[DeltaFX1942]

Thought this might be interesting to the group: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...0i-test-review

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by DeltaFX1942

Thought this might be interesting to the group: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...0i-test-review

Screw Car & Driver!

Nah, I honestly get what they are doing. They use influence to change the manufacturer's behavior.

Do also think the LCI worked to correct a few wrongs, but some things are just part of the changing of the automobile.

We all are adjusting to electronic steering. Sure it can be better, but it's not the worst in the world.

No stopping the upmarket shifts throughout the industry. The haves are the target, while the have nots get left behind. However, regular cars are now much better then they've ever been also.

[shivaswrath]

$58k is just way to much for a 335i/340i!

The track handling package is a great way to sucker buyers...

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

$58k is just way to much for a 335i/340i!

The track handling package is a great way to sucker buyers...

Whenever I see this argument, I think:

1) People tend to think of simpler times when the 3-series was at the lowest rung of the BMW ladder and have a notion it should still be $40k. Well the 3-series has grown up (nearly as big as the E39 5-series), it's a lot more car than it used to be, and there's a 2-series for those who want smaller/cheaper. Oh, and $58k in 2016 is equivalent to $41k in 2000.

2) MSRP is largely meaningless, considering how most of these are leased for ~500-700/month.

[x986]

NightWriter, are you trying to confuse people with the facts? That can't be done.

[hollandog]

The steering is not the best but not as bad as they made it sound.
I'm fine with it set to Sport.

[AudiA4]

They've pretty much nailed it. A fine automobile that is not the scalpel it used to be. Here's hoping the 2019 platform returns to its dynamic handling roots while maintaining the luxury, technology and sublimity of the F30.

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

Whenever I see this argument, I think:

1) People tend to think of simpler times when the 3-series was at the lowest rung of the BMW ladder and have a notion it should still be $40k. Well the 3-series has grown up (nearly as big as the E39 5-series), it's a lot more car than it used to be, and there's a 2-series for those who want smaller/cheaper. Oh, and $58k in 2016 is equivalent to $41k in 2000.

2) MSRP is largely meaningless, considering how most of these are leased for ~500-700/month.

Agree, the inflation-adjusted price hasn't changed all that much. What has changed is sooo many more options available now that weren't before. And more significantly, other cars at lower price points have gotten really, really good. When I bought my E36 and later my E46 there really wasn't much that was very attractive at lower price points. Now there's a ton of good stuff.

[goj]

Fwiw when I autocrossed my car in time trials. I beat the ATS 3.6 w/ exhaust by 5 seconds. Maybe it was both man and machine differences but my car, stock on run flats ate his lunch.

My notes:
I feel like the writing quality has gone down over the last few years. There is just as much positive in the review if not more but they over emphasize the negative instead of presenting their feedback equally.

The are melodramatic about the steering lol it's not perfect but it's still good. I agree with the few degrees on center thing feeling distant but aside from that it's ok.

The numbers the car put down are fantastic, objectively speaking.

There's almost no congruency between the first drive review and this. No wonder BMW didn't invite them to the canyon driving event in Mexico. R&T and every other journal there seemed to have great things to say about driving many of the variants. Maybe C&D has been getting shafted from BMWs cool events of late? Butthurt? Haha who knows.

I like the rev match.

My conclusion: It's fast, handles very well, you can get a manual. Could me more driver involving. Also, I love my car!

[goj]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

They've pretty much nailed it. A fine automobile that is not the scalpel it used to be. Here's hoping the 2019 platform returns to its dynamic handling roots while maintaining the luxury, technology and sublimity of the F30.

Honestly the car handles very well. Body roll was fixed, .91g on the skid pad is great. Handling is a non issue objectively speaking.

Don't count on the steering to change much though, that's a marketing decision.

[paul e]

I'm new to the BMW 340i. I realize this is an (extreme) enthusiast oriented forum, but still - some of the criticisms of the car seem ultra picky.

As above, I am LOVING my new car, xDrive and all. Try and get a manual tranny in a similar car, but before you do that, find a nice firm wall to slam your head into.

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by hollandog

The steering is not the best but not as bad as they made it sound.
I'm fine with it set to Sport.

About F30 steering...
I have no problem with it, in sport mode.
The last F30 I sampled was a 335i with MSport package with square all season tires.
Let me tell you the steering was a gem on that car.
The wheel was quick. I rate it about an 8. Weight, in sport mode, was a 9. Not too firm,
Not too light. Not too much variance at speed. Feel, was about a 5 or 6 though. I like strong return to center force and recent BMWs just don't offer that. Accuracy was a solid 9.5, though. EVERY movement of the wheel resulted in a corresponding change in the cars direction. The Msport wheel earned extra credit in my heart by virtue of its thick, expertly textured leather wrapped wheel rim. That unit felt really good in my hands.

I also note that the best thing about E90 steering, to me, was its effort and effort build up. A perfect 10 in that regard. But it was by no means vice free. The same tingles, vibes, pulls, nuance, and texture that made the E90 feel so alive on curvy back roads also had a tendency to reduce REFINEMENT around town.

With this latest MSport F30, I generally enjoyed its steering more than both E90, E60, and X1 steering in town. In sport mode that is. Now on a spirited cruise on a curvy back road, I immediately missed the more tactile steering of the older cars. Still though, the car was a blast.

That being said, the steering is NOT my concern with the F30s. Its the ride/handling mix that most catches my criticism. Wtf? Base suspension is an absolute mess. Any Accord, Altima, Mazda6, or decent mainstream sedan will travel down the road with more finesse and composure. The F30 bounces, wallows, springs and steps rather heavily down the road. I don't mind a stiff ride. Not at all. But a firm ride should come with EXCELLENT body control.
In the Base suspension, it does not. The MSport was better. I found the ride taut, firm and no more harsh than the base suspension (square all seasons?). Still it took no more than a couple of miles to determine that there was STILL a bit of float and wallow here. I will say, that handling is perfectly fine with all of the F30s. Dive and squat are well controlled. Grip is better than average. Only a bit of body roll in corners and lack of damping over rough roads diminish corner carving ability.
I have yet to sample the adaptive suspension system. If it is as much an improvement over the sport suspension, as the sport is over the base suspension, I think I may be pleased.

I welcome any changes the 340 that BMW makes to address the ride quality. BMW suspensions haven't felt "expensive" to me in along time. E90, no. E60, no. F-series 3 and 5s. No. They all handle fantastically, but fail to process road imperfections in a way befitting cars being sold at these prices. I think runflats have been the worst thing to happen to BMW design in a long time. They introduced a list of ever growing compromises. Compromise is more easily accepted at econocar prices, but at BMWs lofty prices, you expect to compromise less and enjoy more. Even the new adaptive suspensions are a compromise, no matter how good it is. Why not magnetic shocks, with their superior damping range and response instead? I want to see BMW back on top. I understand them trying to appeal to the masses. But, in regards to ride/handling, the technology exists to have your cake and eat it too. A pity. This, from a company who for years, was thought to have elves, magicians, and ultra intelligent alternate life forms, finely calibrating each chassis as it rolled off the assembly line... #thankGODfortheaftermarket

[radm]

For me they lost some credibility when they complained about rev matching? Why? If you do it yourself and do it well the computed doesn't interfere. So what is their problem?

How can I trust their opinion about other stuff then? ;-)

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by goj

Honestly the car handles very well. Body roll was fixed, .91g on the skid pad is great.

Isn't skidpad really just a measure of tire width, all else being equal? C&D got 0.98g with the new Camaro SS, which is quite a bit heavier than the 340i and has similarly sticky tires (Goodyear F1s vs. MPSS). But its tires are much wider.

[dalto]

Am I the only one who wishes they would spend more time comparing the car to it's current competition and less time comparing it to their ideal of what a 3-series should be?

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by dalto

Am I the only one who wishes they would spend more time comparing the car to it's current competition and less time comparing it to their ideal of what a 3-series should be?

I hear you, but the 3-series has always had a worse interior than Merc/Audi, but it made up for it with superior driving engagement. BMW apparently no longer values driving engagement, and their interiors lag worse than ever. Just because Merc/Audi also suck in this department is no reason to give BMW a pass for abandoning the formula that put them on the map.

I just wish the ATS didn't drop the ball in a few critical areas (powertrains, rear seat room, gauge cluster), or it might have lit a fire under BMW's ass to make a proper drivers' car again. By all accounts, the ATS drives like an E46.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

Whenever I see this argument, I think:

1) People tend to think of simpler times when the 3-series was at the lowest rung of the BMW ladder and have a notion it should still be $40k. Well the 3-series has grown up (nearly as big as the E39 5-series), it's a lot more car than it used to be, and there's a 2-series for those who want smaller/cheaper. Oh, and $58k in 2016 is equivalent to $41k in 2000.

2) MSRP is largely meaningless, considering how most of these are leased for ~500-700/month.

My 335i in 2012 was $47k (premium, tech, HUD, etc), and with the M performance suspension, brakes, and LSD is still cheaper than the 340i with track package...I do agree one can't compare it to the E-3-series, completely night and day.

It's what you make of it, I just feel like if you're entertaining a 340i at that price point, might as well get a stripper M3.

[goj]

Originally Posted by the_phew

Isn't skidpad really just a measure of tire width, all else being equal? C&D got 0.98g with the new Camaro SS, which is quite a bit heavier than the 340i and has similarly sticky tires (Goodyear F1s vs. MPSS). But its tires are much wider.

Suspension, F/R weight distribution (balance), center of gravity are all major variables. So no it's not just width and type of tire. Although they are variables

[bimmernole]

I'm very excited to be receiving my 340i next week. It will be the first BMW that I personally own. No matter what any car magazine writes, I know I will enjoy the car. I consider myself a enthusiast in that I enjoy talking about cars, I know some info about them and I've always been fascinated with sports or sportier type cars. That being said, I am not a race car driver. I am not even a weekend track person. I won't notice a damn thing that is "wrong" with the steering or anything else for that matter because the car will be great to me and most people. Sometimes these magazines act like everyone is Mario Andretti.

[goj]

Originally Posted by the_phew

I hear you, but the 3-series has always had a worse interior than Merc/Audi, but it made up for it with superior driving engagement. BMW apparently no longer values driving engagement, and their interiors lag worse than ever. Just because Merc/Audi also suck in this department is no reason to give BMW a pass for abandoning the formula that put them on the map.

I just wish the ATS didn't drop the ball in a few critical areas (powertrains, rear seat room, gauge cluster), or it might have lit a fire under BMW's ass to make a proper drivers' car again. By all accounts, the ATS drives like an E46.

No true. The F30 is arguably nicer than the B8.5 Audi interior and up until 2015 it was way nicer than the c-class. Not to mention the infotainment is arguably the best in the BMW.

Each brand seems to one up the others in a couple categories when the all new model is released.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by goj

Suspension, F/R weight distribution (balance), center of gravity are all major variables. So no it's not just width and type of tire. Although they are variables

The Golf R must be an amazing piece of engineering, since Motor Trend got 0.96g despite it being nose-and-top-heavy, and the tires are only 225mm wide I think.

0.91g really isn't impressive for the 340i, considering that's closer to C&D's measurement of the Accord on touring all-seasons (0.87g) than most sporty cars that are closer to 1.0g.

[goj]

Originally Posted by the_phew

The Golf R must be an amazing piece of engineering, since Motor Trend got 0.96g despite it being nose-and-top-heavy, and the tires are only 225mm wide I think.

0.91g really isn't impressive for the 340i, considering that's closer to C&D's measurement of the Accord on touring all-seasons (0.87g) than most sporty cars that are closer to 1.0g.

Yes computer electronics have helped a lot especially in AWD cars.

Ok, so you say .91g isn't good? The 328 got .92g so I'm guessing it's roughly the same, just different test conditions leading to natural variations.

C&D claimed m235i grip is "tenacious" at .92g
Find that here: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-tested-review

.91g is pretty darn good, I rest my case.