[Chunner]

IMO.......

Today, I was driving around in a 2014 BMW 428i X-Drive because my daily beast is in the shop for scheduled maintenance and upgrades. I was really looking forward to the experience. However.....

Let me tell you something boys. I am totally wowed that BMW had the ability to produce a car that was not a BMW. It did not drive like a BMW or feel like a BMW. What ever happened to the ultimate driving experience? The 428i felt so bloated and disconnected with the road, I was truly taken back. It honestly felt like a Buick from 1985. Even in sport+ mode and in manual, I had a hard time feeling the road. The electronic steering rack is horrible. Truly a blah and boring experience. I honestly thought a $51,000 USD car should have more driver communication. I am so disappointed.

What does everybody else think of the 428i? I am curious.

[DecemberStorm]

I think many will point out that comments about "how F3x have lost the BMW-ness" are just beating on a dead horse, but I will try to chime in.

I currently own a 328xi Sportline with DHP. When I was shopping I test drove a luxury line 328 with no DHP, and on that I agree that it's like a boat and steering is too artificially light. Switching between the modes help somewhat with the steering weight (newer software apparently does this very well) and mainly throttle response and transmission mapping, which are about the best in class. I've never heard anyone bitch about the N20 and the ZF 8A unless you count the "this sounds like a diesel/ poor exhaust tone" and "A BMW must have an I6" crowd

Fast track to my car, which has the sport auto, adjustable dampers, and variable steering, the whole experience is simply much better. Ride is more composed and buttoned down in sport, while in comfort mode the car handles shitty roads in Ontario much better too. The 19 inch wheel and low profile performance tires kinda eat into the ride quality improvements but it's still noticeable. Variable steering is neat, low speed turning is only 1 turn to lock, and overall steering weight is increased, but you don't feel the difference between comfort and sport as much. So overall the experience is still mostly there, but now you gotta pay extra for it.

What a lot of people don't get is that BMW is trying to reach out to a broader customer base and make more sales. Yes cars like your 135i probably is a raw machine that handles like a dream. What we describe as "connected" and "responsive" are viewed by the average joe as "harsh" and "uncomfortable". BMW is battling Lexus and Mercedes for sales crown in North America, and Lexus didn't hog that position for so long by building bonkers sports cars. I think the "land yacht" 6 series is a perfect example of new BMW strategy: sharp styling, quality interior, comfortable ride, killer powertrain, and good handling if you want to pay for it.

I find the 4 series to be a very attractive car with great road presence, and apparently the default setup in the F32 is firmer than the F30. Design advantages like a wider track and lower centre of gravity help too. But I do wish that BMW could give it a more bespoke interior or at least improved quality and materials (more metal/wood, leather surfaces, etc...) to further set it apart. Although that's more wishful thinking as Audi is doing same thing with A5 and A4 and sales are just fine for both companies.

[Mojave Spirit]

Originally Posted by DecemberStorm

I think many will point out that comments about "how F3x have lost the BMW-ness" are just beating on a dead horse, but I will try to chime in.

I currently own a 328xi Sportline with DHP. When I was shopping I test drove a luxury line 328 with no DHP, and on that I agree that it's like a boat and steering is too artificially light. Switching between the modes help somewhat with the steering weight (newer software apparently does this very well) and mainly throttle response and transmission mapping, which are about the best in class. I've never heard anyone bitch about the N20 and the ZF 8A unless you count the "this sounds like a diesel/ poor exhaust tone" and "A BMW must have an I6" crowd

Fast track to my car, which has the sport auto, adjustable dampers, and variable steering, the whole experience is simply much better. Ride is more composed and buttoned down in sport, while in comfort mode the car handles shitty roads in Ontario much better too. The 19 inch wheel and low profile performance tires kinda eat into the ride quality improvements but it's still noticeable. Variable steering is neat, low speed turning is only 1 turn to lock, and overall steering weight is increased, but you don't feel the difference between comfort and sport as much. So overall the experience is still mostly there, but now you gotta pay extra for it.

What a lot of people don't get is that BMW is trying to reach out to a broader customer base and make more sales. Yes cars like your 135i probably is a raw machine that handles like a dream. What we describe as "connected" and "responsive" are viewed by the average joe as "harsh" and "uncomfortable". BMW is battling Lexus and Mercedes for sales crown in North America, and Lexus didn't hog that position for so long by building bonkers sports cars. I think the "land yacht" 6 series is a perfect example of new BMW strategy: sharp styling, quality interior, comfortable ride, killer powertrain, and good handling if you want to pay for it.

I find the 4 series to be a very attractive car with great road presence, and apparently the default setup in the F32 is firmer than the F30. Design advantages like a wider track and lower centre of gravity help too. But I do wish that BMW could give it a more bespoke interior or at least improved quality and materials (more metal/wood, leather surfaces, etc...) to further set it apart. Although that's more wishful thinking as Audi is doing same thing with A5 and A4 and sales are just fine for both companies.

I wish I had the DHP.. I must say the ZF 8A is the best auto transmission I have ever driven. ZF really knows how to make a gearbox. You put the car into sport and it definitely gives you that BMW feeling. Granted the steering isn't as heavy as the older ones, but its close

[WilliCO]

Yes, correct - a 428 xDrive without DHP will provide a driving experience that does not meet the expectations of typical long term BMW enthusiasts. That package is for Lexus drivers who previously thought BMWs were too high strung.

So don't buy one of those if you are a long term BMW enthusiast.

BMW, except in a few cases, builds the xDrive cars without sport suspensions no matter what options you choose. On xDrive BMWs, DHP is critical equipment to tighten up the driving experience. Even then, though, in the case of the F10 5 series I do not think they went far enough with damping on the DHP Sport mode.

Even better, select a rear wheel drive BMW with the 704 M suspension. A 428 equipped that way will still feel somewhat softer than, say, an E46 ZHP, but probably much closer to what you're after. And, for what it may be worth, I don't think there was an xDrive E46 ZHP anyhow.

Sadly, BMW penalizes those of us who value xDrive. They give us squishy suspensions and raised ride heights, then make us pay thousands of dollars for DHP to bring it back to par. Neither Audi, Cadillac, Lexus, nor Mercedes do that. It's the one thing that really bugs me about BMW's packaging approach.

But, for 95% of us, a RWD BMW with a set of snow tires is just as good, or better.

[cgpublic]

I can't blame BMW for the switch to electronic steering, simply because their hand is forced to meet governmental regulation. I have read that others have advanced their electronic steering with greater success than BMW. In regard to DHP, my experience is limited test drives. That said, while it does indeed alter the steering feel, it does not match the tire > wheel > driver feedback found in my both of my BMW E90s.

I would be curious to read what others have to say on both notes, other manufacturers and DHP.

That said, I'm not paying a excessive premium for car that has eliminated the primary purchase driver. It's a very simple proposition in my mind: the F30 is an inferior car as related to size, drive and materials in comparison the outgoing E90, at a substantially higher price.

[DecemberStorm]

In terms of chasis and handling, the consensus winner around the block is the new IS350 RWD F-Sport. A close second is the Cadillac ATS. Isn't it funny that Lexus and Cadillac of all manufacturers are going sportier while BMW is going softer...

I personally really liked the IS and almost made a purchase, but there are a few areas that really killed it for me. The main problem lies in the powertrain and the packaging.

The 2GR-FSE in the IS is as buttery smooth as you can expect a Toyota engine to be, but the N20 feels just as punchy in everyday driving while nailing significantly higher mileage. I also don't get why Lexus didn't put the Aisin 8 speed auto in the AWD model, especially since the LS AWD has the exact same transmission and likely the same AWD gears. Another slap in the face for AWD owners are the lack of Variable Gear Ratio Steering (the equivalent of VSS I think)

I already alluded to packaging issue when talking about AWD, but seriously, why is Lexus omitting options on F-Sport models? I think it's probably due to a more expensive yen when they were doing product planning, but I think at this point most are ready to shell out equal money on a Lexus and BMW, so forcibly keeping MSRP down wasn't the best idea IMO.

I believe when the next generation of Lexus engines come out (the already announced 2.0t and the forthcoming V6 twin turbo) and when Lexus stop being so stubborn with pricing and let people choose, it will have a very commanding position in the industry.

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by DecemberStorm

In terms of chasis and handling, the consensus winner around the block is the new IS350 RWD F-Sport. A close second is the Cadillac ATS. Isn't it funny that Lexus and Cadillac of all manufacturers are going sportier while BMW is going softer...

I personally really liked the IS and almost made a purchase, but there are a few areas that really killed it for me. The main problem lies in the powertrain and the packaging.

The 2GR-FSE in the IS is as buttery smooth as you can expect a Toyota engine to be, but the N20 feels just as punchy in everyday driving while nailing significantly higher mileage. I also don't get why Lexus didn't put the Aisin 8 speed auto in the AWD model, especially since the LS AWD has the exact same transmission and likely the same AWD gears. Another slap in the face for AWD owners are the lack of Variable Gear Ratio Steering (the equivalent of VSS I think)

I already alluded to packaging issue when talking about AWD, but seriously, why is Lexus omitting options on F-Sport models? I think it's probably due to a more expensive yen when they were doing product planning, but I think at this point most are ready to shell out equal money on a Lexus and BMW, so forcibly keeping MSRP down wasn't the best idea IMO.

I believe when the next generation of Lexus engines come out (the already announced 2.0t and the forthcoming V6 twin turbo) and when Lexus stop being so stubborn with pricing and let people choose, it will have a very commanding position in the industry.

I completely agree with you about the Lexus powertrain packaging; they are one step away from being seriously interesting there.

I do believe that since you were considering an IS, they have begun to use the 8 speed transmission in the AWD model.

[nicknaz]

So let me get this straight OP, you think a base model AWD 4 series is not sporty, compared to your modified 1 series with engine and suspension mods.

thanks for that news flash! I would never have figured that out!

There are so many variables that have changed from car to car, especially the wheel and tire setup and the suspension settings. try out a base 128 with 205 wide all season tires back to back with your current car and report back.

[Chunner]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

So let me get this straight OP, you think a base model AWD 4 series is not sporty, compared to your modified 1 series with engine and suspension mods.

nicnaz, you are wrong. The original post was about my experience and my conclusion. No where was there a comparison. Read the post. I also did not write that the 2014 BMW 428i X-Drive was not sporty. Again, read the post. These are some of the words I used to describe my experience driving the 2014 BMW 428i X-Drive: bloated, disconnected, blah, boring and disappointed.

In addition, you assumed I had a "base model AWD 4 series", that too... can not be farther from the truth. For your pleasure, I took a picture of the window sticker. $50,975 USD is not a base model.

nicnaz, please do not assume. You know what they say about people who "assume". Thanks and cheers...

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Chunner

IMO.......
It honestly felt like a Buick from 1985.

And this ridiculous hyperbole totally undermines whatever modicum if credibility you might have had.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

So let me get this straight OP, you think a base model AWD 4 series is not sporty, compared to your modified 1 series with engine and suspension mods.

thanks for that news flash! I would never have figured that out!

There are so many variables that have changed from car to car, especially the wheel and tire setup and the suspension settings. try out a base 128 with 205 wide all season tires back to back with your current car and report back.

He goes on to call his 1er a beast,

Dodge challenger hellcat, 707hp, 65k MSRP.
Camaro ZL1

Call those beasts (and they are all stock btw) and we are on the same page, not a 1er

http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...?__federated=1

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by Chunner

For your pleasure, I took a picture of the window sticker. $50,975 USD is not a base model.

It is an xDrive 428 without DHP though, which I believe mainly explains your driving experience.

[Chunner]

Originally Posted by WillInDenver

It is an xDrive 428 without DHP though, which I believe mainly explains your driving experience.

Will, you make sense. Perhaps.... I hope to drive one with DHP then. Thanks for your previous post. Cheers!

[tuned2ride]

It did not drive like a BMW or feel like a BMW

I had 2 328d in the last 2 months and they drove like VOLVO.

Not a BMW.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by tuned2ride

I had 2 328d in the last 2 months and they drove like VOLVO.

Not a BMW.

I drove a 328d Sport line over and over again at the UDE and it was a blast!

[falar]

MSRP aside, that is a base model. It literally has ZERO options that improve performance (and has the dreaded base xDrive suspension to boot).

[FC4]

Cool story. You're talking about the least performance-oriented configuration possible on a 4-Series. Of course it feels like shit. Even a RWD 435i M Sport is nothing impressive.

How's your entry-level 1-series beast, though? Is it out of hibernation in the shop ready to terrorize the streets yet? It must be such a savage monster...you have balls bigger than Dan Bilzerian's to drive such an animal.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by FC4

Cool story. You're talking about the least performance-oriented configuration possible on a 4-Series. Of course it feels like shit. Even a RWD 435i M Sport is nothing impressive.

How's your entry-level 1-series beast, though? Is it out of hibernation in the shop ready to terrorize the streets yet? It must be such a savage monster...you have balls bigger than Dan Bilzerian's to drive such an animal.

My toddler is even asking why I am laughing so hard. You made my day man

[tuned2ride]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I drove a 328d Sport line over and over again at the UDE and it was a blast!

Are you a city bus driver?

[turbo4]

Nonsense. I have 2013 328 drive luxury and love it. Are you going to take your car to the track every weekend or are you looking for a good very day driving and having fun with the car? If you are taking the car to the track than yes get a sport model. But believe me, mine is not a boat. I have rf.'s 18 inch and its great driving in the city. Power is great and I always have fun and cannot wait to get into the car the drive. Don't bash the car because it does not fit your personal preference. Get whatever is good for your style of driving. Don't expect BMW to call you and ask what do you want. If you like E90 stay with it, don't sell. Many, many people on this forum love the car. I would not personally buy Lexus IS, its a different experience for me.

You have to decide what you need from the car and don't ask other people. That is my advice.
At the end it si going to be your car and you will be driving it.

[Chunner]

Originally Posted by FC4

Cool story. You're talking about the least performance-oriented configuration possible on a 4-Series. Of course it feels like shit. Even a RWD 435i M Sport is nothing impressive.

How's your entry-level 1-series beast, though? Is it out of hibernation in the shop ready to terrorize the streets yet? It must be such a savage monster...you have balls bigger than Dan Bilzerian's to drive such an animal.

You are right, I can only talk about what I have in my garage right now. A $52K 2013 428i Xdrive and I would agree with you that it feels, you use the word "shit". I will use the words "loose & somewhat disconnected". You also write: "Even a RWD 435i M Sport is nothing impressive." Well, I can not comment because I dont have one or ever driven one but if you say so, I believe you because you own one. I think.

As for my "1-er", you can write what you wish but my little 135is, right out of the box, is still 1 out of 586 examples. That's lighter, faster, has more Hp, has more Tq and more nimble then your 435i but as it sits now ... well come to New York, I'll give you the key, you go beat on it and fall in love.

Don't believe me? Read for yourself...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...aven-bmw-135is

http://www.cnet.com/products/2013-bmw-135is/

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2013/08/08...the-bmw-135is/

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

But lets not get off topic. This thread is not about a 1er. If you want to chat about 1er's , then go to the that forum. I'm the OP and this is about "MY" 2014 BMW 428i X-Drive Experience.

PS: I do not know who Dan Bilzerian is.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Chunner

You are right, I can only talk about what I have in my garage right now. A $52K 2013 428i Xdrive and I would agree with you that it feels, you use the word "shit". I will use the words "loose & somewhat disconnected". You also write: "Even a RWD 435i M Sport is nothing impressive." Well, I can not comment because I dont have one or ever driven one but if you say so, I believe you because you own one. I think.

As for my "1-er", you can write what you wish but my little 135is, right out of the box, is still 1 out of 586 examples. That's lighter, faster, has more Hp, has more Tq and more nimble then your 435i but as it sits now ... well come to New York, I'll give you the key, you go beat on it and fall in love.

Don't believe me? Read for yourself...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...aven-bmw-135is

http://www.cnet.com/products/2013-bmw-135is/

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2013/08/08...the-bmw-135is/

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

But lets not get off topic. This thread is not about a 1er. If you want to chat about 1er's , then go to the that forum. I'm the OP and this is about "MY" 2014 BMW 428i X-Drive Experience.

PS: I do not know who Dan Bilzerian is.

The problem is the 135is is no beast out of the box. The F30 335i with 300hp is already good for 4.6 to 60 and 13.3 in the quarter. Same as the 1er.

We have a couple of guys here with the mperformance kit which is good for 335hp and 337lb/ft of tq. So the 1er is like a little pussy cat and you have to excuse some of us for lol'ing at this "beast" reference.

As for the 586 or whatever number you have to understand that the 1er was never meant to sell a lot of units and it doesn't and it didn't. It appeals to a very small market segment and I would say I would be very impressed if they sold all 586 units.