[RPM90]

What's really striking is how good the A4 is.
From the review, in terms of handling and driving the A4 didn't have as many complaints as the 328i.

Given how much more the A4 weighs it certainly holds it's own for daily driving acceleration. It gets beat by the 328i decisively at higher speeds though.
The Audi's 2.0T is an awesomely torquey engine as it really helps the heavier AWD stay very close to the 328i to 60 and the 1/4 mile. But, above 95mph BMW's 2.0T has a distinct HP advantage, and Audi's AWD friction slows it down.
BTW, look at the trans gearing spec's and the A4 require a 2nd shift to hit 60 where the 328i only has to complete 1 shift to 60.

The other thing not mentioned about the A4 is the new 8spd trans and it's shift quickness. Seems in this A4 the trans shifts just fine and quick enough to garner no complaints. I tested a new A4 sport with the 8spd auto and that A4's trans was SLOW as molasses in up and downshift in manual mode. In full auto mode it was very smooth, as smooth as the 328i. But in manual mode the A4 I drove was extremely slow, making me wonder if there was something wrong with it.
Given the comments in this test, seems the A4 I drove did have something wrong with it's new trans in manual mode.

I think the 328i in this test should have been dinged MUCH more for it's lack of braking. Seriously, 191 ft. from 60mph? That's pathetic, down right sad for a sport sedan. It took the 328i nearly 30 feet longer to stop than the MB C250, and the A4 beat it by 25 feet! That is substantial. Sure, better tires would help that, but BMW should know better than to put those tires on a car with the BMW logo on it.

The 328i in this test looks like a sport line. Why does it have all season tires?
I thought all sport pkg. 3's come with 18" summer performance tires?
On BMW's website, there is no option to spec all season tires with a sport line 328i.
I hope C&D didn't just think these were all season tires. It would surely be sad if the braking numbers were really from the 18" summer performance tires.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by RPM90

W

The other thing not mentioned about the A4 is the new 8spd trans and it's shift quickness. Seems in this A4 the trans shifts just fine and quick enough to garner no complaints. I tested a new A4 sport with the 8spd auto and that A4's trans was SLOW as molasses in up and downshift in manual mode. In full auto mode it was very smooth, as smooth as the 328i. But in manual mode the A4 I drove was extremely slow, making me wonder if there was something wrong with it.
Given the comments in this test, seems the A4 I drove did have something wrong with it's new trans in manual mode.

Or you were correct and C&D made the test closer than it needed to be... My bet is you are correct as I have had the same opinion of the Audi trip over itself tronic.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Q4P

If one has experience driving an E90 with sport package and then getting in and testing out the steering feedback and feel of an F30, then I have no idea how it could not be disappointing. It doesn't matter what the mags say, the feel isn't there, its no longer a hydraulic system and could never be the same. It's sad that one of the key things that made me buy my '07 335i outside of a stellar engine was the steering feel and response and that is no longer there... I was looking forward to this new car but it's not for me. This car is a lot closer to a Lexus IS in driving qualities than it is to a classic BMW, it's sad BMW lost their roots. This is just my opinion but I am sure there are hundreds that share my sentiments.

Can't compare the EPS in an F10 because that is a large boat luxury sedan where steering response won't be nearly as much of a priority as it is in a sport sedan.

True, steering feel was a great aspect of a BMW 3.
However, I don't dislike the steering feel in the new 3.
Yes, it's a bit lighter, but heavy-ness isn't all there is to steering.
My experience, and according to this article, the steering is still very precise, and I value that a lot. The precision is still there even if there is less heft to it.

Also, tires make a HUGE difference in steering feel and especially in braking performance. I don't know why BMW gave C&D a 328i with all season tires. I couldn't find an all season option when building a 328i sport line, and that 328i in the C&D article looks like a sport line.

Have you driven a new F30? I think you should before making a judgement based on just reading these articles.
In real driving, the 328i sport I drove is excellent. It had proper summer performance tires. The steering was great. Auto trans was super smooth and very fast up or down, in manual mode or full auto.
The N20 idled smoothly and quietly, and most importantly, it builds excellent power at low and mid-high revs. It may feel a bit course to some when comparing it directly to the NA 3.0, but taken on it's own it's an excellent small turbo engine with smoothness that belies it's inline 4 cylinder configuration.

Dissecting all the individual components of course some fault can be made, as with any car. But, taken as a whole and how everything works together the new 3 is all BMW, when optioned for best performance, meaning with sport suspension and proper tires.

There has been a lot said of the new electric assist steering.
However, it's still one of the best applications of this ever growing technology. I think a lot of the negatives is due to simply being a change, more so than anything truly lacking. This is still a BMW rack and pinion steering rack, as good as before. The major difference is that the power assist comes in the form of electric assist instead of continuous hydraulic fluid. So, the assist is the major difference, not the actual steering rack. Given the accurate and precise steering the F30 has, I think the whole "feel" thing is more about greater isolation or insulation to keep things quieter, more so than an actual loss in "feel".
That's just my opinion though. I like the steering and feel just fine.
My E46 325i had heavier steering, which I loved. My current 135i too has heavier feel. The F30 328i I drove wasn't lacking in steering in my experience. I do think the issue is being overblown.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

it is, but all the models they're testing have so much additional equipment

Not true.

Even with same equipment, the F30 328i is heavier than the E90.
The F30 335i is lighter than the E90 335i.

The early comments about the new F30 kept talking about how BMW made the 3 bigger yet didn't add any weight.
That is only true for the 335i, not the 328i.

The F30 335i is about 11lbs lighter than the E90 335i.
Overall, both models did keep the weight down considering how much bigger the new 3 is.

Kept in perspective BMW did very well in the weight department.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by svache

The eye wants something as well and the ATS lost big time in that sense alone. I wouldn't even consider the ATS if it was a 1000 times better car than the F30.

I'm really looking forward to the new ATS.
I'll have my new BMW before the ATS is for sale, but if it's driving dynamics are as good as the specs look, then it will be a contender for my next car 3 years from now.

How a car looks is very subjective though. Some people don't like how some BMW's look. Many people like the look of the CTS, some don't.
I didn't know if I would like the new ATS as the pictures looked a bit bland. But I saw it at the Chicago auto show and I think it looks great both inside and outside. It's a very unique design and I applaud Cadillac for doing a daring and dynamic design that doesn't look like any other brand out there. It's distinct and unique.
Some will hate it, some will love it. But that goes for nearly all automobile designs. I didn't like the early E90, the redesign was minimal but made a HUGE difference to my eye.
I love my 135i, but many BMW fans hate how it looks.
To each his own, for sure.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Q4P

This may be but the soul of the car is gone. Give me back the hydraulic steering, take away the ridiculous start / stop and give me a DCT option via a 335IS of some sort and I am back in an F30. I will not and cannot give into to that 8 Speed tranny which simple has too many gears and a steering system that gives me no enjoyment in driving the car.

I don't think you've driven an F30, even though you seem to have distinct opinions on it.

The new 8spd is simply AMAZING. I haven't driven any automatic that is as quick or responsive as this new 8 spd. It is downright amazing how this could be a slushbox automatic. I'm a MT fan and always for a MT version.
But, this new auto trans is so good I am going with it instead of a MT.
As good as Audi's DSG is, and I've driven a number of them, this new automatic is quicker and smoother.
I haven't driven BMW's DCT. I've heard great things about it, and I've read some owners experience as being not so good, especially when taking off. I love Audi's DSG and I'm sure BMW's DCT is as good if not better. Still, in comparison to the DSG in the S4 I drove right before driving the 328i, the 328i 8spd was as fast, if not a tad quicker, than the fast DSG in the S4. More so, the 8spd in the 328i was smoother than the S4 dual clutch. That truly surprised me. It was truly a revelation, as I couldn't believe a slush box auto can be this quick.

8 speeds is only too much if the trans is constantly hunting for a gear.
In my extended test drive that never happened. 7th and 8th are
over-drive gears that are the reason why the new 3 can achieve such better MPG than the E90 could.
8 gears does sound like too many, and before test driving I too thought it's too many. Drive it, then decide.

I don't like stop/start either. In actual driving, I didn't like it. It's not as bad as I imagined, but it didn't do anything to change my opinion of it.
With the small 2.0T, start up is noticeable and adds delay to take off, and thus I don't like it.
Still, it's just an extra button push to turn if off when you start the engine.
Not a deal killer in the least for me.

I've already commented on the steering.
Drive it first, then decide.

I was much more put off by how hard it was to buckle the seat belt as the female part sits way too low and far back to make it an easy buckle for me.
The new sports seats though, HEAVEN! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the new sport seats.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

I hope BMW is listening to all these numb steering complaints, they are coming from everyone. Hopefully a steering update will come soon similar to the 2000-2001 E46 3 series update.

YES! They did do that.
Thanks for the reminder.

But, if they do make a change it'll be just to add some heavy-ness back in as they did with the E46.
Even though that won't change the actual steering, I'm sure people will love it, and proclaim that the change is adding "feel".

I won't disagree that many BMW drivers do prefer a heavier feel.
I loved the feel in my 2003 E46 325i.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I don't think you've driven an F30, even though you seem to have distinct opinions on it.

The new 8spd is simply AMAZING. I haven't driven any automatic that is as quick or responsive as this new 8 spd. It is downright amazing how this could be a slushbox automatic. I'm a MT fan and always for a MT version.
But, this new auto trans is so good I am going with it instead of a MT.
As good as Audi's DSG is, and I've driven a number of them, this new automatic is quicker and smoother.
I haven't driven BMW's DCT. I've heard great things about it, and I've read some owners experience as being not so good, especially when taking off. I love Audi's DSG and I'm sure BMW's DCT is as good if not better. Still, in comparison to the DSG in the S4 I drove right before driving the 328i, the 328i 8spd was as fast, if not a tad quicker, than the fast DSG in the S4. More so, the 8spd in the 328i was smoother than the S4 dual clutch. That truly surprised me. It was truly a revelation, as I couldn't believe a slush box auto can be this quick.

8 speeds is only too much if the trans is constantly hunting for a gear.
In my extended test drive that never happened. 7th and 8th are
over-drive gears that are the reason why the new 3 can achieve such better MPG than the E90 could.
8 gears does sound like too many, and before test driving I too thought it's too many. Drive it, then decide.

I don't like stop/start either. In actual driving, I didn't like it. It's not as bad as I imagined, but it didn't do anything to change my opinion of it.
With the small 2.0T, start up is noticeable and adds delay to take off, and thus I don't like it.
Still, it's just an extra button push to turn if off when you start the engine.
Not a deal killer in the least for me.

I've already commented on the steering.
Drive it first, then decide.

I was much more put off by how hard it was to buckle the seat belt as the female part sits way too low and far back to make it an easy buckle for me.
The new sports seats though, HEAVEN! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the new sport seats.

Yea, the 8 speed is incredible but it does have to many gears, after a few weeks you will get tired of having to go through all the gears, 5-8 are very similar...

still deffenitly worth getting imo, especially the sport auto option

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by RPM90

True, steering feel was a great aspect of a BMW 3.
However, I don't dislike the steering feel in the new 3.
Yes, it's a bit lighter, but heavy-ness isn't all there is to steering.
My experience, and according to this article, the steering is still very precise, and I value that a lot. The precision is still there even if there is less heft to it.

Also, tires make a HUGE difference in steering feel and especially in braking performance. I don't know why BMW gave C&D a 328i with all season tires. I couldn't find an all season option when building a 328i sport line, and that 328i in the C&D article looks like a sport line.

Have you driven a new F30? I think you should before making a judgement based on just reading these articles.
In real driving, the 328i sport I drove is excellent. It had proper summer performance tires. The steering was great. Auto trans was super smooth and very fast up or down, in manual mode or full auto.
The N20 idled smoothly and quietly, and most importantly, it builds excellent power at low and mid-high revs. It may feel a bit course to some when comparing it directly to the NA 3.0, but taken on it's own it's an excellent small turbo engine with smoothness that belies it's inline 4 cylinder configuration.

Dissecting all the individual components of course some fault can be made, as with any car. But, taken as a whole and how everything works together the new 3 is all BMW, when optioned for best performance, meaning with sport suspension and proper tires.

There has been a lot said of the new electric assist steering.
However, it's still one of the best applications of this ever growing technology. I think a lot of the negatives is due to simply being a change, more so than anything truly lacking. This is still a BMW rack and pinion steering rack, as good as before. The major difference is that the power assist comes in the form of electric assist instead of continuous hydraulic fluid. So, the assist is the major difference, not the actual steering rack. Given the accurate and precise steering the F30 has, I think the whole "feel" thing is more about greater isolation or insulation to keep things quieter, more so than an actual loss in "feel".
That's just my opinion though. I like the steering and feel just fine.
My E46 325i had heavier steering, which I loved. My current 135i too has heavier feel. The F30 328i I drove wasn't lacking in steering in my experience. I do think the issue is being overblown.

Originally Posted by RPM90

I don't think you've driven an F30, even though you seem to have distinct opinions on it.

The new 8spd is simply AMAZING. I haven't driven any automatic that is as quick or responsive as this new 8 spd. It is downright amazing how this could be a slushbox automatic. I'm a MT fan and always for a MT version.
But, this new auto trans is so good I am going with it instead of a MT.
As good as Audi's DSG is, and I've driven a number of them, this new automatic is quicker and smoother.
I haven't driven BMW's DCT. I've heard great things about it, and I've read some owners experience as being not so good, especially when taking off. I love Audi's DSG and I'm sure BMW's DCT is as good if not better. Still, in comparison to the DSG in the S4 I drove right before driving the 328i, the 328i 8spd was as fast, if not a tad quicker, than the fast DSG in the S4. More so, the 8spd in the 328i was smoother than the S4 dual clutch. That truly surprised me. It was truly a revelation, as I couldn't believe a slush box auto can be this quick.

8 speeds is only too much if the trans is constantly hunting for a gear.
In my extended test drive that never happened. 7th and 8th are
over-drive gears that are the reason why the new 3 can achieve such better MPG than the E90 could.
8 gears does sound like too many, and before test driving I too thought it's too many. Drive it, then decide.

I don't like stop/start either. In actual driving, I didn't like it. It's not as bad as I imagined, but it didn't do anything to change my opinion of it.
With the small 2.0T, start up is noticeable and adds delay to take off, and thus I don't like it.
Still, it's just an extra button push to turn if off when you start the engine.
Not a deal killer in the least for me.

I've already commented on the steering.
Drive it first, then decide.

I was much more put off by how hard it was to buckle the seat belt as the female part sits way too low and far back to make it an easy buckle for me.
The new sports seats though, HEAVEN! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the new sport seats.

I have driven the F30 335i on 3 different occasions now. I would never comment on a car by reading on it in an article. The only car website I trust is Jalopnik because they don't care about sponsors and are not wavered in any way. Car and Driver, Motortrend, Consumer Reports and everyone else is a joke...

My opinion stands as it has...

The new 8 speed tranny is lightning quick and very smooth once it gets going but unfortunately it did get lost and was a little slow to react after pedal input (especially in comfort mode). The 6 speed just had less decisions to make so IMHO, was the better tranny (it was also stronger as well in terms of TQ capabilities). When I buy a 55K car, fuel efficiency is last on my mind and it should be on anyone elses who uses their head and buys such an expensive car.

The steering is straight up terrible... there is no way anyone could sway me from that one. The old system was what made the car different than any other on the road and when driving it, it felt as if the car was incredibly solid and provided a ton of feedback. Today's EPS system is like driving a RWD Accord... I promise that if an Accord was made in RWD, it would feel identical. The steering response is now closer to a Mustang which made me cry the first time I drove it. Let's just put it this way... if BMW continues on this path, I will never be in a BMW again. The new M3 is their last chance to keep me as a customer... for that to happen, I need an awesome DCT tranny, 450 HP and my good old hydraulic steering.