[LMK5]

Originally Posted by Al Bundy's Dodge

I hear ya, my larger point was that you can sell at any time and if you want a new car after a year or two, it's easier to make a change when compared to being "locked" into a 3 year lease. In other words, more flexibility/options.

I also thought we were comparing leasing new vs. buying CPO, but I've lost track of where the argument has gone. I would never argue buy new is better than leasing new.

I see what you're saying. I guess the question is: Is it more difficult to sell a car you own or is it harder to get someone to take over your lease? I think a lessee also has the option to sell the car mid-lease, but then you'd have to come up with the difference in the payoff balance so the lessor becomes whole.

As for the CPO, I have to admit the deals I've seen posted online by my dealer, Crevier BMW, look pretty good. For instance, when I returned my MY2014 328i in 2017, they were selling 2014 cars optioned just like mine for $22,999 asking price (the MSRP was $45,500). The residual on my car was $27,500. What is the warranty on these 3-year old lease returns? There would be one more year of manufacturer's warranty left, but do they add any warranty to a 3-year old car?

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by LMK5

I see what you're saying. I guess the question is: Is it more difficult to sell a car you own or is it harder to get someone to take over your lease? I think a lessee also has the option to sell the car mid-lease, but then you'd have to come up with the difference in the payoff balance so the lessor becomes whole.

As for the CPO, I have to admit the deals I've seen posted online by my dealer, Crevier BMW, look pretty good. For instance, when I returned my MY2014 328i in 2017, they were selling 2014 cars optioned just like mine for $22,999 asking price (the MSRP was $45,500). The residual on my car was $27,500. What is the warranty on these 3-year old lease returns? There would be one more year of manufacturer's warranty left, but do they add any warranty to a 3-year old car?

The cpo warranty will add an additional year of power train coverage after the factory warranty expires. This additional year is only power train though, not electronics etc, so coverage is limited. Of course you have the option of purchasing additional coverage in terms of duration and what's covered, but it'll cost you.

[JimBean2014]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Congrats!!

Now post up a pic or two!!!

Yes, I just have not had a chance .. I'll take some this weekend

[otay]

Jeez, this thread went sideways, eh?

OP, I've been shopping and I think it's a pretty good deal. As said before, if you can get the payment down to less than 1% of MSRP, you're doing well. It appears you've done this, and with nothing out of pocket.

So...did you do it?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

That's why I prefaced it with " MY opinion" and "if you like modding cars"

Epic repair and maintenance bills??? Are BMW's that poorly built??? Antiquated after 6-7 years??? I mean I know we'll all be flying around in personal drones soon, but I wouldn't call a 2014 3 or 4 series an antique.....

Btw, you could finance $30,000 with zero down at 3% interest rate and still be under $540 a month for 60 months own it at the end of 5 years or spend $40,000 renting a car every 3 years for the next six years with nothing to show for at the end besides a residual or start another lease....


Yeah, prolly won't make much sense to someone who likes driving around in stock cars with mileage limits and endless car payments and just wants a new car every three years.

But, if you like modding cars, and not worry about mileage and actually own the car at the end of the day maybe instead of endless lease payments, then buying a cpo that has already took the biggest depreciation hit makes perfect sense.


Not everyone has the same ideas about how they like things or how they spend their money...so your random opinion about leasing is just that a random opinion like mine, no need to get testy about it ....

A used car will always be cheaper than a new car, leased or financed. I'm not sure why this is a good argument for the lease vs finance debate. You know what a leader walks away with at the end of 6 years? The experience of having 2 brand new cars with warranties. Not to mention these cars will be better speced than the used 335i you got for $30k.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Al Bundy's Dodge

I hear ya, my larger point was that you can sell at any time and if you want a new car after a year or two, it's easier to make a change when compared to being "locked" into a 3 year lease. In other words, more flexibility/options.

I also thought we were comparing leasing new vs. buying CPO, but I've lost track of where the argument has gone. I would never argue buy new is better than leasing new.

If you negotiated a good lease, you can always swap the lease out. A 3 year commitment is small compared to a 6 year finance banking on a longer term residual.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by jmg

A used car will always be cheaper than a new car, leased or financed. I'm not sure why this is a good argument for the lease vs finance debate. You know what a leader walks away with at the end of 6 years? The experience of having 2 brand new cars with warranties. Not to mention
these cars will be better speced than the used 335i you got for $30k.

Like I've said from the beginning....it's about personal choice.

For some people it is better to drive a new car every three years and don't mind endless payments, driving stock looking cars and don't have a commute to worry about mileage restrictions



Some people like to own their cars at the end of 3-5 years of payments and not worry about mileage restrictions or modding a car so it doesn't look like a dime a dozen stock bmw.


Btw, you can find a spec'd out used bmw with warranty , it's all about how much you're willing to pay for it.

Currently looking at two f32 with M-sport/tech pkg (silver 13k miles) (white 9k miles cpo) that are under $30,000 ....

Also, how much more technology is there really in a 2017 f32 over a 2014?


People will spend their money how ever they want, there is no wrong way or right way....it's all about what's right for the individual

[jmg]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Like I've said from the beginning....it's about personal choice.

For some people it is better to drive a new car every three years and don't mind endless payments, driving stock looking cars and don't have a commute to worry about mileage restrictions



Some people like to own their cars at the end of 3-5 years of payments and not worry about mileage restrictions or modding a car so it doesn't look like a dime a dozen stock bmw.


Btw, you can find a spec'd out used bmw with warranty , it's all about how much you're willing to pay for it.

Currently looking at two f32 with M-sport/tech pkg (silver 13k miles) (white 9k miles cpo) that are under $30,000 ....

Also, how much more technology is there really in a 2017 f32 over a 2014?


People will spend their money how ever they want, there is no wrong way or right way....it's all about what's right for the individual

I'm one of those people that wants a new car more often. I've been a purchase guy for 18 years. In the span of that time I've found that 3 years or so was the most I wanted to keep a car. There is no way I want to keep a car more than 6 years anyway. I figure, if I can enjoy driving from age 20 to 70 that's 50 years of owning about 8 cars, or 50 years of getting to lease 16 cars. You only live once and I want to live as much as I can. BTW I currently have 4 cars. 2 are leased, the BMWs, and 2 are owned, both Japanese.... for good reason. Also, I have had my share of "modding" in my youth. Honestly I'd rather just lightly mod an already track worthy car than make a street car track worthy.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Like I've said from the beginning....it's about personal choice.

For some people it is better to drive a new car every three years and don't mind endless payments, driving stock looking cars and don't have a commute to worry about mileage restrictions



Some people like to own their cars at the end of 3-5 years of payments and not worry about mileage restrictions or modding a car so it doesn't look like a dime a dozen stock bmw.


Btw, you can find a spec'd out used bmw with warranty , it's all about how much you're willing to pay for it.

Currently looking at two f32 with M-sport/tech pkg (silver 13k miles) (white 9k miles cpo) that are under $30,000 ....

Also, how much more technology is there really in a 2017 f32 over a 2014?


People will spend their money how ever they want, there is no wrong way or right way....it's all about what's right for the individual

Id be a little wary of 2015 msport F32s, CPO with low mileage, listing for under 30k. The value would still be around 30k and generally a dealership will add on a few thousand, plus a few thousand on top of that if they're CPO.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by Fuller

Id be a little wary of 2015 msport F32s, CPO with low mileage, listing for under 30k. The value would still be around 30k and generally a dealership will add on a few thousand, plus a few thousand on top of that if they're CPO.

There is a 2014 CPO 428i m-sport right now at Bmw dealership in Phoenix area with very clean carfax 9,788 miles (lease return) on sale for $29,900 I’m thinking of driving out there this weekend ...

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

There is a 2014 CPO 428i m-sport right now at Bmw dealership in Phoenix area with very clean carfax 9,788 miles (lease return) on sale for $29,900 I’m thinking of driving out there this weekend ...

For some reason I was thinking that it was a 435i. A 2014 428i CPO for that seems about right. Best of luck with it, and in your search. The 4 series is one of my favorites. An m2 or m235/40i would be nice too.

[JimBean2014]

Originally Posted by JimBean2014

Yes, I just have not had a chance .. I'll take some this weekend

As promised...

[bimmer456]

Cross shop other dealerships and see what they have in their inventory. I would bargain with them and see what they can do to lower the payment if this is their initial offer.

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by Fuller

The cpo warranty will add an additional year of power train coverage after the factory warranty expires. This additional year is only power train though, not electronics etc, so coverage is limited. Of course you have the option of purchasing additional coverage in terms of duration and what's covered, but it'll cost you.

Got it thanks. That doesn't sound like much CPO coverage for the powertrain because most manufacturers give you 5yrs./70k, true?

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by LMK5

Got it thanks. That doesn't sound like much CPO coverage for the powertrain because most manufacturers give you 5yrs./70k, true?

My mistake, I believe the CPO does cover some electronics in some circumstances. Its not quite as comprehensive as the factory warranty though. If you look up the CPO program on the website, you can find a fine print list of what's not covered.

It is only an additional year after the factory warranty expires though, so it amounts to a maximum of 5 years total coverage from the date of the initial sale. They also offer another year of roadside assistance. For a price you can purchase an additional year of coverage, and extend what's covered, for a total of 6 years. You can also extend the maintenance plan, purchase a wheel and tire plan that includes cosmetic repairs and all the usual insurance plans. Of course that will all cost you. The base cpo coverage is only an additional year, and that costs you as well since cpo cars are listed for a few thousand more than what they would at a typical used car lot.

It's kind of a racket when you think about it. In the majority of cases, someone returns a lease, at which time the dealership performs the lease return inspection, then changes the oil, and if necessary, changes worn tires and brake pads if they are under 50% worn. In order to qualify as a cpo, the previous owner/leasee also needs to have performed all scheduled oil changes and maintenance within the dealership network or approved service center. Obviously any modifications that void the factory warranty would also void cpo. There might be some other things they check, and then the car is offered as a cpo, and they get to profit from the car again.

How carefully the car was checked probably depends largely on the dealership. You're sort of gambling on whether the person who leased the car abused it, and added on third party tunes and what not that might have accelerated wear on the car. We know that many people who lease still modify their cars, and simply return it to stock before turning it back in. There's a good chance that you're actually paying more for an extra year of limited coverage on a car that was tuned, beat on, and then rubber stamped as a cpo at lease-end. I mean it can be a good way to get a nice car for less, and you can find gently used cars under 25k miles, but I don't think it's much less risky (if at all) than any other used car purchase. It really just offers the extra year of coverage rolled into the list price.