[rickinaz]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

You want to be afraid to go up against the big corporations, then use their parts. If you aren't afraid, there are better choices out there.

Have you actually ever gone up against a big corporation? Here is how it would work: 1) they deny your claim. 2) The ball is now in your court. So...what is your next move? I mean, EXACTLY what is your next move?

I'm not talking about being afraid, I'm being realistic. Also, I'm assuming that the manufacturer is being realistic as well. They designed an engine to produce 300 horsepower stock, and developed a MPPK kit that raises it by 35 horsepower. An aftermarket firm much more substantially raises the boost. A piston is fried. What do you think BMW's reaction is going to be? Good luck with the "needs to be proven 100%" approach.

[East River Guide]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Any failures attributed to said parts must be proven without a shadow of a doubt to be the direct cause to impact warranty coverage and burden of proof is on the manufacturer.

Can you point me to some legal authority for that?

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by rickinaz

Have you actually ever gone up against a big corporation? Here is how it would work: 1) they deny your claim. 2) The ball is now in your court. So...what is your next move? I mean, EXACTLY what is your next move?

I'm not talking about being afraid, I'm being realistic. Also, I'm assuming that the manufacturer is being realistic as well. They designed an engine to produce 300 horsepower stock, and developed a MPPK kit that raises it by 35 horsepower. An aftermarket firm much more substantially raises the boost. A piston is fried. What do you think BMW's reaction is going to be? Good luck with the "needs to be proven 100%" approach.

Actually, yes, I have gone up against them. Several of them. And 99% of the time, when you bring up the Magnusson Moss Act, they'll change their tune. If they don't, you have no choice but to press charges, which any attorney can do, and the company is responsible for your legal fees. I played this game with GM back in the early 2000's and Chrysler after that. I'd have no qualms doing the same thing with BMW if necessary.

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by East River Guide

Can you point me to some legal authority for that?

Magnusson Moss Warranty Act. Its in there someplace.

Heres the Dummy version.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...ty-intact.html

[East River Guide]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Magnusson Moss Warranty Act. Its in there someplace.

Heres the Dummy version.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...ty-intact.html

Where?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Actually, yes, I have gone up against them. Several of them. And 99% of the time, when you bring up the Magnusson Moss Act, they'll change their tune. If they don't, you have no choice but to press charges, which any attorney can do, and the company is responsible for your legal fees. I played this game with GM back in the early 2000's and Chrysler after that. I'd have no qualms doing the same thing with BMW if necessary.

Pressing charges? That is in a criminal case. You mean sue the manufacturer right? What exactly did you press charges err sue for and win?

Still doesn't sound like a lot of fun and very time consuming.

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by minn19

Pressing charges? That is in a criminal case. You mean sue the manufacturer right? What exactly did you press charges err sue for and win?

Still doesn't sound like a lot of fun and very time consuming.

I'm not a lawyer, I don't know what its called. They sued the manufacturers and got the repairs covered. I went through 3 transmissions on my Grand Prix GTP and 4 transfer cases on my Jeep SRT8. Only thing that ever didn't end up getting covered was the tranny in the Jeep, because that was clearly a case of me over powering it.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

I'm not a lawyer, I don't know what its called. They sued the manufacturers and got the repairs covered. I went through 3 transmissions on my Grand Prix GTP and 4 transfer cases on my Jeep SRT8. Only thing that ever didn't end up getting covered was the tranny in the Jeep, because that was clearly a case of me over powering it.

3 Transmissions? And you won each time? Congrats, you must of had a good lawyer. Sounds like a big headache. Got to admit I'm skeptical, but I know I'm just some random internet guy and you don't care what I think.

[F32Fleet]

MM doesn't necessarily protect you from everything. If a part is designed differently from OEM you're SOL. Ex. You use an oiled air filter and bugger up your MAF with oil.

MM does prevent a dealer from denying warranty on part X if it's not related to mod y. Think blown turbo but you have custom painted brake calipers.

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by minn19

3 Transmissions? And you won each time? Congrats, you must of had a good lawyer. Sounds like a big headache. Got to admit I'm skeptical, but I know I'm just some random internet guy and you don't care what I think.

The first 2 times they didn't even question it. GM knew that the 4T65e was weak. The dealership would replace them regularly. The third time got a little messy. We ended up going to arbitration under the Lemon Law at the end. Ended up keeping the car, but they promised to fix it.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

The first 2 times they didn't even question it. GM knew that the 4T65e was weak. The dealership would replace them regularly. The third time got a little messy. We ended up going to arbitration under the Lemon Law at the end. Ended up keeping the car, but they promised to fix it.

Glad it worked out for you. I'm not skeptical about a GM tranny being crap .

[FC4]

Originally Posted by rickinaz

They designed an engine to produce 300 horsepower stock, and developed a MPPK kit that raises it by 35 horsepower. An aftermarket firm much more substantially raises the boost. A piston is fried. What do you think BMW's reaction is going to be?

Care to show me an instance of an N55 with a fried piston after a non-MPPK tune, or any sort of catastrophic engine failure for that matter? People seem to believe that the second you touch something, suddenly the N55 turns into a 13B-REW and grenades every time you press the throttle.

The good thing is that if someone is not capable of checking log parameters and making sure everything is fine on a given setup, then you know the MPPK is right for them.

[rickinaz]

Originally Posted by FC4

People seem to believe that the second you touch something, suddenly the N55 turns into a 13B-REW and grenades every time you press the throttle.

Look, it's simple business along with an actuarial engineering analysis. Manufacturers of performance cars weigh the amount of stress that an engine can take, long-term, against the projected number of failures. The marketing department, all things being equal, would prefer more horsepower. Those paying the warranty claims would prefer more reliability. When you introduce an outside boost-enhancement, but then don't have to pay for any mishaps, you should expect some push back from BMW. Like many others, I don't want to play the game of removing parts before service, or lawyering up.

I always find it curious why otherwise honest people feel that it is ethical to play the let's-remove-the-parts-before-I-bring-it-in game. Seems shady.

[ronanz]

*SUBSCRIBED*

[FC4]

Originally Posted by rickinaz

Look, it's simple business along with an actuarial engineering analysis. Manufacturers of performance cars weigh the amount of stress that an engine can take, long-term, against the projected number of failures. The marketing department, all things being equal, would prefer more horsepower. Those paying the warranty claims would prefer more reliability. When you introduce an outside boost-enhancement, but then don't have to pay for any mishaps, you should expect some push back from BMW. Like many others, I don't want to play the game of removing parts before service, or lawyering up.

I always find it curious why otherwise honest people feel that it is ethical to play the let's-remove-the-parts-before-I-bring-it-in game. Seems shady.

Agreed. But I fail to see your point.

Cars are built to certain requirements and limits, primarily for efficiency, emissions, and legal purposes...but they still leave a lot of room for improvement on the table, regardless of what it is. If you know what you're doing and do it correctly, meaning you're not some broke 17 year old kid in the ghetto Jerry-rigging everything, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. My GTR makes 240 WHP more than it did from the factory and the engine is completely stock. The engine or turbos blowing are the least of my worries.

The whole hiding mods thing from dealers is moronic and I've said it all along. I don't waste any of my time removing parts before any of my cars go in to the dealer. People seem to think that the second you start adding proven, tested aftermarket parts on a car that it starts breaking every day. That's simply not true, and aftermarket parts are not causing any catastrophic failures resulting in people conning dealers out of repairing. There's just no evidence of that.

[rickinaz]

Originally Posted by FC4

Agreed. But I fail to see your point.

Cars are built to certain requirements and limits, primarily for efficiency, emissions, and legal purposes...but they still leave a lot of room for improvement on the table, regardless of what it is. If you know what you're doing and do it correctly, meaning you're not some broke 17 year old kid in the ghetto Jerry-rigging everything, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. My GTR makes 240 WHP more than it did from the factory and the engine is completely stock. The engine or turbos blowing are the least of my worries.

The whole hiding mods thing from dealers is moronic and I've said it all along. I don't waste any of my time removing parts before any of my cars go in to the dealer. People seem to think that the second you start adding proven, tested aftermarket parts on a car that it starts breaking every day. That's simply not true, and aftermarket parts are not causing any catastrophic failures resulting in people conning dealers out of repairing. There's just no evidence of that.

Can't disagree with you. Makes sense. Except, if someone does go overboard, they need to fund the repair themselves.

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by rickinaz

Can't disagree with you. Makes sense. Except, if someone does go overboard, they need to fund the repair themselves.

I really don't foresee many guys going overboard with these cars. They're turbo limited, so to go much above 400, its gonna take replacing the turbo, which is built into the exhaust manifold. Considering that 85-90% of these cars are leased, who wants to go through the trouble to just have to undo it again in 3 years?

I sure don't. Intake, piggyback, downpipe, intercooler, maybe chargepipes and I'm done. Just easy stuff that can come off and be resold when the lease is up.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

I really don't foresee many guys going overboard with these cars. They're turbo limited, so to go much above 400, its gonna take replacing the turbo, which is built into the exhaust manifold. Considering that 85-90% of these cars are leased, who wants to go through the trouble to just have to undo it again in 3 years?

I sure don't. Intake, piggyback, downpipe, intercooler, maybe chargepipes and I'm done. Just easy stuff that can come off and be resold when the lease is up.

Exactly.

[kingc0bra]

Originally Posted by rickinaz

Look, it's simple business along with an actuarial engineering analysis. Manufacturers of performance cars weigh the amount of stress that an engine can take, long-term, against the projected number of failures. The marketing department, all things being equal, would prefer more horsepower. Those paying the warranty claims would prefer more reliability. When you introduce an outside boost-enhancement, but then don't have to pay for any mishaps, you should expect some push back from BMW. Like many others, I don't want to play the game of removing parts before service, or lawyering up.

I always find it curious why otherwise honest people feel that it is ethical to play the let's-remove-the-parts-before-I-bring-it-in game. Seems shady.

+10000

If you're going to buy a 300hp car to change parts around and raise the hp to 400/500+ then you should be responsible for everything that breaks in it.

If you want more power, use M performance parts. If that isn't enough, buy a faster car to begin with if you want the warranty.

People complain too much, you can't have the best of both worlds, and clearly if you try doing that you're somehow cheating the system, but Karma will always catch up...

[kingc0bra]

As a side note, did BMW release any other performance parts to go along side the MPPK?

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by kingc0bra

+10000

If you're going to buy a 300hp car to change parts around and raise the hp to 400/500+ then you should be responsible for everything that breaks in it.

If you want more power, use M performance parts. If that isn't enough, buy a faster car to begin with if you want the warranty.

People complain too much, you can't have the best of both worlds, and clearly if you try doing that you're somehow cheating the system, but Karma will always catch up...

You never have enough power. I raise my power on everything, from my little 150hp Neon, to my 556hp CTS-V and 555hp X5M. If BMW would sell me an AWD M3 or M5, maybe I'd consider leaving them mostly alone. If Dodge would sell me an AWD Hellcat, I'd consider it even more. Or more likely not. Need an intake and tune on everything I drive. I even did them on my moms Maxima. Stock is for boring people.

[rickinaz]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Stock is for boring people.

I agree totally, but you have to pay to play. And, if you modify your vehicle, and still expect warranty coverage, you take a risk. It sounds like you have been very successful in legal actions against Fortune 100 companies. Personally, I don't feel like the odds would be stacked in my favor, so if I modify my vehicles, I either go with manufacturer's performance products, or make the assumption that my warranty could be voided.

Read this thread ( http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1002236 ) to see how non-manufacturer product warranty claims can go awry when someone goes toe-to-toe with corporate America. I'm sure that this guy would have been MUCH happier with MPPK. His wallet is $3K lighter.