[SlammedR8]

Originally Posted by soursamo

You certainly can, but BMW really doesn't like doing it. To the tune of charging for a cluster swap and $500 to pull the recall letter. Audi and Mercedes provide coding to do the MPH > KPH and the recall letters are free.

I do understand we are getting more included for the price, but a two year old M3 is the same price...

theres a little secret with that...you can actually request that recall letter from any BMW dealer in the US and they will give it to you free of charge.

You only pay the $500 if you request it from BMW Canada

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by soursamo

You certainly can, but BMW really doesn't like doing it. To the tune of charging for a cluster swap and $500 to pull the recall letter. Audi and Mercedes provide coding to do the MPH > KPH and the recall letters are free.

I do understand we are getting more included for the price, but a two year old M3 is the same price...

Regarding the 2 year old M3... if you want to talk depreciation that's another story! I just sold my 2008 M3. It cost me more than $1/km in depreciation. Every 1,000km cost me $1,000 (above the cost of fuel, etc.). It was in perfect condition when I sold it but I certainly took a brunt of the depreciation cost on it. Not sure I will buy new again although I am seriously tempted at times!

Fuel at an approx. 8l/100km x $1.00/l = $80 in fuel for 1,000km. So the depreciation cost me more than 10x the fuel. I thought about that once when I was filling up and it cost me $65 for the tank then I thought about the $650 in depreciation this tank will also cost me and it was a real bummer. But then I revved the V8 to 8,300rpm and the smile returned .

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by SlammedM6

theres a little secret with that...you can actually request that recall letter from any BMW dealer in the US and they will give it to you free of charge.

You only pay the $500 if you request it from BMW Canada

Great advice!

Has anyone else found that prices in the states for used vehicles aren't much cheaper these days than in Canada? I found about $3-4k difference on average for a similarly equipped X5 and the exchange and pain-in-the-butt factor wasn't enough to make up the difference.

[Frenk]

Originally Posted by Raikkonen

Can you even do that?

Some dealers near the border are not allowed to sell to canadians

Idk about bmw

[jtuds]

Originally Posted by jerrypon83

Poor our Canadian friend...

It's a GD joke....absolutely pathetic.

The 1 series M was $7000 more here as well.

[kv12]

Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm

Great advice!

Has anyone else found that prices in the states for used vehicles aren't much cheaper these days than in Canada? I found about $3-4k difference on average for a similarly equipped X5 and the exchange and pain-in-the-butt factor wasn't enough to make up the difference.

Yes, this is true this is because the recession from a few years ago which caused a significantly lower supply of 2008 end of leases.

[acceleration]

Originally Posted by kv12

At an MSRP of $43,600, the 328i has increased by $2,100, but is now loaded with additional standard equipment representing an added value of nearly $7,000!


Enhanced 328i standard equipment (almost $7,000 of added standard equipment)
Luxury Line
8-speed automatic transmission
Dakota Leather
18” light-alloy wheels
6.5” free-standing iDrive display
ECO PRO with Driving Experience Control (buttons located next to shift lever)
Automatic Start/Stop (automatic and manual)
Brake Energy Regeneration
Electric Power Steering
Comfort Go (keyless engine start)
Air Curtain

This is not a $7000 value to me. I do not want any of these features, and would opt out of them even if they were no-cost options. Being forced to pay extra for options I don't want is not adding any value.

I am sick of being ripped off by BMW Canada (have you looked at any parts prices lately vs. the US?). Back to shopping for slightly used cars from the US.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by Raikkonen

The disparity between the Canadian and US market (price wise) is ridiculous for BMW's, not to mention the overwhelming taxes that have to paid as well.

Being from Detroit, and a neighbor of Canada, I honestly feel sympathy for those that want to drive a new BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc.

Probably their reasoning for offering a 320i in the first place.

I guess it rests with the fact that BMW has to hedge its bets against the US/Canadian dollar, and their future values compared against one another.

For you guys in Canada, is it still cheaper to buy in Canada, or could you import from the US, pay taxes and duty, and still save $$$ ???? Just curious....

Can you even do that?

No it has to do with sales volume, just like when you go to a warehouse store like BJ's the crap costs less when you buy more. BMWAG sells cars to BMWNA at a set price based on price per unit. When an "option" is 100% or standard that means BMWAG is including it in the actual base price to BMWNA and it therefore is diluted. BMWNA promises to buy X units at y price to get better pricing and included options; Canada doesn't even equal Florida so they pay more per unit so BMWAG can make some money on the transaction and at the same time maintain a market.

The other thing people always forget with converting monetary units is that direct conversions do not work- purchasing power must be considered. The dollar still buys more than currencies that are converting as more. How much is a simple Coke or Big Mac in other markets (and that stuff is not exported from the US) it is always more because even thought the currency converts to being worth more it really is worth less.... I am not good at explaining it but if you spend ten minutes reading the Economist you'll get it.


Other markets also have different tax structures and while they are part of the purchase amount they are not really the car's price. People in other markets complain about VAT and how the US is lucky to not have it- at least in some countries like Canada and Germany (etc) there is some form of health care system and infrastructure that is maintained at reasonable levels- in the US those are paid privately or in other taxes depending on the state.

I live in Germany now and I am paying out about the same as I was in the US from one market to the other... fuel being the only thing that is not in line.

[DDS2015]

Originally Posted by Frenk

Some dealers near the border are not allowed to sell to canadians

Idk about bmw

US dealers aren't allowed to sell NEW cars to people without a US mailing address.

[bobby79]

The purchasing power argument makes sense.... but only when you are talking about different companies (i.e. Target vs. Walmart). This is not the case here. BMW Canada is actually a subsidiary of BMWNA. BMWNA does not adjust prices based on which states sell the most yet it does adjust the price on vehicles shipped to Canada (when really they could just treat it as another 'state')... so it's purely for additional profit. Then the dealers here double the delivery charge... fun times.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by bobby79

The purchasing power argument makes sense.... but only when you are talking about different companies (i.e. Target vs. Walmart). This is not the case here. BMW Canada is actually a subsidiary of BMWNA. BMWNA does not adjust prices based on which states sell the most yet it does adjust the price on vehicles shipped to Canada (when really they could just treat it as another 'state')... so it's purely for additional profit. Then the dealers here double the delivery charge... fun times.

The purchasing power argument only makes sense (to me) in terms of volume. And as bobby79 said, if BMW Canada truly is just a subsidiary of BMWNA, then it is a pure profit thing.

BMW Canada has to be careful because ripping off people can lead to revolts against the product even if the product is great. I am the biggest BMW fan ever (have loved BMW since I was 2) and am actually very seriously considering other makes now which is something that I never thought I would do.

And as someone else here said, I would rather BMW Canada not "add value" to the models by making standard a whole bunch of stuff I don't need or want to pay for. I would rather they just make the car available in a more basic format and allow me to build it to the price I want.

[Raikkonen]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

No it has to do with sales volume, just like when you go to a warehouse store like BJ's the crap costs less when you buy more. BMWAG sells cars to BMWNA at a set price based on price per unit. When an "option" is 100% or standard that means BMWAG is including it in the actual base price to BMWNA and it therefore is diluted. BMWNA promises to buy X units at y price to get better pricing and included options; Canada doesn't even equal Florida so they pay more per unit so BMWAG can make some money on the transaction and at the same time maintain a market.

The other thing people always forget with converting monetary units is that direct conversions do not work- purchasing power must be considered. The dollar still buys more than currencies that are converting as more. How much is a simple Coke or Big Mac in other markets (and that stuff is not exported from the US) it is always more because even thought the currency converts to being worth more it really is worth less.... I am not good at explaining it but if you spend ten minutes reading the Economist you'll get it.


Other markets also have different tax structures and while they are part of the purchase amount they are not really the car's price. People in other markets complain about VAT and how the US is lucky to not have it- at least in some countries like Canada and Germany (etc) there is some form of health care system and infrastructure that is maintained at reasonable levels- in the US those are paid privately or in other taxes depending on the state.

I live in Germany now and I am paying out about the same as I was in the US from one market to the other... fuel being the only thing that is not in line.

Great explanation; makes perfect sense.

Your point about gas is interesting as well, considering the fact that even in the US where gas is dirty-dirty cheap, it's also heavily taxed. Imagine how inexpensive it would be w/o tax!!! We are truly spoiled here...

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by bobby79

The purchasing power argument makes sense.... but only when you are talking about different companies (i.e. Target vs. Walmart). This is not the case here. BMW Canada is actually a subsidiary of BMWNA. BMWNA does not adjust prices based on which states sell the most yet it does adjust the price on vehicles shipped to Canada (when really they could just treat it as another 'state')... so it's purely for additional profit. Then the dealers here double the delivery charge... fun times.

It operates independently and gets its own allocations and the cars are built specifically for that market. It is not like another state.

The volume is off even if you look at the gauge cluster... costs more per unit and there are other things that go along with that. It has little to do with profit. They have offices, staff- and different regulations etc. If it was like a state they would not need all that.

BMW Canada INC.

[m-technik]

Being a Canadian we are quite use to paying way more for everything. Put it this way, if i lived in many States in the U.S., and made the same income as i do living in Vancouver B.C. Id be living in a large house, with a pool out back and a Porsche turbo in the garage. Instead i live in a 2 bedroom condo....its the price we pay for being Canadian.*

[ns2000x]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

Finally leather is standard on the 328i. It was pretty ridiculous previously that pretty much every competitor to a 328i came with leather standard but you had to pay extra for it with BMW. Its something people pretty well expect in a $50,000+ car (I'm talking after prep + tax).

Now if only they would add that kind of value to the X3. Again, it is sad that they nickle and dime you for leather on an X3 35i with the high price tag it comes with.

I had to pay for leather in my fairly costly M3. Good times.
I like the standard equipment packaged in the Canadian F30's. Huge thumbs up!

[bueller]

I am looking to buy a second home in Phoenix, when I do, I will buy my next BMW in the US. I used to live in SoCal, and I found that you get much better service, prices and selection at the dealers I dealt with.

In the US the cool thing is that you can go to a dealership, and if you are looking for a specific car, you can find it on the internet, then negotiate a price via email, go and pick up the car and drive away in 30 - 40 minutes.

I think that manufacturers consider dealers a necessary evil, I am sure they would not want to deal with their customers directly. I really like my BMW, but as a customer, I have felt far more appreciated by Porsche and Audi.

As a BMW customer, I can't help but feel that BMW Canada, and their respective dealerships look at me as a sucker. Thing is, when I drive the car, I don't really care that much, it just does little to make me a loyal customer.

My relationship with my dealer offers me little value, and the whole buy in Canada to protect resale value is not something that means that much to me.

I have dealt with these guys;

http://www.crossborder.net/vehicle_import_export.cfm

And have imported a car before, it is a pretty painless process.

As far as dealers not selling to Canadians, this is probably true over the phone, but I would bet if you show up at a dealership with cash, they would not turn you away, I would just not tell them I was taking the car out of the country. They will do an out of state purchase (no tax), in my experience, if you have $$$ in hand, policies and restrictions seem to have a way of melting away.

Once you have your shiny new car, you can drive it up to Watertown, the Cross Border guys will put a dealer plate on it and take it from there.

I would guess that you could save 5 - 10 K depending on the car with options buying this way. Well worth it, if not for the $$$ for the principle.

B

[Modmike]

Canadian pricing is bullshit. Read my article to how I imported mine and saved 10k.

[ovex]

Originally Posted by soursamo

Sooooo....42,400.00 USD = 43,181.37 CAD
Why are we paying $51,200 again?

42.400 USD = 233.200 NOK
Why are we paying 550.700 NOK again??

[airwave808]

Originally Posted by Raikkonen

The disparity between the Canadian and US market (price wise) is ridiculous for BMW's, not to mention the overwhelming taxes that have to paid as well.

Being from Detroit, and a neighbor of Canada, I honestly feel sympathy for those that want to drive a new BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc.

Probably their reasoning for offering a 320i in the first place.

I guess it rests with the fact that BMW has to hedge its bets against the US/Canadian dollar, and their future values compared against one another.

For you guys in Canada, is it still cheaper to buy in Canada, or could you import from the US, pay taxes and duty, and still save $$$ ???? Just curious....

Can you even do that?

Actually, it is not that bad. As one person mentioned that Canadian cars typically include more standard equipment, providing you want it. At the end of the day, the difference is about $3500 - $4000 on a well equipped 335i. Taxes are something no one can avoid. I do think if you play your cards right, then 7% off of MSRP is a possibility.

[Raspartan]

Originally Posted by airwave808

Actually, it is not that bad. As one person mentioned that Canadian cars typically include more standard equipment, providing you want it. At the end of the day, the difference is about $3500 - $4000 on a well equipped 335i. Taxes are something no one can avoid. I do think if you play your cards right, then 7% off of MSRP is a possibility.

Yes, more standard equipment but there are features (standard or optional) that are not offered here. The cost to BMW Canada is reduced in this way for the F30, although it's hard to say by how much.

[HouseMusicRules]

Originally Posted by airwave808

I do think if you play your cards right, then 7% off of MSRP is a possibility.

Wow... 7% off MSRP in Canada is fantastic! How does one go about getting such a discount? Talking to a fleet manager?

Regards,
HMR.

[deadlyrhythm]

To import a BMW manufactured in Germany from the US to Canada you need calculate the following:
- USD x currency exchange rate x GST (5%) x duty (6.1%)

On average, the cost is damn close to Canadian price.

Canada BMW also won't pay for the maintenance program.

I hate Canada BMW