[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by batislav

Using the BMWUSA and Cadillac websites the ATS is .3 inches longer than the F30. 182.8 vs 182.5.

Attachment 725731

Attachment 725730

Yeah your right. I was thinking in terms of the wheelbase.

[Wolf]

interesting

[thebuddha]

As for the ATS, it seems like they've gotten the chassis, steering, braking and styling right, the transmission pretty close, and the only real issues are the top and bottom range engines. It's almost as if the adoption of those two existing mills were the concession the Caddy team had to make for such an ambitious endeavor, from a bottom line and practicality perspective. Here's hoping some of their new engines can better take advantage of this exciting platform.

I for one wholly endorse the open competition, for what's better than best man (or woman) wins. And I think it is high time for another automaker to step into a vacancy that the changing characteristics of the 3-series (softer and less connnected ride and handling, increasing proportions, luxury oriented) has left behind. Well, a vacancy that might soon be filled by a 4-door 1-series.

[Tallest]

I like twin exhaust thing it has.... that's all really.Looks dull. May be just pics or Color, caddy should be black.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by Hoosiers

As a current e92 M3 owner, and a previous e46 M3 owner, I'm looking forward to see what they do with the V version of the upcoming coupe if they keep the weight down. The M3 keeps getting bigger and bigger and the next generation F30 based will be no different. I'll miss my V8 as they're moving towards a turbo 6 and his may be a chance for the ATS to pounce with a NA V8 (probably 5.5L from the C7 vette). GM makes good V8 engines. The LS7 puts out 505 hp, is light, and is more fuel efficient than the 4.0L S65.

The ATS-V should definitely be a contender and I am looking forward to the pricing. GM typically discounts their cars a lot more than BMW and that may tip the sales in the ATS' favor.

It does seem that the ATS is significantly heavier than the F30 (http://jalopnik.com/5928279/cadillac...alopnik-review) so they will need to work a lot harder to keep up with the next gen F30 M3 which will be lighter and more powerful than the current version.

[r3dbimmer89]

Originally Posted by dude987

Cadillac wants to compete in the olympics and their strategy is to try to keep up with the fastest runner. Boring. It's the same old song and dance year after year. Mismanagement, incompetence, and unable to compete. BMW has invested heavily in R&D year over year to become competitive and relevant in their industry. The results are reflected in their corporate profits bottom line (indisputable). GM executives have neglected R&D year or year in lieu of pocketing over paid compensation, bonuses, and stock options. The result of R&D neglect has resulted in an impotent company that had to be bailed out by the US government and held the US taxpayers hostage to their incompetence. Yes you and I paid for their multi-million dollar salaries year over year while they laughed all the way to the bank. Honestly they should have been allowed to fail. It's called capitalism. Survival of the fittest. Why should taxpayers bail out incompetent businesses? To this day, they are still not competitive and will continue to rely on US taxpayers to bail them out while they continue to neglect R&D and run their business into the ground.

The only way GM can survive is to produce a product that offers better performance and at a better value then the leading competitor (BMW maybe?). The company is so bankrupt that they can't even afford to baseline R&D. It takes years of investments in R&D before it even begins to produce the fruits of its capital.

Until GM can produce a better performance product and at a better value, this whole discussion about BMW and ATS is stupid.

Vent is not directed at the OP or anyone else on this thread. Just wish GM would $h!t of get off the pot. They need to get serious and can incompetent management. Don't hold the taxpayers hostage to executive compensation. Seriously!!!

I agree although it wouldnt have been economically feasible for the US to let GM go bankrupt as it would have caused a world wide depression. Let's not forget that GM owns subsidiaries worldwide and would have caused 100k or more losses in jobs worldwide. It wouldve been a mess for a already weak global economy.

Back the OP.... I want to like this car and it seems to be a good car but not as good as a 3er Hands down.... I see a lot of 65 YO retired former MILFs driving these in Pearl White and Leopard print tights.

[arnsbrae]

Looking in from outside...

I have felt for a while that has been two glaring gaps in the US automotive scene.

The first is a stylish, desirable alternative to the German sports\ luxury manufacturers and the ATS looks like a big step in the right direction. You shouldn't really aim to exactly match the Germans (and Brits with Jag). They need to create something with it's own Cadillac DNA because competing doesn't mean being the same.
In fact, Jaguar is a good example as it is differentiated but still a credible alternative. Does the ATS still have enough Cadillac DNA as it moves into BMW territory? Yes, I think it does.

Oh, the other thing is a US F1 team. Cadillac?

[Mark_K]

Originally Posted by tony20009

With Cadillac, how does one know with which car to compare? The ATS, XTS and CTS sedans all seem to be comparable to the F30 more or less in terms of size and price. Indeed, looking at Cadillac's website, it wasn't clear to me why one would choose one of these models over the other.

You could start with looking at the weight

[doublevanosrc]

Nice try Cadillac, NEXT!!

[adamsclubs]

What was interesting detail was how well the ATS 6spd AT was able to rev match according to driver's input. This might finally allow many of us who are forced to get an AT, sleep well at night.

[neilvosko]

go drive that creeky cadillac and let me know how its on the rise.

[amdmaxx]

I see $3k cash on the hood before year ends.. GM ALWAYS throws deals in..
0 apr for 5 years, etc..
Waiting for ATS-V edition. that will fix the engine bay issue.. Hoping for Gen V Small block.. 5.5 V8 DI..

competition is great for us, consumers..

Originally Posted by batislav

From Autoblog:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/23/2...-review-video/

we feel the ATS to own is the more potent 3.6-liter V6. Unfortunately, this is where the trouble starts. At $42,290, the V6 ATS is within $895 of its larger brother, the CTS sedan. Throw in a $1,295 Navigation and Surround Sound package, a $600 Cold Weather package, a $395 Advanced Security package and an $845 Driver Awareness package with lane departure warning and you have our $47,325 tester.

Let's be clear: This isn't the car to waltz up and dot BMW's eye. The lackluster entry four-cylinder and loftily priced V6 are stumbling blocks on that path, but knock-out aesthetics, truly world-class technology and a well-executed chassis make the ATS worth a look. Buyers will undoubtedly respond to those attributes, especially given the fact that the 2.0-liter starts within spitting distance of a topped-out Honda Accord.

There are certainly hitches in this sedan's giddy up, but the ATS is an impressive effort from a brand still struggling to shake off the cobwebs of the past three decades. Once GM figures out the engine bay, the 3 Series may have something to worry about. Until then, the ATS will find favor with the crowd that always wanted a CTS but couldn't come up with the cash.

[Hoosiers]

If you don't think the ATS or V development team, or other BMW competitors don't read this website you're being naive.

I agree, the 5.5 V8 DI will cylinder deactivation should be great. Another good thing the future ATS-V has going for it is that it'll more than likely be fed many of the next generation corvette's technologies that are in testing phase now. The M5 placed last behind the Merc and an S7. Never thought I'd see the day. Unfortunately for the M3 (or fortunately for Caddy) is that after these great reviews from the auto press today, GM smells blood. I can see the new regime GM execs in Detroit now as they obsessively watch video of the F30 M3, drinking, and vowing to destroy it with whatever it takes.

[batislav]

Originally Posted by Hoosiers

If you don't think the ATS or V development team, or other BMW competitors don't read this website you're being naive.

I agree, the 5.5 V8 DI will cylinder deactivation should be great. Another good thing the future ATS-V has going for it is that it'll more than likely be fed many of the next generation corvette's technologies that are in testing phase now. The M5 placed last behind the Merc and an S7. Never thought I'd see the day. Unfortunately for the M3 (or fortunately for Caddy) is that after these great reviews from the auto press today, GM smells blood. I can see the new regime GM execs in Detroit now as they obsessively watch video of the F30 M3, drinking, and vowing to destroy it with whatever it takes.

Time out on the M5 failure.

On Top Gear they called it “Meet the new boss” and “Best all round car in the world.”

If GM can produce high quality cars in multiple segments thats great for the consumers, but let's give them time to make a successful ATS-V and other cars before deciding there has been a seismic shift in the automotive world.

[amdmaxx]

Get out of your bunker..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124298/

Originally Posted by thatsagoodpoint

Is the Cadillac ATS still an American car??... Oh it is, hmmm... in that case I still don't want it..

[Cl0ud7]

Originally Posted by amdmaxx

Get out of your bunker..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124298/

That was a good movie

[Hoosiers]

Originally Posted by batislav

Time out on the M5 failure.

On Top Gear they called it “Meet the new boss” and “Best all round car in the world.”

If GM can produce high quality cars in multiple segments thats great for the consumers, but let's give them time to make a successful ATS-V and other cars before deciding there has been a seismic shift in the automotive world.

Definitely no seismic shifts yet and you're right, ATS-V does need to be successful first. However entertaining Top Gear is, that's all it is. It's well done but most people familiar with the industry know they're just entertainment (as I'm actually watching Top Gear lost episodes right now).

[batislav]

Originally Posted by Hoosiers

Definitely no seismic shifts yet and you're right, ATS-V does need to be successful first. However entertaining Top Gear is, that's all it is. It's well done but most people familiar with the industry know they're just entertainment (as I'm actually watching Top Gear lost episodes right now).

I agree Top Gear is more entertainment than journalism, however, they usually are more complimentary of Mercedes vis a vis BMW, so I was quoting them merely as an illustration that the M5 isn't universally considered a failure.

As with Top Gear, I prefer the European version to the American, then again I'm from Europe so I admit there is some inherent bias.

[Ron Scott]

The comparisons on brand forums like this are at best tiring. iPhone is better than Android. Coke better than Pepsi. My dick is bigger than yours. Can we just move on...?

[Hoosiers]

Originally Posted by batislav

I agree Top Gear is more entertainment than journalism, however, they usually are more complimentary of Mercedes vis a vis BMW, so I was quoting them merely as an illustration that the M5 isn't universally considered a failure.

As with Top Gear, I prefer the European version to the American, then again I'm from Europe so I admit there is some inherent bias.

No, you're right, the British version is better. Good trio of guys with different personalities but that's a different conversation.

[gator15]

"Cadillac’s biggest challenge will be to get buyers of German cars to take serious notice of the ATS." -Car and Driver

Judging by the reviews, the ATS seems to be a worthy competitor to the F30. What I question though is the ability of the Cadillac brand to attract a huge swath of the market. I know that there has been this discussion on other forums and many have said that Cadillac is beginning to appeal to different buyers. As a result, I have taken note of every Cadillac I have seen and ignoring the Escalade, every Cadillac driver has been over 65. I don't doubt that Cadillac makes a great car. However, I think they really should have created a new brand to attract a different market segment than the one that they currently attract. Cadillac has a lot of baggage and for all the good that the name brings, it also conjures up a very distinct image that isn't so great. Dodge has done this with the new RAM and SRT lines for its trucks and the Viper, respectively. I hope that for the brand's sake, this will change. However, I am skeptical because even with their new lineup of cars, I have not seen a Cadillac driver that isn't a senior citizen.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by gator15

"Cadillac’s biggest challenge will be to get buyers of German cars to take serious notice of the ATS." -Car and Driver

Judging by the reviews, the ATS seems to be a worthy competitor to the F30. What I question though is the ability of the Cadillac brand to attract a huge swath of the market. I know that there has been this discussion on other forums and many have said that Cadillac is beginning to appeal to different buyers. As a result, I have taken note of every Cadillac I have seen and ignoring the Escalade, every Cadillac driver has been over 65. I don't doubt that Cadillac makes a great car. However, I think they really should have created a new brand to attract a different market segment than the one that they currently attract. Cadillac has a lot of baggage and for all the good that the name brings, it also conjures up a very distinct image that isn't so great. Dodge has done this with the new RAM and SRT lines for its trucks and the Viper, respectively. I hope that for the brand's sake, this will change. However, I am skeptical because even with their new lineup of cars, I have not seen a Cadillac driver that isn't a senior citizen.

But the same can be said about BMW. The average driver may not be a senior citizen, but I do see a lot of douchebags and girls driving them. A lot of people avoid BMW for this very reason. I think this ATS and the new upcoming CTS will change the image at Cadillac a lot. And once those new V versions come out, BMW and whomever else, better be ready.