[USC2000]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

what's the point of a tune warranty that covers the same amount of years/miles as BMW has already given you???

To fix your engine should it blow up during that time frame.

[USC2000]

Originally Posted by S4NoMore

Good question. The Dinan warranty page really makes it seem that if a buyer has 1 year, or 1 month, or 1 day left on the factory warranty, the Dinan coverage expires at that same time. I hope that isn't the case, and the warranty simply needs to be restated as "balance of factory warranty or 2 years from date of Dinan purchase, whichever is longer."

I don't think the tune is meant to be an extended warranty for your engine.

[IndotagSwizz]

Originally Posted by USC2000

To fix your engine should it blow up during that time frame.

It's covered by BMW

[IndotagSwizz]

If you like the Dinan tune go get it but don't try to tell me it's better because they make better quality products than other brands yet you can't prove that, or tell me it comes with a warranty that expires at the same time BMW's free warranty expires.
That's like buying a flat screen tv at brandsmart that comes with a 1 year warranty and the sales guy tells you: "you should also get this "magic" warranty for an extra $300 it covers your TV against anything for 1 year, God forbid you plug in a ps4 and blow up the graphics board"

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

It's covered by BMW

Its not covered if your engine blows and they can prove you had a tune and prove the tune was the problem. Its your word against theirs and it will take weeks and months to settle the case while your car sits collecting dust. Who would really want to go through that hassle over a little 1000 bucks? Lets face it not all engines have the same tolerances. Not all electronics have the same tolerances. Not all products of any nature have the same tolerances. Everything in this world is made with a tolerance of +/- %'s. If everything was perfectly made then we would have no warranties at all.

Not trying to slam a JB4 but that tune requires you to tap wires (not stage 1). I know a lot of BMW techs in our area and they ALL know what to look for and where to look. Then you have BMW NA that can and will do a data dump and if you are showing boosting of 3-4psi over stock, they will know you had a tune. As another member said, with the computers now log EVERYTHING. The days of getting by are limited and numbered. We had one member on here that did get his engine replaced and one that did not. I am sure there are others out there that we do not know about as one tuning company claims they sold 1000s and we don't have 1000s on the board that contribute. I know one local guy personally not on the boards and his engine blew with a common tune and no warranty.

I still have two years left on my warranty and for me to pay 500 per year as 'insurance' is worth it to me for peace of mind. I don't have to worry about taking it out to get maintenance work done or have to worry about if I do have a problem to tow it home, take the tune out and clear codes and pray to the car Gods that they don't find anything. One of my good friends is a top BMW tech that is mod friendly said the engine does log everything and there are codes given within the computer that are not displayed necessarily that do give evidence of a tune and wont come up on a typical code scan.

I am not trying to get anyone to buy a Dinan tune. It's your car and your money. Just explaining why some of us will pay that extra 1000 bucks even if it was exactly like the others. Hell I would pay that for a little less performance if I have the warranty.

Comparing it to a TV is ridiculous because you are not modifying the TV by hooking up a PS4. The PS4 does nothing to the TVs electronics. A better comparison would be if you have a 1080p TV and want to modify the board to project 4k. Then at that time you are modifying and would be a fair comparison and in that case you are also not covered by the factory warranty.

[IndotagSwizz]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

Its not covered if your engine blows and they can prove you had a tune and prove the tune was the problem. Its your word against theirs and it will take weeks and months to settle the case while your car sits collecting dust. Who would really want to go through that hassle over a little 1000 bucks? Lets face it not all engines have the same tolerances. Not all electronics have the same tolerances. Not all products of any nature have the same tolerances. Everything in this world is made with a tolerance of +/- %'s. If everything was perfectly made then we would have no warranties at all.

Not trying to slam a JB4 but that tune requires you to tap wires (not stage 1). I know a lot of BMW techs in our area and they ALL know what to look for and where to look. Then you have BMW NA that can and will do a data dump and if you are showing boosting of 3-4psi over stock, they will know you had a tune. As another member said, with the computers now log EVERYTHING. The days of getting by are limited and numbered. We had one member on here that did get his engine replaced and one that did not. I am sure there are others out there that we do not know about as one tuning company claims they sold 1000s and we don't have 1000s on the board that contribute. I know one local guy personally not on the boards and his engine blew with a common tune and no warranty.

I still have two years left on my warranty and for me to pay 500 per year as 'insurance' is worth it to me for peace of mind. I don't have to worry about taking it out to get maintenance work done or have to worry about if I do have a problem to tow it home, take the tune out and clear codes and pray to the car Gods that they don't find anything. One of my good friends is a top BMW tech that is mod friendly said the engine does log everything and there are codes given within the computer that are not displayed necessarily that do give evidence of a tune and wont come up on a typical code scan.

I am not trying to get anyone to buy a Dinan tune. It's your car and your money. Just explaining why some of us will pay that extra 1000 bucks even if it was exactly like the others. Hell I would pay that for a little less performance if I have the warranty.

Comparing it to a TV is ridiculous because you are not modifying the TV by hooking up a PS4. The PS4 does nothing to the TVs electronics. A better comparison would be if you have a 1080p TV and want to modify the board to project 4k. Then at that time you are modifying and would be a fair comparison and in that case you are also not covered by the factory warranty.

Exactly my point the fair comparison will be to BMS Stage1, no wires need to cut 100% plug n play, impossible to blame it on the tune all you gotta do is unplug it. JB4 requires to tap into some wires but is not a fair comparison because it actually gives you more power for a third of the price.
But anyways keep your piece of mind, which by the way is going to expire as soon as your BMW warranty expires and then what..? What are you going to do then unplug it and throw it away? Oh wait no you are going to have to pay the dealer to take it out for you because you can't do it yourself... Or maybe by then the people that sold you the tune will clown you again and sell you an "extended warranty" for another $2000...

[S4NoMore]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

If you like the Dinan tune go get it but don't try to tell me it's better because they make better quality products than other brands yet you can't prove that, or tell me it comes with a warranty that expires at the same time BMW's free warranty expires.

I think the post on the M5 forum is pretty convincing, and believable since the Dinan box splices between the harness and the DME itself rather than intercepting individual sensor signals. I don't find it difficult to believe that Dinan has put more resources into their tuning and come out with something at least a little more refined.

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

Exactly my point the fair comparison will be to BMS Stage1, no wires need to cut 100% plug n play, impossible to blame it on the tune all you gotta do is unplug it. JB4 requires to tap into some wires but is not a fair comparison because it actually gives you more power for a third of the price.
But anyways keep your piece of mind, which by the way is going to expire as soon as your BMW warranty expires and then what..? What are you going to do then unplug it and throw it away? Oh wait no you are going to have to pay the dealer to take it out for you because you can't do it yourself... Or maybe by then the people that sold you the tune will clown you again and sell you an "extended warranty" for another $2000...

I think you missed the part about BMW NA doing a data dump. Even the stage 1 leaves digital evidence it was installed when they do a mass download of engine parameters. You don't have to believe me. If the unit is on my car for 2 years and no problems, then I can assure you it will stay on there with peace of mind. I can also assure you, if I sell my car, a Dinan tune will not be frowned upon like another tune would be. Regardless of your personal opinion of Dinan, they do have a great reputation by the general population and is a name people trust in the car world.

Why would you have to pay the dealer to take it out? LOL... I have built cars that won national titles, I am more than capable of putting the tune in or pulling it out. The Dinan warranty is not affected by a self install as they have already stated.

You are wrong with your comparison. While the stage 1 is plug and play you are altering the performance. A PS4 or any other game console or DVD player or anything else does not change the 'performance' (key word) of a TV. It does not make a TV perform at a higher resolution than it was designed to do or changes any other electrical parameters. Consumer electronics manufacture is my profession. Probably not a wise choice to debate this area either.

Listen, no one is clowning anyone. Anything in this world has a chance to fail. You pay to play. Some people will choose the less risky route while others don't. Some people take the chance at driving drunk and some people don't. There are 1000s of people that drive drunk every day and never get caught, but those that do get caught regret it. You never know if you will be the one. Same can be said in the modifying world. I have modified cars and electronics since before i was legally able to drive. I personally never damaged a car doing it, but we were also dealing with engines that were a lot less money. This motor to replace cost more than the majority of cars on the road. If you feel it is a waste to spend the extra money, none of my business, but in the same token if there are those of us that have no problem spending an extra 1000 bucks to have the insurance on a 25k motor, then we are not clowns, we are not fools. The fools are the ones that don't take the safe approach and complain about it after they get popped by the police or in this case have a blown motor and their car is nothing, but a paperweight.

I don't agree with Dinan-accessorizing my car because all the other things are low dollar to replace like suspension, exhaust and such. But like I mentioned gambling on a 25k motor replacement, 1k is pocket change compared to 25k.

[IndotagSwizz]

So they took 4 years to come out with a tune when everybody else had it right away, and the best explanation as why it's better is that maybe because they split the harness it's slightly better.... Whatever all I keep hearing is company lines... I'm not for any tune in particular nor against Dinan, but I'm def. against people stealing others people hard earned money. All I'm saying is that I see the BMW dealer making money by installing their product, the tune makes a ton of money because they charge you a fortune. And people not making any bigger gains (hp) than similar but much less priced tunes or actually being covered by warranty other than the one you were already covered by.

[BeachsideF30]

What a pissing match. If you do want it then don't get it, its a simple concept.

[IndotagSwizz]

And by the way let me make this clear, No engine in this forum has blown up from just a tune, feel free to look it up, the 2 or 3 people that blew out their motor had a lot more than a stage 1 tune, like downpipe etc.
So please stop trying to scare people claiming that some tunes might blow up your engine this is 100% false and incorrect.
Therefore there is no gamble at all, I myself have a tune with over 10k and never had a problem with the tune nor any warranty work being done to the car.
A lot of people just never bother to read how a warranty really works. Guess what's going to happen when you add a DP to your Dinan tune??? Dinan is just going to blame it on the DP and claim their product didn't cause the problem, just wait you'll find out the hard way, or maybe Dinan will sell you a $2000 DP and cover it with the warranty your car already had.

[IndotagSwizz]

Originally Posted by BeachsideF30

What a pissing match. If you do want it then don't get it, its a simple concept.

Work is slow today lol

[Dippydo]

I don't plan on adding a DP, just a tune. No one is trying to scare anyone. The guy I mentioned, tune only. There are motors that blow without a tune so why can't a motor blow with just a tune? A tune can expose a weak spot in a motor or turbo that under normal operation could operate fine but on the edge. So to say a tune cannot blow a motor is not accurate because one I just told you I personally know a guy that did and two if you know anything about how products are made, you will know something about tolerances. Let's suppose it is a manufacturer's defect, I personally do not have the time in my personal life to hire an attorney and fight a company such as BMW over who's fault it is.

Also not sure where you got 4 years in development. The car is just hitting 3 years when they rolled out. N20 has been around longer, but for the sake of tuning the 3 series we just hit 3 years not 4.

Let's be clear, I am not saying Burger products are junk. They are good products, I am just willing to pay more for the insurance for that one case out of a thousand where something fails and I am that guy.

[USC2000]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

It's covered by BMW

Not if it's caused by the tune.

[IndotagSwizz]

Originally Posted by USC2000

Not if it's caused by the tune.

They will have to prove that the tune caused the problem just like you are going to have to prove to Dinan that whatever breaks in your car was caused by their tune and not something else, why does everybody think Dinan is going to cover you no matter what? Do your research they have denied warranty work before.. Good luck and enjoy your "limited insurance, warranty, or whatever you want to call it" for whatever period of BMW warranty you have left

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

I think you missed the part about BMW NA doing a data dump. Even the stage 1 leaves digital evidence it was installed when they do a mass download of engine parameters. You don't have to believe me. If the unit is on my car for 2 years and no problems, then I can assure you it will stay on there with peace of mind. I can also assure you, if I sell my car, a Dinan tune will not be frowned upon like another tune would be. Regardless of your personal opinion of Dinan, they do have a great reputation by the general population and is a name people trust in the car world.

Why would you have to pay the dealer to take it out? LOL... I have built cars that won national titles, I am more than capable of putting the tune in or pulling it out. The Dinan warranty is not affected by a self install as they have already stated.

You are wrong with your comparison. While the stage 1 is plug and play you are altering the performance. A PS4 or any other game console or DVD player or anything else does not change the 'performance' (key word) of a TV. It does not make a TV perform at a higher resolution than it was designed to do or changes any other electrical parameters. Consumer electronics manufacture is my profession. Probably not a wise choice to debate this area either.

Listen, no one is clowning anyone. Anything in this world has a chance to fail. You pay to play. Some people will choose the less risky route while others don't. Some people take the chance at driving drunk and some people don't. There are 1000s of people that drive drunk every day and never get caught, but those that do get caught regret it. You never know if you will be the one. Same can be said in the modifying world. I have modified cars and electronics since before i was legally able to drive. I personally never damaged a car doing it, but we were also dealing with engines that were a lot less money. This motor to replace cost more than the majority of cars on the road. If you feel it is a waste to spend the extra money, none of my business, but in the same token if there are those of us that have no problem spending an extra 1000 bucks to have the insurance on a 25k motor, then we are not clowns, we are not fools. The fools are the ones that don't take the safe approach and complain about it after they get popped by the police or in this case have a blown motor and their car is nothing, but a paperweight.

I don't agree with Dinan-accessorizing my car because all the other things are low dollar to replace like suspension, exhaust and such. But like I mentioned gambling on a 25k motor replacement, 1k is pocket change compared to 25k.

I have 3 long time buddies at various dealers at various levels, senior service advisor to senior tech and a warranty investigator at BMW NA. The complete computer dump to NA will not show a tune if you remove it and clear all the codes on the N20 or the n55. HOWEVER, they are able to see it on the n54 data dump. As my buddy at BMW NA put it, if your tune doesn't raise the rev limiter and you don't go over the stock one, they have no way of telling if it was tuned via the data dump. As for boost levels, because the tune raises the boost itself - for example, as it was explained to me, it tells the computer your only pushing x psi when you are really pushing x+4, so the computer raises the boost to meet what it should be under the stock map while the tune is actually putting out more boost, thus never registering the extra PSI. Now that may not be how the tune works (I'm not 100%) but what I am 100% about is the fact that the data dump doesn't show anything on the n20 that would indicate a tune of you have removed the JB4 and have cleared all codes. Thus, warranty claims are left to local techs to try and disqualify you by trying to see if the wires are stripped. If the data dump solved everything, they would just connect and upload, but since it doesn't on the n20 they need to look for other evidence of ecu tampering.

Again this comes from my contacts at the different stages of BMW. I will agree with the above poster that the hassle of fighting the manufacture to prove the tune caused damage may not be worth it for some people. But if you have the ability I would always fight it. But more importantly I would not try to go after more than just normal stage 1 power without EWG control

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

I have 3 long time buddies at various dealers at various levels, senior service advisor to senior tech and a warranty investigator at BMW NA. The complete computer dump to NA will not show a tune if you remove it and clear all the codes on the N20 or the n55. HOWEVER, they are able to see it on the n54 data dump. As my buddy at BMW NA put it, if your tune doesn't raise the rev limiter and you don't go over the stock one, they have no way of telling if it was tuned via the data dump. As for boost levels, because the tune raises the boost itself - for example, as it was explained to me, it tells the computer your only pushing x psi when you are really pushing x+4, so the computer raises the boost to meet what it should be under the stock map while the tune is actually putting out more boost, thus never registering the extra PSI. Now that may not be how the tune works (I'm not 100%) but what I am 100% about is the fact that the data dump doesn't show anything on the n20 that would indicate a tune of you have removed the JB4 and have cleared all codes. Thus, warranty claims are left to local techs to try and disqualify you by trying to see if the wires are stripped. If the data dump solved everything, they would just connect and upload, but since it doesn't on the n20 they need to look for other evidence of ecu tampering.

Again this comes from my contacts at the different stages of BMW. I will agree with the above poster that the hassle of fighting the manufacture to prove the tune caused damage may not be worth it for some people. But if you have the ability I would always fight it. But more importantly I would not try to go after more than just normal stage 1 power without EWG control

Well I have conflicting advice or information from people I consider very credible. I will err on the side of caution. Don't feel like gambling with 25k. At least not on an engine.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

Well I have conflicting advice or information from people I consider very credible. I will err on the side of caution. Don't feel like gambling with 25k. At least not on an engine.

Agreed! which is why I don't do insane mods on a car proven not to handle it. Haven't heard of anyone with an N20 having a problem pushing only stage 1 power. Its the guys with stage 2 and downpipes I've heard having problems. and the random bad injectors and rods on some 2012-2013 models. No word yet on any 2014 models having issues under stage 2 or stock, unless someone out there knows of any.

[USC2000]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

They will have to prove that the tune caused the problem just like you are going to have to prove to Dinan that whatever breaks in your car was caused by their tune and not something else, why does everybody think Dinan is going to cover you no matter what? Do your research they have denied warranty work before.. Good luck and enjoy your "limited insurance, warranty, or whatever you want to call it" for whatever period of BMW warranty you have left

Don't be ignorant to what you think BMW can determine. I never stated any of the above, so all your assumptions are wrong, but that's your issue not mine.

[Larry Chijner]

Why don't the people that want to buy Burger buy Burger and the Dinan People buy
Dinan.
I want Dinan for many reasons I don't have to justify to anyone but myself.
People need to chill out and do whatever turns you on.
As long as you are happy that is all that matters.There are benefits to both tunes.
Good luck with whatever you choose and enjoy..
Live and Let Live. Peace Out

[andrew.webber]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

The exhaust clip for the 328i has been the bane of my existence. I can tell you its not for lack of trying to get it. Every time the car gets put back together its immediately back out as a loaner and when it comes back it seems to be back in pieces before we can get to it / aware it's back. Currently it's out as a loaner. When it comes back again in a week or so I will attempt to get a sound clip again. With any luck I will be successful or perhaps it will continue to be my white whale. Regardless, rest assured I will post it up on the forums, facebook, and product pages as soon as I am able as it will personally be a victory most sweet.

Any Update on this please Dinan-Engineering. So many products out there have clips available, but I can not find any for the Dinan Exhaust even now!!
Surely, it doe snot many many minutes to get a video done and then edited especially as it is a major sales tool?

Thanks

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by andrew.webber

Any Update on this please Dinan-Engineering. So many products out there have clips available, but I can not find any for the Dinan Exhaust even now!!
Surely, it doe snot many many minutes to get a video done and then edited especially as it is a major sales tool?

Thanks

New thread just posted. You can see/hear the exhaust there.