[SkyJawa]

Its just not worth it while in warranty anymore. I want to remap our 230 Tiguan as it goes to 300bhp+ but its only just a year old, no chance I will do it while still within the 3 years.

[RENT-A-GOAT]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

I coded in the M splash screen. I was bored of the connected drive one. I've coded door handle lights on reverse. Tyre temperature. B&O sound from HK.

Would I get done even if I reversed to default settings?

It seems a bit childish of BMW. I get they want to prevent people messing up cars but switching things on and off doesn't sound like a big deal. I guess it's trying to avoid warranty claims and getting people to pay to play such as apple car play. They want to charge for options and keep models within their segments.

It's not the switching on/off it's the messy way in which it is done that potentially causes hardware issues apparently seems they are just clamping down as speedski says these things are no doubt part of the new business model. How much would you pay p/a for your changes?

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by speedski

makes sense if you think about it - they're moving to an all options fitted pay for what you want to use business model - therefore they need to make this watertight.

Obviously checking the date stamps to determine the restore of the previous versions.

I can understand that.. but once this happens if you buy a second hand vehicle out of warranty hopefully you’ll be able to code everything to switched on and have all the extra sexy features your car doesn’t already have

[RENT-A-GOAT]

Originally Posted by Hooded

I can understand that.. but once this happens if you buy a second hand vehicle out of warranty hopefully you'll be able to code everything to switched on and have all the extra sexy features your car doesn't already have

You are ok and just face not being covered if you get a warranty and BMW scan your car and find things they don't like.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

I coded in the M splash screen. I was bored of the connected drive one. I've coded door handle lights on reverse. Tyre temperature. B&O sound from HK.

Would I get done even if I reversed to default settings?

It seems a bit childish of BMW. I get they want to prevent people messing up cars but switching things on and off doesn't sound like a big deal. I guess it's trying to avoid warranty claims and getting people to pay to play such as apple car play. They want to charge for options and keep models within their segments.

The problems come when people who don't know what they're doing go and screw up systems, stop other software from working as intended

I entirely understand BMWs view on this. You want to reprogram your phone, car, PC, with home-modified code, don't go whining to the manufacturer when or if it goes wrong.

Of course, if you buy a JLR and reprogram it so it works properly, they'd probably download your new software to their servers and flash it to everyone's cars so that things didn't go wrong

[Sullym6]

Originally Posted by robbiep

The problems come when people who don't know what they're doing go and screw up systems, stop other software from working as intended

I entirely understand BMWs view on this. You want to reprogram your phone, car, PC, with home-modified code, don't go whining to the manufacturer when or if it goes wrong.

Of course, if you buy a JLR and reprogram it so it works properly, they'd probably download your new software to their servers and flash it to everyone's cars so that things didn't go wrong

I get that but the person we are talking about here changed the startup logo and seat belt reminder so hardly a reason for bmw to turn down warranty on all electrics. What if his headlight fails or window motor.
There will be a legal challenge at some point as they will have to prove that a coding change caused the part to fail.
It might be different with 3rd party apps like bimmercode as you don't know what exact coding changes are made

[BBri89]

It's all getting a bit ridiculous.

If it directly affects things, maybe understandable.

e.g. an early clutch failure on a remapped car, or leaking shocks after 10k with lowering springs fitted.

But a blanket warranty void policy is going to upset a lot of people and leave them open to the courts deciding rather than BMW deciding.

Like has been suggested, coding in an M Performance startup logo, or Tyre Temps, or beeps on lock/unlock don't damage physical parts, so refusing to replace under warranty is not really acceptable.

Tailgate struts don't care whether the door handle lights come on in reverse, transfer case on an xDrive isn't affected if your door mirrors now fold in when you lock the car.

A lot of these that people code should be either on by default, or adjustable through idrive as standard.

[r1cey]

I just don’t understand why a lot of people treat £30k - £50k cars like they are phones (or similar) and modify, whether that be “simple” coding, as most of this thread is about, or all those out there, increasing power with remaps or “add-ons”. The risk is just not worth it, and bearing in mind that any x40 is relatively high powered in the first place, madness!! Thankfully, my stock car got fixed under warranty (https://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewto...?f=74&t=129378) but how many people stupidly think “it’ll not happen to me”, or just don’t realise the full implications of what they are doing?? (the latter more likely). Some don’t realise the full cost of an engine swap, if it does go “bang”, and not covered!!

[RENT-A-GOAT]

Originally Posted by r1cey

I just don’t understand why a lot of people treat £30k - £50k cars like they are phones (or similar) and modify, whether that be “simple” coding, as most of this thread is about, or all those out there, increasing power with remaps or “add-ons”. The risk is just not worth it, and bearing in mind that any x40 is relatively high powered in the first place, madness!! Thankfully, my stock car got fixed under warranty (https://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewto...4&t=129378) but how many people stupidly think “it’ll not happen to me”, or just don’t realise the full implications of what they are doing?? (the latter more likely). Some don’t realise the full cost of an engine swap, if it does go “bang”, and not covered!!

In that case what about those people who buy a AUC that like many on here have "modded" during their lease period then handed back with all mods "removed" only for the new owner to then have an issue and find they are in the same boat as this has been happening recently too according to the service manager. They go in oblivious after having a fault pop up, car is scanned & they are told that there's irregular coding and bang no warranty.

Wouldn't be surprised if hand over checks are going to be a lot more rigorous catching many out with this now in place and unbeknown AUC owners faced with this start raising hell.

[r1cey]

I’m sure, like any operating system/software, when anything was installed/modified leaves a digital trail, and if a AUC buyer was sold a modified car unaware, then they would have comeback. As you say, if AUC, then they really should be checking for such as part of their “supposedly” 101 checks, or whatever (but as likely, they do the absolute minimum, to get it back on the forecourt and maximise return).

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Sullym6

I get that but the person we are talking about here changed the startup logo and seat belt reminder so hardly a reason for bmw to turn down warranty on all electrics. What if his headlight fails or window motor.
There will be a legal challenge at some point as they will have to prove that a coding change caused the part to fail.
It might be different with 3rd party apps like bimmercode as you don't know what exact coding changes are made

So where DO they draw the line then ?

BMW have decided : This is the approved software that we install, we warrant works properly. Fuck with it, and you're on your own.
Unless you are a software expert, you're basically just following instructions - from someone who may, or may not, have a clue about the 'Law of Unintended Consequences'.

Let's say, for example, that there's a bit of BMW's code that looks for a state that is 240 characters later on, to decide whether to engage the emergency braking. You, by adding your code, move that point so it is now 245 characters later on.

I've seen, on here, people that have 'bricked' their cars by doing something wrong. By messing with the 'wrong' bit of code.

Also, as to your 'court case' situation, remember that the software (and future official versions of the software) are part of the 'type approval' for the car. All BMW have to do is get VOSA involved, and you're potentially left with a pile of parts that VOSA declare can never be put back on the road

[bishbosh]

Originally Posted by robbiep

So where DO they draw the line then ?

BMW have decided : This is the approved software that we install, we warrant works properly. Fuck with it, and you're on your own.
Unless you are a software expert, you're basically just following instructions - from someone who may, or may not, have a clue about the 'Law of Unintended Consequences'.

Let's say, for example, that there's a bit of BMW's code that looks for a state that is 240 characters later on, to decide whether to engage the emergency braking. You, by adding your code, move that point so it is now 245 characters later on.

I've seen, on here, people that have 'bricked' their cars by doing something wrong. By messing with the 'wrong' bit of code.

Also, as to your 'court case' situation, remember that the software (and future official versions of the software) are part of the 'type approval' for the car. All BMW have to do is get VOSA involved, and you're potentially left with a pile of parts that VOSA declare can never be put back on the road

A bit extreme IMO, FDL coding is not flashing firmware, but changing settings that the firmware already understands. You can't brick your car this way. If updating firmware itself then yes there is a risk unless you take precautions (knowing what you're doing, using a charger, etc).

Getting Vosa involved? BMW would just say what's been alluded to in this thread and refuse to warrant the car. Does type approval even cover the software? I don't know. Remaps aren't illegal.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Also, as to your 'court case' situation, remember that the software (and future official versions of the software) are part of the 'type approval' for the car. All BMW have to do is get VOSA involved, and you're potentially left with a pile of parts that VOSA declare can never be put back on the road

Since remaps etc Aren’t illegal in the UK, I think that’s a little far fetched don’t you

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by bishbosh

A bit extreme IMO, FDL coding is not flashing firmware, but changing settings that the firmware already understands. You can't brick your car this way. If updating firmware itself then yes there is a risk unless you take precautions (knowing what you're doing, using a charger, etc).

Getting Vosa involved? BMW would just say what's been alluded to in this thread and refuse to warrant the car. Does type approval even cover the software? I don't know. Remaps aren't illegal.

Yes, software is part of type approval. I used to work in a company designing medical devices, and our software was all part of the approval process.

Yes, it MIGHT be all a bit far fetched. But if you had a failure, and decided to take it all the way to the courts, BMW have a range of very nice 'outs' available to them, and you'd have virtually none.

[M140_BCS]

Absolute minefield for someone looking to buy a used car and take out the BMW extended warranty.

Pay £50+ a month to find out you have zero warranty when needing to claim.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Hooded

Since remaps etc Aren’t illegal in the UK, I think that’s a little far fetched don’t you

Well, under the 'Construction and Use' regulations - which are part of the type approval process - it is illegal to modify a vehicle in any way which changes it's emissions, unless such modification has been approved by VCA.

So, at the really technical level of the law, remaps are illegal

[M33DLO]

Bang goes my ideas of installing 6WB in the near future then, while it's under warranty at least..
I'd be proper annoyed if the car is black listed due to an aftermarket 6WB swap and associated coding.
And as a result, I'm not going to risk it and thankyou RENT-A-GOAT for posting this up.

I fully understand their standpoint though, but I also agree that it's a touch extreme to void ALL electrical warranties if you coded wing mirrors to fold on locking.

[speedski]

I think BMW could play this smart. If they tighten up on the on demand features functionality then its likely to start with the plug in way of the dealer and then go to the OTA way in future, therefore the theory that AUC or used could lead to a hackathon to enable everything is unlikely. BMW are going to monetize that car for life. Why wouldn't they.

Now, if they made the software capable of turning on the majority of 'nice to haves' that people are adding via bimmer code etc via the idrive then the need for those changes goes away.

As for remaps, can't blame them there either. Expect that to be something they start selling on demand too...

All about the money...

[Kermit]

Originally Posted by M140_BCS

Absolute minefield for someone looking to buy a used car and take out the BMW extended warranty.

Pay £50+ a month to find out you have zero warranty when needing to claim.

Potentially, but the numbers of 'modified' cars out there will likely be far fewer than being portrayed here I'd suggest. It's probably only this community and others like it that might be tempted to dabble. The vast majority of owners will be completely oblivious to the scope for 'personalisation' and hence the risk of picking up a tweaked one is low (albeit not zero).

[muniz_ri]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

I coded in the M splash screen. I was bored of the connected drive one. I've coded door handle lights on reverse. Tyre temperature. B&O sound from HK.

Would I get done even if I reversed to default settings?
.

That part still seems unclear, speculation aside, and won't be confirmed until someone goes in for warranty work after undoing the coding.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Well, under the 'Construction and Use' regulations - which are part of the type approval process - it is illegal to modify a vehicle in any way which changes it's emissions, unless such modification has been approved by VCA.

So, at the really technical level of the law, remaps are illegal

I would like to see that Argued in court.

I stand by my original reply that VOSA declaring you can’t put your car back on the road due to a remap etc is far fetched.

[M140_BCS]

Originally Posted by Kermit

Potentially, but the numbers of 'modified' cars out there will likely be far fewer than being portrayed here I'd suggest. It's probably only this community and others like it that might be tempted to dabble. The vast majority of owners will be completely oblivious to the scope for 'personalisation' and hence the risk of picking up a tweaked one is low (albeit not zero).

I'd expect a fair few 340i, 440i and M cars to have had remaps or coding done as it is so quick and easy to do while sat on your drive - BM3, MHD and XHP for example.