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      08-29-2013, 08:44 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Jamesons Viggen if Z4M were an $80k car that delivers performance that is on par with other similarly priced cars like Z06 and GTR I don't see any reason why people wouldn't pay for Z4M. The problem comes when you have a $75k 35is that can not complete with $45k C6 Z51 or even $50k 1M.
It's not going to compete with them when it's saddled with a retractable hardtop and weighting 3500-3600lbs. The E89 has been less of a focused sports car, and more of a GT. A Z4M can be $80k, but it needs to be rewound to the Z3M/Z4M in terms of mission.
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      08-29-2013, 08:50 AM   #90
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Agreed, the E89 is beautiful, but too big and heavy.

When I bought my E36/8, it was small and there was no Cayman yet. The E85/86 was still a less polished and cheaper competitor than the Boxster/Cayman. Now the E89 has sort of lost the plot.

Hopefully they get back on track, Scott's info sounds promising.
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      08-29-2013, 08:56 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Nkc View Post
so you mean we having a
Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4, Z5
1er, 2er, 3er, 4er, 5er, 6er, 7er
X1, X2, X3, X5, X6
i3, I8

Am I missing any?
Yes. other than the series spinoffs, you still have to mention the X4, X7 and the 8er. ohh and the i5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      08-29-2013, 10:09 AM   #92
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Just read through the whole thread, damn you guys are being hard on Scott! Lighten up, he`s giving us future plans for the brand!

On-topic, with all this new models planned in the future, I`m kinda seeing BMW becoming more of a global brand catering to a whole wide audience. It seems to me that BMW while, is still a premium brand, is wanting more people to come into the brand regardless of wealth, hence the many new models coming. Hopefully these cars will be great!
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      08-29-2013, 01:12 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by IancoleTX View Post
The tone of this thread is completely unacceptable. Scott comes in here and gives us quality insider info - this is BMW reaching out to the enthusiast community with a peek into the details and the future. Appreciate it for what it's worth. Scott is not your whipping post for personal grievances against the brand, he is a valuable resource and should be treated as such.
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      08-29-2013, 01:42 PM   #94
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And right on cue Scott rolls through and releases a heady tidbit of unreleased information. Thanks very much!
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      08-29-2013, 02:45 PM   #95
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Scott26, i have two questions. First off, the important one: Is your name really Scott?

Quote:
My first question is, do you ever take some feedback from here to your upper management or design teams or are you just a marketing puppet (no pun intended) just looking for clarification.
I think i should fix the quote above and put it in better words: Do you tell your upper management that we want them dead? That was my second question.
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      08-29-2013, 11:04 PM   #96
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+1

That is what I took away from the Scott26's post until he gave that pleasant news at the end



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Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89 View Post
So what I took from Scott26's post is BMW is not going to be building AG cars that reflect their past. The 5er and 3er will continue to become more soft and the minority (us enthusiasts) will have to buy an M performance or M car to get performance oriented vehicles. BMW has a new corporate objective, building fuel efficient "premium" mainstream vehicles that are not focused on being the ultimate driving machine. Hey, as long as their shareholders are happy right....
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Last edited by Kayani_1; 08-30-2013 at 10:39 PM..
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      08-29-2013, 11:41 PM   #97
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I have few questions here. Are you talking about F10 5 series LCI version having improved steering over non LCI F10. So what are some of the changes that have caused this improvement.

Because if you are talking of comparing the steering feel of F10 in general vs E60 or E39. Then I think you are sadly mistaken as I have owned both an E60 545i and a E39 525i both for 5 years at a time. I went to go buy an F10 535i M-sport and was hugely disappointed with how it felt disconnected from the driver. It felt like it had moved up market further and the sport flavor was diluted further in favor of luxury flavor.


As for the F30 I have driven multiple examples and as a owner of E92 335i and E46 330i not to mention have driven multiple examples of all three over years F30, E9x, and F30. I can tell you that the plastic quality in some places on F30 is subpar, hard and cheap in comparison to other models. On the other hand yes the design theme of design on F30 is good but quality is not on par.

Also, you are right BMW built image on sports sedans etc. So why ruin that image by constantly diluting the brand image by making watered down sports sedans now.

The new F30, F10, and the 7 series are each more soft core then the last generation. How is that sensible. If BMW owners wanted soft core cars they would go to Lexus or host of other brands. Just to get few of the Lexus, Audi or Cadillac buyers to cross shop BMW it does not make sense to dilute the brand and alienate the current buyers and owners.


As for pure sports car issue. It is about time BMW brand that claims to have a slogan "Ultimate driving machine" would make and ultimate sports car in range of $50K-60K that could compete with the likes of Porsche Cayman S, Corvette stingray, and Lotus Exige S.

To me it is strange that company that is about performance brand imaging goes out and redesigns a good looking Z4 car. Yet during the redesign process instead of targeting the leader Porsche Boxster S goes and targets the heavy and far less exciting and thrilling performance machine in MB SLK. Now what is BMW design chiefs thinking. The hard top is not a bad idea but the rest of the car should have employed intensive weight loss and the suspension and handling should have been to target Porsche Boxter S not SLK. I mean the new Jaguar F type is more on a right track. Such a beautiful shape in Z4 wasted in my opinion.

I also thought about buying a Z4 35is but how does one do that when you can see what Porsche Boxster S or Porsche Cayman S offer.

Bottom line I know BMW focus might be prospective buyers but like one of the poster here said how about us current owners that are already part of the family. Why ignore us is our money not good for BMW


By the way thanks for taking part in this discussion. I am also waiting for the answer do you ever take feedback from here to the BMW. Also, are you actually employed with BMW or just an insider with information.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The difference between the MINI and BMW City Compact will be evident from appearance inside and out and how the car will drive. The architecture is modular and will be shared across several models which will broaden the individuality between the two brands.

In Europe volume car makers are being decimated by premium manufactures , the potential for a FWD BMW City Compact is there , and especially in other global markets.

The Active Tourer concept shows a typical Space vehicle but reconfigured the BMW way which not only is it more practical but stylish and very sporty looking. One thing you cannot say about the Active Tourer is that it is a typical van with windows and actual embodies more of an actual car like appearance.

BMW and MINI models will not be one vehicle with the brands badge on the front like VW offer in Europe. If you are premium you will not get away with that.

The sports car market is something that has to be done right or else you spend money for no reason. BMW has not offered a Super sports car since the M1 and considering our competitors , we have managed to do well without one, especially if we focus research and resources into current models.

The M3CSL is one example it led to further investigation of utilising CFRP and at that time in 2001 with the first concept it was expensive to use but progress determined that BMW could utilise further within the M3 and M6 and now with further investment we have the advent of two very different cars that have bodies manufactured out of CFRP. And those two cars represent the next generation of BMW especially in innovation and application of material technology.

We are two years from the launch of the all new 7er and that will be an exciting time for BMW.
We will then see those genes passed down between each model.

I have driven many example of the F20 and F30 including F31 , F34 and F32 yet I fail to see where the quality is not perfect. Every example I have been in has been solid , well manufactured and quality evident , the grain texture even surpasses the E90 series.

At BMW the 5er is termed as the business mans car . That is mainly its demographic and the best selling 5er is the 520d , its success is defined by its compentcy and its ability to provide comfort and rejuvenation with physical aspects. A 5er can take anything that is thrown at it.
In the US the demographic is different its described more as a sports sedan for the mid-luxury segment that is perhaps due to the availability of 535i and 550i before 528i and 535d.

The 5er like all BMWs has a global market and Europe remains the largest market for the 5er but globally the 5er remains the benchmark because of its ability to deliver on all levels of compentcy and that includes a dynamic edge.

Also I suggest you give the new 5er a drive as the steering is sharper than before and when driven back to back you can feel and appreciate the changes that have been made.

Image used for illustration.
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Last edited by Kayani_1; 08-30-2013 at 10:37 PM..
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      08-29-2013, 11:49 PM   #98
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Now that is some much needed good news Scott26.

I think among these variants of Z's a fixed hard top version would be awesome. One that should be designed squarely towards the enthusiast. A dedicated performance machine for $50K range aimed at the Lotus Exiges S and Cayman S and Corvette Stingray.

Are there any chances of BMW going Mid-engine configuration for this fixed hard top version of light weight Z. Because I think that would be the ultimate. A proper sports car with engine in proper place for greater chassis balance and handling. It will also improve steering feel by taking weight off the front wheels.

Please, no EPS electric steering just a good ol fashioned HPS or better yet if they use extensive Carbon reinforced fiber for light weight purpose keep the weight minimum by going back to basic NO PS.

Second, as someone already mentioned it needs to have proper cooling so it does not over heat on track and go in limp mode after 30 minutes. I am also not against the high performance hybrid engine with twin turbo I6 and electric motor. The electric motor giving that instantaneous acceleration from just above 0 rpm then running up at max until the turbos take over around 1500 rpm. This way the engine would have even better then the NA engine response on track. Also, the car would be more fuel efficient for daily driving. But the key is to keep the car super light weight.




Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Many within the company wishes for an M Z4 but unfortunately the market is small. It is possible to do a ltd model like the 1er M Coupe but there is no decision to do this.
There was the plan to absorb the Z4 iS into the M Performance line but this fell through in the final hour.

We will shortly be presenting our collaboration with Toyota for a new interpretation of a new highly focused sports car first as a concept. The production car will be called the Z5 which allows us to align a new UKL based Z1 with equivalent MINI sports car along with a mid sized Z3 (the name is coming back) which again could be aligned with Toyota.
Although for some markets Toyota might use Lexus branding.

The Z5 Roadster will feature design , both exterior and interior from BMW as well as BMW engines , Toyota will supply optional hybrid technology and BMW will supply CFRP in its construction. A coupe will follow.

The new "Z" design is influenced by the Vision ConnectedDrive Concept Car.

Image used for illustration purpose.
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Last edited by Kayani_1; 08-30-2013 at 12:19 AM..
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      08-30-2013, 02:32 AM   #99
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Kayani I don't understand why you shop for non m 5er and complain about "handling, steering feel and weight"

it would be silly to have a mainstream large car like 528 or 535 that tried to be very sporty because it would fail miserably in the market. If the non m 5er volume model does not sell enthusiasts don't get the m5....

By the way you do realize the f type v6 s is 3800lb right? You sure it is on the "right track"? e89 z4 which is lighter and $20k cheaper....
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      08-30-2013, 11:18 PM   #100
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LOL......you are not serious are you. How many 5 series and 7 series have you owned in past? So that I can get an idea of where that opinion is coming from. Because I am confused as to why you would say that.

In past one did not have to always buy an M in 5 series to enjoy a great balance of sports and luxury. An E39 5 series was a sweet sports sedan even in non-M version. Ditto goes for E60 5 series. If you don't want to take the word of an owner who had both versions for more then 5 years each. Then just go read some reviews and you will see what I am talking about. Those generations of 5 series did not lose badly to cars in their class. They won most comparisons and were hands down much more sporty then this F10.

As for who would buy them if they were sporty? Come on now you are kidding me right. The previous generation 5 series cars that were far more sporty compared to their rivals are the ones that build the legend and sale were ever increasing when they were in production. To me the F10 dilutes teh 5 series brand image. The current generation F10 non-M cars are a let down in comparison as they are too soft. They are not superior to their rivals either and in fact lately lose most comparisons. Going from class leading to losing goes very much in line with my personal opinion of F10 after being a long term owner of both an E39 and E60. I will also go on and say that BMW had pretty good sales success with the previous generations 7 series E65 and E38. They both felt far more sporty then the F01 7 series. Both those earlier generations 7ers had plenty of buyers lined up to buy them including me. As I owned a E65 745i when it came out in short wheel base version and can tell you that it felt even more sporty then the current F10 5 series.

Maybe you are right and who buys sporty larger size cars because we got plenty of Lexus LS lovers. But then again maybe you are missing the point by ignoring the Porsche, Maserati, and Aston who make sporty larger luxury sedans. One can buy Porsche Panamera flavors and know immediately that you will get a driver oriented large sedan and not some soft core fluff wannabe sports sedan.


As for how is the Jaguar F type on right track compared to Z435is. Get behind the wheel of the Jaguar F type and tell me if it does not feel more sport oriented then the Z435is without holding any prejudice. Now don't get me wrong I never said the F type is perfect. It could benefit from losing more weight. But the car is tuned right. In my opinion it is still more on a right track for first effort then Z435is is after being successive efforts.

If I was buying in that class I would not have the Z4 or Porsche or F type. I would buy a Lotus Exige S or jut buy a stingray. That Exige S makes the Porsche look tame and less fun to drive and stingray is the best bang for the buck performance machine period.




Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Kayani I don't understand why you shop for non m 5er and complain about "handling, steering feel and weight"

it would be silly to have a mainstream large car like 528 or 535 that tried to be very sporty because it would fail miserably in the market. If the non m 5er volume model does not sell enthusiasts don't get the m5....

By the way you do realize the f type v6 s is 3800lb right? You sure it is on the "right track"? e89 z4 which is lighter and $20k cheaper....
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Last edited by Kayani_1; 08-31-2013 at 08:33 AM..
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      08-31-2013, 07:06 AM   #101
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I'm really starting to get tired of this forum, way too many douches. Guess that article about BMW drivers was right.
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      08-31-2013, 09:16 AM   #102
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I tried the e39 540 and e60 550 and thought there was not enough performance. Again, they are big cars so that is just how it goes.

Cayenne is a great example. I have tracked one and it is way more agile and fun than something that huge has any right to be.

But at the end of the day it is good "considering its size" and that qualifier applies to any of the cars (panamera, quattroporte, etc) you mentioned.
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      08-31-2013, 11:46 AM   #103
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First I would like to say that I think "Scott" is one of the great assets this forum has over others. Second, I've owned BMWs since the 1980s and I used to like every single model except the 7 but now there is honestly not a single model in production that interests me. There is currently no M car below 4000 lbs. There is no F-series car with acceptable steering feel. EDC with comfort mode has compromised the premium suspension options and so on. At this rate BMW risks becoming an invisible brand like Lexus and Benz to long time fans. Compare that with Porsche where I'm interested in every single model ( Put my money where my mouth is this spring and got a 2013 Cayenne ). With their growth into new segments they are becoming the new "old" BMW. I have hope for the F8X but I lament the loss of the legendary BMW and their near perfect stable of ultimate driving machines at attractive price points. If the 991 was not so ridiculously expensive we would be a two Porsche family by next year.

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      08-31-2013, 11:27 PM   #104
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With all the complaints, I am glad to hear that everyone's driving pre-91 bmw's or should we call it pre-cup holders.
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      09-07-2013, 11:14 AM   #105
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I am not so sure that most here have a problem with post 91 era cars. As they still offered plenty of fun and performance. It is the cars designed post 2007 that are a bit lacking and have moved over more to the luxury end then the sports end.

The only exception to the rule is 335is, and 1M.
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      03-20-2015, 10:40 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1
I am not so sure that most here have a problem with post 91 era cars. As they still offered plenty of fun and performance. It is the cars designed post 2007 that are a bit lacking and have moved over more to the luxury end then the sports end.

The only exception to the rule is 335is, and 1M.
I would also dare to include the 135i/135iS into that bunch. This may strike as a tad bit bias given I drive one of these cars, however the main reason I purchased it was because it was a great handling and dynamic car and thus reminded me of old BMWs.
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      03-20-2015, 03:59 PM   #107
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Is this back again?
OK hit me!
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The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
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      03-20-2015, 04:17 PM   #108
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Damnit Scott... Do you realize how much softer the 3 series suspension has gotten since September of 2013. Can you address rumors that the next 5 series suspension is being tuned by Simmons Beautyrest?
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      03-20-2015, 08:50 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Is this back again?
OK hit me!
Hey Scott, can you talk about what F05 was supposed to be? I found conflicting reports about it.

Also, recently BMW canceled F47 X2 in favor of the F39 X2/XCite. Can you talk about the differences between these two projects?
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      03-20-2015, 10:25 PM   #110
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Dear Scott,

Did BMW sell it's soul to the devil in exchange for mad profits and growth?
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