[Mako]

So this last weekend I was contacting a few Audi dealerships in the Chicago area because I thought I had decided on the S4 (the way I would build them it was the identical price of a 335 xdrive) but I like the interior of the 2013 facelift S4, really nice with the nappa leather and flat bottom S line wheel. On Sunday a fellow BPost member informed me of how much I could get off on a new 335 with a little work and the drive USA incentive on top of that. Well compared to the best offer I figured Audi would give me (like 4.5-5% off MSRP) that would save me $2,000! Now would I give up my dream car or just the car I REALLY wanted for $2,000, NO, but I viewed these cars pretty much as equals, but gave the Audi the slight edge. But for $2,000 and a better maintenance program I changed my mind and will go with the BMW as long as I can get that awesome deal!

Anyway an Audi dealership e-mailed me back when I told them the price I could get on the BMW 335 and their response was "What you may gain with the BMW up front you will more than get back with the Audi S4 when you trade it in" One of the other reasons the 335 kept tapping me on the shoulder during my decision making process was that BMWs always have top resale value, now I don't think the S4 will be far behind but I doubt it will be better than the 335i with the same options. I know BMWs have killer resale because my father bought his M3 the same time I bought my C63, the MSRP on my car was $5K higher than his (although I paid a little less), I have 5,000 more miles than him but the M3 was appraised at $4,000 HIGHER than the C63! When buying used cars, people want

just thought I would share that with you guys and anyone with Audi experience, please chime in.

[chrisny]

I think mine is a bad example because I didn't keep it long enough, but my S5 did not hold its value the way I thought it should. They were (maybe still are) a somewhat limited production car, and I got more from Mercedes on a trade than Audi was willing to give me, and I lost a little on a car I should have at the very least broke even on. 65k including tax and after about 14 months and 16k miles, I had to fight for $48,500 on a trade in. This was an '09. When I first ordered it, people were getting MSRP for used '08's and dealers were adding 5k to the sticker, if they actually had any in inventory (usually only because someone cancelled an order). By the time my 8 month wait was up, the economy was in the toilet and they weren't quite as scarce, but still far less available than most cars.

I put too many miles on it and didn't keep it long enough, but I'm still pissed it didn't hold better value, and that was why I downgraded to a C300 instead of stepping more sideways to an S4. No way I was handing Audi 4 grand to take my S5 away, then another 4 to start the S4 lease.

[chrisny]

I think mine is a bad example because I didn't keep it long enough, but my S5 did not hold its value the way I thought it should. They were (maybe still are) a somewhat limited production car, and I got more from Mercedes on a trade than Audi was willing to give me, and I lost a little on a car I should have at the very least broke even on. 65k including tax and after about 14 months and 16k miles, I had to fight for $48,500 on a trade in. This was an '09. When I first ordered it, people were getting MSRP for used '08's and dealers were adding 5k to the sticker, if they actually had any in new inventory (usually only because someone cancelled an order). By the time my 8 month wait was up, the economy was in the toilet and they weren't quite as scarce, but still far less available than most cars.

I put too many miles on it and didn't keep it long enough, but I'm still pissed it didn't hold better value, and that was why I downgraded to a C300 instead of stepping more sideways to an S4. No way I was handing Audi 4 grand to take my S5 away, then another 4 to start the S4 lease.

[Casey 5]

The Audi S4 and S5--especially the vert. hold their re-sale very well. Much like the R8 and any RS.

This is because there are so few "S" cars on the road. The S4 is certainly more rare than a 335i.

For this reason they do not depreciate like any of the "A" models. Supply vs Demand.

Instead of looking at the $2,000--let your test drive of both the 2013 S4 vs the 335i be your deciding factor.

When you are talking just $2k between cars that both exceed $50K....your decision should be based solely on your experience behind the wheel.

[Mako]

Also let me add that a few different sales people over the years at Audi that we have talked to always seem to think that Audi is the top selling luxury brand, why is that? Seriously the guy I talked to last week was telling me how Audi is the #1 selling premium brand and his dealership is rocking on the weekends (was empty on a Tuesday when I went) and the BMW down the street never has many people in it (which I knew was false because my family has been going there for years and its always packed).

Do they have training seminars where they brainwash their sales people with lies? Audi is no where near Mercedes or BMW for top spot, don't even think they are hitting Lexus numbers yet. They are nice cars but I hate being lied to.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by Casey 5

The Audi S4 and S5--especially the vert. hold their re-sale very well. Much like the R8 and any RS.

This is because there are so few "S" cars on the road. The S4 is certainly more rare than a 335i.

For this reason they do not depreciate like any of the "A" models. Supply vs Demand.

Instead of looking at the $2,000--let your test drive of both the 2013 S4 vs the 335i be your deciding factor.

When you are talking just $2k between cars that both exceed $50K....your decision should be based solely on your experience behind the wheel.

thats just it, compared to my C63 they are the same! I know most people here say the 335 drives sportier than the S4 but I am looking at the AWD 335. I have driven both cars (335i not AWD...) and both obviously lack the that the C63 puts on my face. This is a car to get me through about 3-4 years until the kids are at least in boosters and the new M3 is out and in production for a couple years.

[chrisny]

C63, M3, RS4/5 > S4/5, 335... No secret there.

[SCBimmerKid]

Usually I think of Mercedes as a bit stuffy and boring, but the lunacy that the c63 brings to the table is really a smile factory (Sorry, just had to say it)

Anyway, I also love Audis but they definitely don't hold their resale value as long. My local Audi dealer is the "Number 1 Audi Dealership" in the nation, and they also tried to tell/sell me that they are better than BMW in resale. Horsesh*t

[tony20009]

If you, as I do, buy and keep your cars for a good while (I tend to keep cars for 10+ years so long as they are in good mechanical and visual shape), resale value is largely irrelevant as none of them will be worth anything worth jumping up and down over come the time you get rid of it.

[jtuds]

Originally Posted by Mako

Also let me add that a few different sales people over the years at Audi that we have talked to always seem to think that Audi is the top selling luxury brand, why is that? Seriously the guy I talked to last week was telling me how Audi is the #1 selling premium brand and his dealership is rocking on the weekends (was empty on a Tuesday when I went) and the BMW down the street never has many people in it (which I knew was false because my family has been going there for years and its always packed).

Do they have training seminars where they brainwash their sales people with lies? Audi is no where near Mercedes or BMW for top spot, don't even think they are hitting Lexus numbers yet. They are nice cars but I hate being lied to.

In Canada Lexus is the top selling luxury brand, for new car sales anyway...

[KneeDragr]

IMO BMW and Audi both have awful resale.

My friend paid 40k for his 335i and 4 years later could barely got 20k for it. Meanwhile I paid 23k for my CR-V and 4 years later got 18k for it. The only time I outdid that was my Toyota pickup. I bought it for 21.5k and sold it 3 years later for 18.5k.

Nothing can touch Japanese cars for resale. On the other hand, they are soul-less, deliver gutless acceleration, and a floaty yet jarring ride.

[darksilkx1]

Originally Posted by Mako

Also let me add that a few different sales people over the years at Audi that we have talked to always seem to think that Audi is the top selling luxury brand, why is that? Seriously the guy I talked to last week was telling me how Audi is the #1 selling premium brand and his dealership is rocking on the weekends (was empty on a Tuesday when I went) and the BMW down the street never has many people in it (which I knew was false because my family has been going there for years and its always packed).

Do they have training seminars where they brainwash their sales people with lies? Audi is no where near Mercedes or BMW for top spot, don't even think they are hitting Lexus numbers yet. They are nice cars but I hate being lied to.

I agree with that comment on the training seminars. Couple years ago my wife was looking at the X5 and Q7. I asked Audi dealer how BMW was able to offer a similar or arguably better product at the same price and still roll in four years free maintenance. Audi guy said BMW rolled the cost into the cost of the car. So I said oh ok what you are telling me is that BMW can make a similar/better product for less than you guys? And still make a profit so much so that they can also offer free maintenance? Dude wasn't making sense.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Mako

Also let me add that a few different sales people over the years at Audi that we have talked to always seem to think that Audi is the top selling luxury brand, why is that? Seriously the guy I talked to last week was telling me how Audi is the #1 selling premium brand and his dealership is rocking on the weekends (was empty on a Tuesday when I went) and the BMW down the street never has many people in it (which I knew was false because my family has been going there for years and its always packed).

Do they have training seminars where they brainwash their sales people with lies? Audi is no where near Mercedes or BMW for top spot, don't even think they are hitting Lexus numbers yet. They are nice cars but I hate being lied to.

The S4 is more of a niche vehicle when it comes to Audi's, and it does hold it's resale value better than an A4.
But, it also requires a certain type of driver/buyer.
Yet, when you look at the leases, residuals don't reflect a much better benefit for the S4.

When I was shopping I noticed that at certain times the S4 will have very good lease rates.
About 3 months ago, a nearly equally optioned S4 compared to a 335i RWD, had the S4 at about the same monthly payment. Audi had a $1000 conquest cash and that helped.
But, that went away fairly quickly. Comparing a lease now with an equally optioned 335i Msport RWD, the S4 was substantially higher in monthly payment.

As one poster said, at this price point you should get the car that you really want and that speaks to your needs.

Also, in my experience a RWD 335i is the drivers equivalent to the AWD S4.
The driving dynamics of a RWD 335i are much closer to the S4, compared to an Xdrive 335i.
Quattro makes an Audi perform at a higher level all around not just in snow.
Xdrive changes the 3's balance negatively.
If you're concerned about winter driving, then take the money you'd spend for an Xdrive and apply it towards a winter tire wheel/tire set, which will likely cost less than the cost of Xdrive, and you'll retain all the driving goodness of a RWD BMW 3 series that you will use much more often throughout the year.

AWD BMW's are more appropriate for areas that are hilly and where snow sits on the ground more often during the winter.
Those are conditions that really don't exist in the Chicago area, or the greater surrounding area.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Mako

Also let me add that a few different sales people over the years at Audi that we have talked to always seem to think that Audi is the top selling luxury brand, why is that? Seriously the guy I talked to last week was telling me how Audi is the #1 selling premium brand and his dealership is rocking on the weekends (was empty on a Tuesday when I went) and the BMW down the street never has many people in it (which I knew was false because my family has been going there for years and its always packed).

Do they have training seminars where they brainwash their sales people with lies? Audi is no where near Mercedes or BMW for top spot, don't even think they are hitting Lexus numbers yet. They are nice cars but I hate being lied to.

It's odd that they think if they're #1 in sales, then as a customer you should then choose them.
I don't buy my cars based on who is selling the most cars.
I buy what I like.

Audi does have a valid point though when they claim to be the best selling brand. But it also matters in which market they claim this to be true.

Here is some info for 2011. 2012 is not over, so all we can get is year to date or monthly sales.
It is amazing that in this economy premium/luxury brands are actually increasing sales.

From autospies.com
Audi on Monday unveiled sales growth of 19.2 percent for last year, outpacing 12.8 percent for the BMW brand and 8.0 percent at Daimler's luxury brand.

The VW unit sold 1.30 million cars in the year, compared with 1.38 million BMWs and 1.26 million at Mercedes-Benz.

Audi wants to dethrone BMW as the world's number one premium car maker by 2015 through powering ahead in China and the United States, the world's biggest luxury car market.


There were earlier in 2011 suggestions that BMW would outsell Audi and MB, and they did as you can see. But, its' really close.
Also, Audi is showing bigger gains over all. BMW is increasing NA sales, but sales have leveled off in the Euro market.
19.2% increase in sales for Audi, 12.8% for BMW.

For 2012 I'm going with BMW out pacing Audi mostly with the excellent F30 sales. The A4/S4 and A3 are old models now. This year a new A3 sedan is coming. I think it'll be here this year. But, it'll probably sell very well.
The A4 has only been "freshened up", but nothing major for buyers.
BMW on the other hand, has done very well with the 1 series, but it too is now tired. The new 2 series coupe should really help US/NA BMW sales, and the new Euro 1 series hatch was released this past year as well.

This rivalry is great for those of us who like German automobiles.
I'm really looking forward to the A3 sedan, and hopefully BMW's response with a 1/2 series based sedan as well, at least for the US/NA market.

[Mako]

Right, competition is good for everyone! I am also hoping that the Mercedes CLA and Audi A3 sedan make BMW come out with a nice smaller sedan, maybe a 2 series gran coupe!

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by Mako

Also let me add that a few different sales people over the years at Audi that we have talked to always seem to think that Audi is the top selling luxury brand, why is that? Seriously the guy I talked to last week was telling me how Audi is the #1 selling premium brand and his dealership is rocking on the weekends (was empty on a Tuesday when I went) and the BMW down the street never has many people in it (which I knew was false because my family has been going there for years and its always packed).

Do they have training seminars where they brainwash their sales people with lies? Audi is no where near Mercedes or BMW for top spot, don't even think they are hitting Lexus numbers yet. They are nice cars but I hate being lied to.

My local Audi dealer is a joke. Small, never have anything in stock. And when I test drove a 2012 s4 they wouldnt even budge on the msrp. I walked. And Im still in my favorite car, BMW.

Audi is nice especially the s4, but those dealers are delusional...And the BMW online community is way better. SO MUCH more info out there on the Beemers.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Mako

Right, competition is good for everyone! I am also hoping that the Mercedes CLA and Audi A3 sedan make BMW come out with a nice smaller sedan, maybe a 2 series gran coupe!

I hope BMW come to their senses one day and figure out that a car with four doors is a sedan and nobody, absolutely nobody, thinks it's a coupe, regardless of how curvy it is, or what they call it.

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by KneeDragr

IMO BMW and Audi both have awful resale.

My friend paid 40k for his 335i and 4 years later could barely got 20k for it. Meanwhile I paid 23k for my CR-V and 4 years later got 18k for it. The only time I outdid that was my Toyota pickup. I bought it for 21.5k and sold it 3 years later for 18.5k.

Nothing can touch Japanese cars for resale. On the other hand, they are soul-less, deliver gutless acceleration, and a floaty yet jarring ride.

+1 - Amazing a 10 yr old honda accord will still fetch 6500-7500$ used

Originally Posted by Mako

Also let me add that a few different sales people over the years at Audi that we have talked to always seem to think that Audi is the top selling luxury brand, why is that? Seriously the guy I talked to last week was telling me how Audi is the #1 selling premium brand and his dealership is rocking on the weekends (was empty on a Tuesday when I went) and the BMW down the street never has many people in it (which I knew was false because my family has been going there for years and its always packed).

Do they have training seminars where they brainwash their sales people with lies? Audi is no where near Mercedes or BMW for top spot, don't even think they are hitting Lexus numbers yet. They are nice cars but I hate being lied to.

that is def garbage - i would say lexus/bmw/mb runaway sales leaders, then infiniti, then audi (acura doesn't even count)

Originally Posted by Casey 5

The Audi S4 and S5--especially the vert. hold their re-sale very well. Much like the R8 and any RS.

This is because there are so few "S" cars on the road. The S4 is certainly more rare than a 335i.

look up kbb - audi a5 has the best 5 yr residual among all luxury cars. i don't know if they have specific data on S models, but it can only be better.

[infinitigor]

My cousin just sold his s4 for 5k over buyout 2 years into his lease. They hold their value

[HoustonEaDo]

Originally Posted by Mako

Do they have training seminars where they brainwash their sales people with lies? Audi is no where near Mercedes or BMW for top spot, don't even think they are hitting Lexus numbers yet. They are nice cars but I hate being lied to.

For 2011, BMW was #1 and Audi was #2....don't forget they sell outside of the US

http://expertscolumn.com/content/bmw...ury-cars-world

[HoustonEaDo]

Audi is #9 on this list -- BMW isn't in the top 10

http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-...award-winners/

[korben dallas]

Originally Posted by infinitigor

My cousin just sold his s4 for 5k over buyout 2 years into his lease. They hold their value

+1

B8 S4s hold their value better than an e90 335i, by a long shot. Who knows how the f30s will shake out, but if we're talking e90 its not even close (rightly or wrongly).