedy it. They did adjust my doors and I will say it muffles the traffic noise that was emanating through my doors so clearly, but the wind noise is still bad. The funny thing is the car is so quiet and sealed under 80 kph. As soon as I reach that magic number, it is like a complete different vehicle. Thanks for the suggestions though. I will try the grease out. I'm not really following what you did with the wire though. I have tried wrapping my doors with 1/4" foam backing rod, but no improvement noted. Maybe by the time I sell, the mystery will be solved.

This is what I did with the wire...

Here's an image of the top back part of the left-front door unaltered. Note that the seal flattens out around the curve, so I wondered if that was causing the seal to not be made completely when the door was closed.


Then I took some ~3/16" diameter wire (cannibalized from an old USB cable) about 11" long and stuffed it under the seal:




Then (just to go crazy) I also added the same amount of wire above the seal too.



Again, this didn't help my situation, but it may (or may not) confirm that you have leaky door seals up there.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Frogman

This is what I did with the wire...

Here's an image of the top back part of the left-front door unaltered. Note that the seal flattens out around the curve, so I wondered if that was causing the seal to not be made completely when the door was closed.


Then I took some ~3/16" diameter wire (cannibalized from an old USB cable) about 11" long and stuffed it under the seal:




Then (just to go crazy) I also added the same amount of wire above the seal too.



Again, this didn't help my situation, but it may (or may not) confirm that you have leaky door seals up there.

That is the exact spot I am getting the wind noise. I tried something similar but I used foam backer rod instead, but I will try the wire out as well. At this point, I'm willing to give anything a shot. Thanks!

[lightyear36]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

I haven't gone through all 17 pages of this thread.
I have an MY14 335i and find it very quiet, comfortable and smooth in comfort mode.....no wind noise issues here.

At what speed?

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

That is the exact spot I am getting the wind noise. I tried something similar but I used foam backer rod instead, but I will try the wire out as well. At this point, I'm willing to give anything a shot. Thanks!

I found that backer rod is not very resilient and once compressed, it stays compressed.

Here's another idea I tried: Make a tighter seal between the door glass and the the rear vertical glass seal. The theory was that wind could be lifting the seal away from the glass and allowing wind noise to enter the cabin.

Here's the area I'm talking about:


Here's a picture with the window down before doing anything. Note the position of the left edge of the seal.


I used a 3/32" wire (1/2 of an old audio cable) about 17" long.

I inserted the wire between the seal rubber and the B-Pillar cover to force the seal against the glass.




So, with the wire fully installed, it tucks neatly between the cover and the seal pushing the seal towards the cabin making a tighter seal against the glass.

Note the position of the left edge of the seal now. It's much closer to where the glass will be, hopefully making a better seal:




This also didn't help my wind noise, but I did already have those seals replaced too.

You might try this also. If it helps, then you can ask your dealer to either adjust the window glass to fight tighter against the seal at the top, or make them replace the entire window seal.

Good Luck!

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Frogman

I found that backer rod is not very resilient and once compressed, it stays compressed.

Here's another idea I tried: Make a tighter seal between the door glass and the the rear vertical glass seal. The theory was that wind could be lifting the seal away from the glass and allowing wind noise to enter the cabin.

Here's the area I'm talking about:


Here's a picture with the window down before doing anything. Note the position of the left edge of the seal.


I used a 3/32" wire (1/2 of an old audio cable) about 17" long.

I inserted the wire between the seal rubber and the B-Pillar cover to force the seal against the glass.




So, with the wire fully installed, it tucks neatly between the cover and the seal pushing the seal towards the cabin making a tighter seal against the glass.

Note the position of the left edge of the seal now. It's much closer to where the glass will be, hopefully making a better seal:




This also didn't help my wind noise, but I did already have those seals replaced too.

You might try this also. If it helps, then you can ask your dealer to either adjust the window glass to fight tighter against the seal at the top, or make them replace the entire window seal.

Good Luck!

It's really surprising what we've tried that is the same or similar. I did try to seal the outer B-pillar rubber with the same 1/4" backer rod, but tried your suggestion of speaker wire as well this afternoon, but no luck improving the sound isolation doing that either. The only thing I've tried that mutes it is to hold a pair of socks or rag up in the corner. I even considered getting something made that would stick to the window and when up, it would compress into the corner, but I have not investigated that any further. My wife absolutely hates driving in the car as she's always tugging at the window button to try to close it further. Did you say you still have the noise? I don't know what to do at this point other than drive around with a roll of socks taped to my window. Might get some odd looks! Lol

Thanks for the great photos as well. Very good instructions in what you've tried.

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

It's really surprising what we've tried that is the same or similar. I did try to seal the outer B-pillar rubber with the same 1/4" backer rod, but tried your suggestion of speaker wire as well this afternoon, but no luck improving the sound isolation doing that either. The only thing I've tried that mutes it is to hold a pair of socks or rag up in the corner. I even considered getting something made that would stick to the window and when up, it would compress into the corner, but I have not investigated that any further. My wife absolutely hates driving in the car as she's always tugging at the window button to try to close it further. Did you say you still have the noise? I don't know what to do at this point other than drive around with a roll of socks taped to my window. Might get some odd looks! Lol

Thanks for the great photos as well. Very good instructions in what you've tried.

I still have some road noise (I think mostly from the run-flat tires) and I can hear the slipstream at 60+ mph, but after having the drip molding and replaced, my major complaint of the wind buffeting noise is definitely gone.

I still wouldn't classify the car as "quiet", but it's now acceptable to me.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Frogman

I still have some road noise (I think mostly from the run-flat tires) and I can hear the slipstream at 60+ mph, but after having the drip molding and replaced, my major complaint of the wind buffeting noise is definitely gone.

I still wouldn't classify the car as "quiet", but it's now acceptable to me.

When you say drip molding, are you referring to the windshield side strips or the drip molding that runs along the tops of the side windows? I've wondered if these may also be the cause as I don't recall these on my previous BMW's and didn't think they were on many cars anymore.

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

When you say drip molding, are you referring to the windshield side strips or the drip molding that runs along the tops of the side windows? I've wondered if these may also be the cause as I don't recall these on my previous BMW's and didn't think they were on many cars anymore.

The drip molding are the windshield side strips (#2 below):
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...85&hg=51&fg=05



I had previously had the door window guides replaced too: (#1 below):
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...97&hg=51&fg=10

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Frogman

The drip molding are the windshield side strips (#2 below):
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...85&hg=51&fg=05



I had previously had the door window guides replaced too: (#1 below):
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...97&hg=51&fg=10

It appears as though item # 1 runs along the top of the windshield. I have a gap here that I always thought was odd that there is no glass to roof outer seal what so ever. Could I be missing something?

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

It appears as though item # 1 runs along the top of the windshield. I have a gap here that I always thought was odd that there is no glass to roof outer seal what so ever. Could I be missing something?

My car has the indicated seal on the top of the windshield, but it's recessed. It's tucked under the the glass, but does not extend over the front of the roof line.

Here's a picture of the top left corner of my windshield looking straight down on it.



Do you not have that seal? If you are missing that seal, it's probably an issue!

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Frogman

My car has the indicated seal on the top of the windshield, but it's recessed. It's tucked under the the glass, but does not extend over the front of the roof line.

Here's a picture of the top left corner of my windshield looking straight down on it.



Do you not have that seal? If you are missing that seal, it's probably an issue!

I just went out to look at mine and I do have the rubber weatherstrip like shown in your picture, but that must be one of the things they added when they changed out my drip moldings as I know that was not there originally. I always thought it was odd that there was absolutely no seal between the windshield and roofline. Funny that they did not mention that and that I didn't notice it. When I was originally trying to reduce noise, I taped over the complete top edge of the windshield wondering if it was a contributor. I wonder if something else might be missing that I don't see?

[lightyear36]

Alright, I took some time today and taped all windows on all sides and all doors on the left side (had to get in through the passenger's door). Result - no decrease in wind noise at higher speeds (above 60 mph).

Next I did the following:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1377124752

http://www.f30post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1377124752

http://www.f30post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1377124752

http://www.f30post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1377124752

Result: the wind noise on the driver's side decreased almost to the level of being overlaid by tires' noise. And, more importantly, the pattern of the noise changed radically: it became less wooshing. Having decent aerodynamics around the side mirrors might eliminate the issue [almost] completely.

What do we learn from this? It seems to be an aerodynamic design problem of the side mirrors, e.g. once you've eliminated the unnaturally loud wind noise at lower speeds by replacing drip moldings, adjusting doors etc., the noise at higher speeds will still be there on ANY unit.

I wonder if the mirror design on the new M4 will be of any help.

[DarkTrigger]

Wow, lol, nice. Hopefully that tape came off Okay.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by lightyear36

Alright, I took some time today and taped all windows on all sides and all doors on the left side (had to get in through the passenger's door). Result - no decrease in wind noise at higher speeds (above 60 mph).

Next I did the following:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1377124752

http://www.f30post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1377124752

http://www.f30post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1377124752

http://www.f30post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1377124752

Result: the wind noise on the driver's side decreased almost to the level of being overlaid by tires' noise. And, more importantly, the pattern of the noise changed radically: it became less wooshing. Having decent aerodynamics around the side mirrors might eliminate the issue [almost] completely.

What do we learn from this? It seems to be an aerodynamic design problem of the side mirrors, e.g. once you've eliminated the unnaturally loud wind noise at lower speeds by replacing drip moldings, adjusting doors etc., the noise at higher speeds will still be there on ANY unit.

I wonder if the mirror design on the new M4 will be of any help.

Wow is right! Now, where did you notice the wind noise coming from? I read others reporting it to be the mirrors as well, but I have totally dismissed it due to the location the noise was coming from in my car (upper corner near the b-pillar) and the fact that some claim they have no wind noise at all. So, if in fact it is the mirrors, I suspect any visits to the dealerships in an attempt to fix it will be worthless.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by bluemark81

Wow is right! Now, where did you notice the wind noise coming from? I read others reporting it to be the mirrors as well, but I have totally dismissed it due to the location the noise was coming from in my car (upper corner near the b-pillar) and the fact that some claim they have no wind noise at all. So, if in fact it is the mirrors, I suspect any visits to the dealerships in an attempt to fix it will be worthless.

I will also add that it is quite amazing that a bunch of tape wrapped around a mirror that is supposedly engineered to be aerodynamic can actually improve upon the wind noise. Gotta ask........did they even do wind tunnel tests on the car for noise levels?

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by lightyear36

Alright, I took some time today and taped all windows on all sides and all doors on the left side (had to get in through the passenger's door). Result - no decrease in wind noise at higher speeds (above 60 mph).

...

Result: the wind noise on the driver's side decreased almost to the level of being overlaid by tires' noise. And, more importantly, the pattern of the noise changed radically: it became less wooshing. Having decent aerodynamics around the side mirrors might eliminate the issue [almost] completely.

What do we learn from this? It seems to be an aerodynamic design problem of the side mirrors, e.g. once you've eliminated the unnaturally loud wind noise at lower speeds by replacing drip moldings, adjusting doors etc., the noise at higher speeds will still be there on ANY unit.

I wonder if the mirror design on the new M4 will be of any help.

I did something similar, I stuffed a big hunk of foam between the mirror and the door and secured it with electrical (vinyl) tape. I didn't notice any significant difference noise during my freeway-speed tests.

Also, has anyone else noticed the weird lip at the bottom of the side mirrors? Why would they put a flat surface facing the slipstream on the mirrors like that?

I also tried adding a 1/4" foam wedge at the bottom of the mirror to eliminate this lip and making it more aerodynamic, but as usual, it didn't help either.

[Anaskh]

Good morning guys,

Just to keep you in the loop, today I sent a reminder to Customer Relation Manager and Sales Manager to update me about the wind noise problem solution. The answer was from the Sales Manager that there is a solution which includes some rubbers changes and new design for side mirror caps and they are waiting for the kit to arrive to use it on the demo car first. Thanks God at least there is a hope.
I will keep you updated once I get results.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Frogman

I did something similar, I stuffed a big hunk of foam between the mirror and the door and secured it with electrical (vinyl) tape. I didn't notice any significant difference noise during my freeway-speed tests.

Also, has anyone else noticed the weird lip at the bottom of the side mirrors? Why would they put a flat surface facing the slipstream on the mirrors like that?

I also tried adding a 1/4" foam wedge at the bottom of the mirror to eliminate this lip and making it more aerodynamic, but as usual, it didn't help either.

Haha, I know exactly what lip you are referring to as I mentioned how odd it was to my dealer. Almost as though the coloured housing is too small for the black coloured portion. Back when everyone, including my dealer, was blaming the wind noise on the mirror design, I taped over this lip in an attempt to "smooth out" the air flow, but it made no difference. I do agree that it seems extremely weird though.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Anaskh

Good morning guys,

Just to keep you in the loop, today I sent a reminder to Customer Relation Manager and Sales Manager to update me about the wind noise problem solution. The answer was from the Sales Manager that there is a solution which includes some rubbers changes and new design for side mirror caps and they are waiting for the kit to arrive to use it on the demo car first. Thanks God at least there is a hope.
I will keep you updated once I get results.

So this is supposed to be a retrofit kit available to all f30 owners? If this is coming from Germany, why is your dealer trying it on a demo first? I assume Germany would have tested it out on test vehicles first before shipping it to dealers. I will be calling my dealer today to inquire.

[bluemark81]

Originally Posted by Anaskh

Good morning guys,

Just to keep you in the loop, today I sent a reminder to Customer Relation Manager and Sales Manager to update me about the wind noise problem solution. The answer was from the Sales Manager that there is a solution which includes some rubbers changes and new design for side mirror caps and they are waiting for the kit to arrive to use it on the demo car first. Thanks God at least there is a hope.
I will keep you updated once I get results.

Wouldn't they just make a new housing that would be installed like this?

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=708155