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      02-08-2016, 10:40 AM   #89
rolltidef32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firaxis
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Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
I know what you're trying to say, but you're on a slippery slope.

Very difficult to argue what someone needs. To a New Yorker in Manhattan, South Shore Boston, or Inner Loop Chicago, they could argue that you don't need a car at all. However, someone in LA, or even Birmingham may say it is a necessity; this is perspective.

Same goes for value. This is what you're hinging your argument on, but all transactions are not a value proposition. Some transactions can simply be a want. Some wants can masquerade as needs, based on perspective; that word again...

To someone with fund liquidity, a Ford, whatever, may not even exist to them. To someone who just works hard, got a good education, has a nice job; that BMW could be more than a want. It could also be more than a symbol to a car enthusiast. To them, the BMW is an opportunity. That opportunity is to do whatever the hell they want.

Also, the cliché "you can't take it with you" is kinda silly. Taking it with you following death; who cares? This is about living to the fullest in the time we have here.

Why haven't I run out and bought that 911 GT3? Good question, but likely so I'll get to still live nicely once I'm gone through my son.
How am I on a "slippery slope"? You have no idea about my fiscal outlay.

I'll give you this one, you can't say what someone "needs". But I can gurantee nobody actually "requires" a luxury sedan, they are a waste of money no matter how you swing it.

If they have amassed a large sum of "liquid funds", then they don't need to worry about fuel.
If you've amassed a high level of liquid funds, you worry about everything. Outlays can compound.

Gas prices affect shipping and material transport costs. Paying higher for gas means they can charge more for gas. Buy at the cheaper station and all prices come down.

No one is questioning your wealth. I assume you must do quite well. None of the guys here seem to be in dire financial condition; at least I hope that's not the case.
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      02-08-2016, 11:45 AM   #90
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      02-08-2016, 01:04 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
Respectfully, That's just not the case.

What I wrote was thanking the president for setting the energy policy that he did. Think of the decision on the Keystone Pipeline. Reason why it wasn't implemented is the current energy situation; cheap gas.

Oil is currently trading around $29 per barrel, down from $98 per barrel in June 2014. These conditions were created from a number of converging situations; fracking, shale, Gulf oil, OPEC policy, emission policy, economic downturn in China, strategy to neutralize Russian global economic impact, etc.

Sorry guys, but much of the above were political decisions. If that pipeline were allowed to be made, it would have been an absolute economic disaster that would be a failed investment with a large environmental threat capacity to boot. The president and his energy and economic advisors foresaw these conditions and made the wise decision. They also helped to create some of the conditions, many of which were carried over from the last president.

Those of us who monitor the economy and investing closely knew this also, but we also know that these conditions will not last beyond the next 4-5 years. Even still, the time to divest of Oil and Gas was 2014, which is exactly when I did dump most of my stock in these commodities; stock which I'd held since April 1999. Still own a little, but not much anymore. There are newer emerging energy markets that look more promising for the next 10-15 years. Now is the time to research and possibly invest in these areas.
You can thank the president for setting the energy policy if you like but that is not the same as claiming that the president guided the energy policy that led directly to cheaper gas. The claim should not have been made on this thread in the first place as it was an off topic political point of view that you personally hold and not some "universal truth" that we all should acknowledge as fact without calling you out.

Fracking, shale, OPEC policy, China slowing down, Europe economic downturn, are all out of the President's control and are the major driving influence with the current price of gas. No pun intended.

Tougher CAFE standards non withstanding, there is little control the President has over gas prices today.

True the Iran agreement is a factor the President has influenced (along with European leaders) to drive down the price of gas, as Iranian oil deliveries are set to resume shipment to Europe but this is not an energy policy of the President.

The lack of a keystone pipeline does not reduce the price of gas.

It also must be stated that:

"It’s true that given the opportunity, Obama did not dismiss the notion outright that higher gasoline prices might be a good idea to create incentives for people to switch to alternative energy sources." - http://www.factcheck.org/2012/03/oba...soline-prices/
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      02-08-2016, 01:51 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32
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Originally Posted by Blubaron79
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Originally Posted by rolltidef32
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Originally Posted by RPM1123
I don't look at the gas prices, I fill my car up when it needs to be filled. I'm not rich by any means, but you need to pay to play.
Hate to tell you, but statements like that show you're not rich. Rich people go out of their way to not waste money.

No shame in finding the cheapest station in your area; that's smart money.
Actually no.. Smart money is the opportunity cost of not driving an extra 10 miles for cheap gas; on top of wasting time that could be used more efficiently doing other tasks. Econ 101
True, but what if it's not 10 miles and only a half mile? The opportunity cost is relative to the extra investment to obtain.

This can go in a loop forever when we control for environmental differences.

Smart money in my example was not knowingly wasting money when alternatives may exist, unless what obtained has a high personal utility.

Some say luxury cars are not necessary, but nether is buying clothes from anywhere other than Wal-Mart, but that doesn't tell the entire story. What is the value of perceived quality?

Why is a Rolex better than a Timex? At some point, returns diminish, but that's relative to the buyer.
Very true. We are about to get into a never ending argument. Nordstrom clothes v Walmart clothes. BMW v Ford. I already want to shoot myself.
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      02-08-2016, 02:22 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
If you've amassed a high level of liquid funds, you worry about everything. Outlays can compound.

Gas prices affect shipping and material transport costs. Paying higher for gas means they can charge more for gas. Buy at the cheaper station and all prices come down.

No one is questioning your wealth. I assume you must do quite well. None of the guys here seem to be in dire financial condition; at least I hope that's not the case.
It's very "situational", it depends how expensive said BMW's are. Some are quite cheap, I got a 335D and at current exchange it cost $51K with all the additionals and upgrades.

Again the price difference between a 320D and a 335D would probably cover me fuel wise for the next 20 years. So based upon that, if fuel was an issue I'd of been daft to buy it in first place. Do you get the logic there?

If your outlays are compounding and fuel is a concern, again you've bought the wrong car. It should never be an issue...

Not that I'd throw away money, if I find somewhere cheaper I'll go there but I won't actively search for it. Of course I'd always prefer things to be cheaper irrelevant of whether or not it has a bearing on me.

Last edited by Firaxis; 02-08-2016 at 02:37 PM..
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      02-08-2016, 02:36 PM   #94
rolltidef32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM1123
I don't look at the gas prices, I fill my car up when it needs to be filled. I'm not rich by any means, but you need to pay to play.
Hate to tell you, but statements like that show you're not rich. Rich people go out of their way to not waste money.

No shame in finding the cheapest station in your area; that's smart money.
Actually no.. Smart money is the opportunity cost of not driving an extra 10 miles for cheap gas; on top of wasting time that could be used more efficiently doing other tasks. Econ 101
True, but what if it's not 10 miles and only a half mile? The opportunity cost is relative to the extra investment to obtain.

This can go in a loop forever when we control for environmental differences.

Smart money in my example was not knowingly wasting money when alternatives may exist, unless what obtained has a high personal utility.

Some say luxury cars are not necessary, but nether is buying clothes from anywhere other than Wal-Mart, but that doesn't tell the entire story. What is the value of perceived quality?

Why is a Rolex better than a Timex? At some point, returns diminish, but that's relative to the buyer.
Very true. We are about to get into a never ending argument. Nordstrom clothes v Walmart clothes. BMW v Ford. I already want to shoot myself.
Don't shoot yourself man! Who else is going to keep us straight on the forum?

Let's just end the debate here. Points were all made with some validity from all sides.

See Gator is back and on his political shtick and I certainly don't want to get back into that crap.
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